If Piccolo would've decided to train on Rosat as opposed of fusing w/Kami?

[AngelBorninHell]

How much stronger would he have gotten? Considering he would have no training partners?

 

[SSJ2]

It's debatable that he would've gotten close to his Kamiccolo level of power. He just trained hard with Goku for 3 years, who was at a temporary wall until he figured out FPSSJ. Piccolo was probably at a wall too. I'd say he reaches SSJ Vegeta level at absolute best.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Piccolo is the same as the humans. Everyone is maxxed out by the Androids Saga. So are the Saiyans. Remember, they needed to go BEYOND Super Saiyan, because they were already at their limits as is.

 

[AngelBorninHell]

It's debatable that he would've gotten close to his Kamiccolo level of power. He just trained hard with Goku for 3 years, who was at a temporary wall until he figured out FPSSJ. Piccolo was probably at a wall too. I'd say he reaches SSJ Vegeta level at absolute best.

I'd honestly like the idea of Piccolo being equal w/SSJ Vegeta (mainly because I'd consider interesting and a missed opportunity them being rivals who're always competitive w/Goku), but, I find quite hard of being the case. Vegeta considered impossible for a Namekian to be stronger than Super Saiyan despite of seeing Piccolo in action vs Gero.

Chapter: 364 (DBZ 170), P11.7
Vegeta: “The battle power I sensed then really did surpass mine, as a Super Saiyan…I'm-impossible…He’s just a Namekian...”

Some people are fine with Piccolo being 70~80% of SSJ Goku and Vegeta, but that line on itself dismisses that fact.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Vegeta is talking about maxed out Super Saiyan, not initial Super Saiyan.

Piccolo without a doubt clears Goku and Freeza on Namek easily.

 

[AngelBorninHell]

Piccolo obviously's leagues above Namek, otherwise him questioning himself if they became too strong shouldn't be one possibility, I'm talking strictly of Healthy Goku and Vegeta. He shouldn't be more than 66% of Vegeta, which's where I have him.

There's also Krillin making one point of Piccolo becoming Super Namek if he fuses w/Kami. Super Saiyan's treated like something else during this point of story.

Chapter: 355 (DBZ 161), P11.5-7
Kuririn: “I heard from the Great Elder on Planet Namek that if only God and Piccolo hadn’t spit in two, he wouldn’t lose to the Saiyans…In other words, I think Piccolo’s gone so that he and God can return to being one person. [ ] God and the Devil will merge and return to being a Namekian warrior. What’s more, Piccolo’s greatly improved, so he’ll become an extraordinary warrior. If Goku and the others are Super Saiyans, then Piccolo will be a Super Namekian.”

 

[Power Level Guy]

Piccolo obviously's leagues above Namek, otherwise him questioning himself if they became too strong shouldn't be one possibility, I'm talking strictly of Healthy Goku and Vegeta. He shouldn't be more than 66% of Vegeta, which's were I have him.

There's also Krillin making one point of Piccolo becoming Super Namek if he fuses w/Kami. Super Saiyan's treated like something else during this point of story.

Chapter: 355 (DBZ 161), P11.5-7
Kuririn: “I heard from the Great Elder on Planet Namek that if only God and Piccolo hadn’t spit in two, he wouldn’t lose to the Saiyans…In other words, I think Piccolo’s gone so that he and God can return to being one person. [ ] God and the Devil will merge and return to being a Namekian warrior. What’s more, Piccolo’s greatly improved, so he’ll become an extraordinary warrior. If Goku and the others are Super Saiyans, then Piccolo will be a Super Namekian.”

Vegeta is blinded by his superiority complex. Trunks is nearly rivaling if not rivaling, Goku is right there with him but he thinks he’s woefully inferior.

Vegeta’s statements need to be taken in the proper context of his delusional thinking process. The Super Saiyan restored his pride but also made him less realistic. It’s in character and makes perfect sense considering the legendary nature of the form, how prestigious his standing was among his people and so on.

 

[AngelBorninHell]

Vegeta is blinded by his superiority complex. Trunks is nearly rivaling if not rivaling, Goku is right there with him but he thinks he’s woefully inferior.

Vegeta’s statements need to be taken in the proper context of his delusional thinking process. The Super Saiyan restored his pride but also made him less realistic. It’s in character and makes perfect sense considering the legendary nature of the form, how prestigious his standing was among his people and so on.

Yes, but there's also Trunks calling Piccolo "battle ki" on his way of getting where Piccolo and the others were, and when he's first sensed Kamiccolo's ki he noticed how completely different his ki's. Which means he's starting getting respect of Piccolo.

Goku also only took into reference Vegeta's defeat against android as one paremeter of saying he can't win, not Trunks or Piccolo. Few statements which makes Piccolo looks like a big dog is when Tenshinhan grouped him w/Vegeta, but that's something never happened again.

Piccolo = 66
Trunks = 80
Goku = 96
Vegeta = 100

 

[Power Level Guy]

Trunks is closer to 90 and Piccolo may be 75-80

How much is your Kami boost?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I like Piccolo at 70% of Vegeta. That puts Vegeta right in the middle between Piccolo and Kamiccolo. That does complicate Vegeta vs 19, however.

 

[SSJ2]

That does complicate Vegeta vs 19, however.

Why?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Why?

Vegeta > Piccolo > 20 > 19. If Vegeta is like 2x 19 then every tank in the series is more than 2x. This eventually snowballs into Base Saiyans being too strong for Trunks ~ 18.

 

[SSJ2]

19 post would be what, 60 if Piccolo is 70? It looks good to me.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

19 post would be what, 60 if Piccolo is 70? It looks good to me.

What about 20? I think he should be a 60, maybe even less. Piccolo was barely trying.

 

[SSJ2]

61. 1.15x difference seems fair for what we saw. Not able to one shot but not far from it.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

61. 1.15x difference seems fair for what we saw. Not able to one shot but not far from it.

And 20 > 19 doesn’t have to be big right? Hm… That might work.

 

[SSJ2]

Yeah the only thing that might suggest otherwise is 20's speed taking Vegeta by surprise.

 

[Papasmurf]

I wonder if it was the terrain or the fact that they can't detect his Ki that made him nigh uncatchable even though he's one shot material to Vegeta.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I wonder if it was the terrain or the fact that they can't detect his Ki that made him nigh uncatchable even though he's one shot material to Vegeta.

A bit of both + Vegeta underestimating his speed.

 

[AngelBorninHell]

Trunks is closer to 90 and Piccolo may be 75-80

I can't make much sense of Trunks being that near Vegeta if almost every other Vegeta tier competitor (like Imperfect Cell or Future 18) think lowly of him.

I could upgrade him to 83%. But I'd like going by:

Trunks/Vegeta (Pre): 8/10
Trunks/Vegeta (1st Post): 9/10
Trunks/Vegeta (CG): 10/10

How much is your Kami boost?

2,66x