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If SSJ Broly really was, then Bills'd be a monster compared to Jiren and some of the other Hakaishins.
Jiren > Hakaishins was never solidly stated though. Whis alludes to him being the one he was talking about when mentioning a mortal surpassing a Hakaishin stronger than Beerus, but given he only hypothesised it to be the case rather than stating him to be without a doubt stronger than the Hakaishin. Manga-wise, the only thing we have to compare him to Hakaishin beyond Belmod is a guidebook statement saying he's "rumoured" to be above the 12 Hakaishin, which isn't exactly the strongest evidence.Pakl said:Seems like a lot of guys here are ignoring the whole Jiren > Hakaishins which was stated in guidebooks and anime just so Broli > Jiren can work. I call bias. The entire point of MUI Goku was that he surpassed the Hakaishins thst could not master ultrs instinct. Hence, he mastered it.
Not to mention Jiren is stated to be ahead of the gods in all medias. Broli can be stronger than Jiren but Jiren is stronger than the gods because its stated.
Captain Cadaver said:Jiren > Hakaishins was never solidly stated though. Whis alludes to him being the one he was talking about when mentioning a mortal surpassing a Hakaishin stronger than Beerus, but given he only hypothesised it to be the case rather than stating him to be without a doubt stronger than the Hakaishin. Manga-wise, the only thing we have to compare him to Hakaishin beyond Belmod is a guidebook statement saying he's "rumoured" to be above the 12 Hakaishin, which isn't exactly the strongest evidence.Pakl said:Seems like a lot of guys here are ignoring the whole Jiren > Hakaishins which was stated in guidebooks and anime just so Broli > Jiren can work. I call bias. The entire point of MUI Goku was that he surpassed the Hakaishins thst could not master ultrs instinct. Hence, he mastered it.
Not to mention Jiren is stated to be ahead of the gods in all medias. Broli can be stronger than Jiren but Jiren is stronger than the gods because its stated.
Meanwhile, we solidly have interview statements confirming Broly as the strongest opponent yet, whilst the movie cites him as possibly being above Beerus.
Whis stated it was rumoured there was a mortal above Beerus and said that Jiren might be the one to fit that rumour, stating that he may be above the Hakaishin. In other words, a lot of guesswork from Whis' part without a solid affirmation.Pakl said:Whis already stated before the ToP that there is a mortal stronger than his god who is stronger than Beerus. Its later confirmed to be Jiren.
A line that's sooo consequential to the plot that it isn't even in the manga.The line was there was for the obvious reason of Toei telling you that Jiren is stronger than the gods. Otherwise all lines in the series can be ignored. It's not an hypothesis. Its a clear statement.
The majority of them state that Jiren is either on the level of the Hakaishin or "said to be" above them. The same applies for Broly from guidebook statement, with the added benefit of being stated to be someone above any previous opponent.Also a lot of guidebooks and the manga also state Jiren is stronger than the gods.
Irrelevant when Belmod isn't the strongest Hakaishin and we get no further affirmation of his strength.Jiren is stated to be stronger than Belmod in the Manga
Except he didn't even master it. Even in the current arc, he talks about how it's something he still cannot use properly and no sort of statement exists in the anime or manga of him truly surpassing the Hakaishin.The entire point of MUI is to have Goku surpass Beerus and the rest of the gods because they could not master it.
Because all the statements about Jiren VS Hakaishin use vague language such as "rumoured to be" or "possibly" rather than solid affirmations.Yet, for some weird reason, you are ignoring all those statements just to insist having Broli higher than Jiren. Accepting one statement in a magazine which says Broli is the strongest but ignores all the statements of Jiren's power which state he is stronger than the Hakaishins.
If you bothered to care about any Broly topic that doesn't concern his power, you'd know I at best don't care about the character and at worst hate how terribly written he is, particularly with the disappointment he was in the DBS film.This joke of a post proves CC is a Broli lover. I can no longer take him seriously.