How would old and young King Piccolo do in the 23rd tournament?

[Power Level Guy]

But Kaio-sama knows that he can increase it. It’s a technique that can go beyond double.

Sure, but he's not advocating for that being the case here. He's simply saying Kaioken in general amplifies your power many times over.

Chapter: 227 (DBZ 33), P1.3, P2.1
Kuririn: “Guh…Goku, how’d you do that? Was that something you were taught by Lord Kaio?
Goku: “Yeah. It’s called Kaio-Ken!”
Goku: “You control all the ki in your body…momentarily amplifying it. If you get it right, your power, speed, destructive force, and defensive force all become many times greater…”


The cast doesn't view things in regards to battle power. Goku is barely familiar with the scouter system.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Yeah, they don’t view it by numbers but they can still feel the Ki, so they can still tell if some-thing is greater.

Just like I said before Kaio-Ken in-general can increase your power by several-times, a double is the minimum boost with Kaio-Ken (if you perform a Kaio-Ken right).

 

[Power Level Guy]

Just like I said before Kaio-Ken in-general can increase your power by several-times, a double is the minimum boost with Kaio-Ken (if you perform a Kaio-Ken right).

It definitely can, but I'm saying that isn't what the intent of the dialogue is here.

Goku got many times stronger from training with Korin, do you include that in?

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Why not?

 

[Power Level Guy]

Why not?

How strong is Roshi?

 

[Fantastische Hure]

No idea. I don’t have any numbers. Which version of Kame Sen’nin are you talking about?

 

[Power Level Guy]

No idea. I don’t have any numbers. Which version of Kame Sen’nin are you talking about?

The 21st Budokai Roshi who equals Goku. You don't use the scouter numbers from BoZ?

 

[Fantastische Hure]

I see. I don’t have any numbers, period.

 

[Power Level Guy]

I see. I don’t have any numbers, period.

Must be an easy life. Lol

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Is that passive-aggressiveness or genuine? I can’t tell l0l.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Is that passive-aggressiveness or genuine? I can’t tell l0l.

Haha, it's a joke. The number-less debater is free from all bias. It's such a different world for the numbers guy.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

It’s good that way. You can just say such & such used 1% of their power & you don’t need numbers to prove others wrong. Ha

 

[SSJ2]

Sure, that would probably be the minimalist view. But yeah, the numbers I have set portray the accurate feeling of how the story goes. King Piccolo feels head and shoulders above Old Pd.

King Piccolo’s muscles triple is size, bro is an absolute behemoth of muscle.

This is not an area to skimp imo, this is a time to give Young PD his credit where it’s due.

The lifespan loss is unknown and even Piano assumes it’s Piccolo’s full power.

Put it this way, King Piccolo’s Initial power should be substantial enough that one could presume it’s his actual full power, then the reveal that he’s on at 40% power is shocking and hits the narrative properly.

He needs to be completely established at full power initially and the. Boom, the shocker is added. It makes sense, right?

I got everything else figured out now at this point. 22nd Budokai and King Piccolo Sagas have been my strong point for a while.

You're solid but I'll find some cracks in your list!

 

[Power Level Guy]

You're solid but I'll find some cracks in your list!

Hah you’ve found many before and all have been patched. Getting harder and harder to find any now.

 

[SSJ2]

We'll see bro!

 

[ahill]

Can he beat Krillin or Yamcha?

That's interesting to imagine. I'd always wonder about that too. We will never know for sure, but from my scaling, I'd say old King Piccolo would struggle badly vs Yamcha... Maybe he could beat Yamcha but it'd be very tough. I'd still say the strongest character he could beat would be likely Cyborg Tao Pai Pai.

As for young Piccolo Daimao, he'd beat Kuririn and stop at Tenshinhan. Kuririn and Yamcha were amazed at Goku's speed initially vs Tenshinhan even though that speed was the same one he had fighting young Piccolo when he was >= young Piccolo post water. Kuririn was even like "does Tenshinhan consider that speed slow?"... Or Yamcha asked that, but it's the same. Still, they could see Goku when he made it a point to move so fast no one could see him, which is why I think Kuririn and Yamcha (who could see Goku's movements [ when he was suppressed to ~ the speed young Piccolo Daimao had], while Kami couldn't see Piccolo Jr and Goku's movements later on when they were at FP) are likely above old Piccolo Daimao IMO. Young Piccolo was said to be so much above old Piccolo that there would be no comparison between their powers, so I think old Piccolo wouldn't be able to follow post-sacred water Goku's movements... I guess... Can't be sure.

But yeah Kuririn and Yamcha still treat that ~young Piccolo Daimao type speed as impressive, though Tenshinhan can deal with that and be faster and stronger, so young Piccolo could beat Yamcha and Kuririn but Tenshinhan would be the limit. Young Piccolo has a more established range.

 

[ahill]

It’s good that way. You can just say such & such used 1% of their power & you don’t need numbers to prove others wrong. Ha

TBH I like power levels for fun but I don't even think about them anymore when giving my opinions in topics that power levels didn't exist. I think thinking numerically don't get you closer to a "better answer". It kinda... Limits the way you can look at the story if you try to assign a number to everyone.

I think that building tiers of power, more like an A > B > C system going by the story makes answer more accurate than trying to figure things out numerically. Numbers can blind the way some interpret the story, even.

And I think some characters just can't have their levels assessed. Like, we can't know how strong 23rd Budokai Chi Chi was. Or Chaozu. Their placements are too vague to even have an idea...

Cyborg Tao, we can infer to be way stronger than 22nd Budokai Tenshinhan since he was sure he'd kill them all. But beyond that, it's kinda... Who knows?

Kuririn and Yamcha I'd say have a cap which is < post sacred water Goku and old Piccolo due to my reasoning above. They are still >>> 22nd Budokai Goku/Ten as they are above Cyborg Tao Pai Pai. But exactly how strong, that's tough to know. I would guess that the fact they could follow Goku's movements when it was around post water Goku's speed (while Chi Chi and Roshi could not) would imply they aren't worlds below young Piccolo/post water Goku. In this stance, numbers come a little in hand, in the sense no one from the Ginyu force (except the Captain) could follow 60k Goku's movements while being ~40k themselves. So I take that to mean they are >> 66% of young Piccolo, which would likely place them at least ~ old Piccolo Daimao's power imo. I think they're stronger even, but I can't quite prove that...