If SSJ Broly is > Jiren...

[Fantastische Hure]

If SSJ Broly really was, then Bills'd be a monster compared to Jiren and some of the other Hakaishins.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Not really. Beerus ~ LSSJ Broly > Jiren doesn't have to be by a large gap, plus Belmod doesn't really need to be above any of the Hakaishin other than Sidra manga-wise. If anything, it just makes the likelihood of Quitela and the probability of , Champa and some of the other stronger Hakaishin being above Jiren being genuine. You could also make the argument that Goku was taking into account Beerus' Hakaidama, which was implied to be strong enough it could've taken out a lot of the Hakaishin during the battle royale if not for Sidra's barrier.

Anime-wise though, it obviously means Retcon GAINZ Beerus strikes again. :toei

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Well Gogeta dominated the fight against LSSJ Broly so it'd seem weird for the form we've seen for a bit in the end (from how the spoilers sounded to me) to be the one that was referred to.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Not really. Goku would still be able to experience how strong Broly was when as Gogeta and would have a far more solid response than "perhaps" being stronger than a lower form when he has full knowledge of Broly's true power.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Yeah, I'm just saying that for the form that lost a fight in dominant fashion to be given that statement seems weird. Not really disputing the logic of what you're saying since you are right that his peak power is probably what's being talked about.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Well, it wouldn't be the first time. Vegeta commended SSJ Cabba despite oneshotting him, after all.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

Is Broly movie out? Can anyone summarize it? (I don't mind spoilers)

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Going to come-out.

For spoilers Keedounan on Page 15 of the official movie discussion posted a link.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

It may be out in Japan (not sure), but the plot summary leaks are in the Movie Discussion Thread and seem credible with what information eventually ended up being true such as SSB Gogeta.

Basically, the important details are:

Gogeta beats Broly.
Broly survives.
Goku says Broly may be stronger than Beerus.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

And considering how many spoilers have come-out since which basically stated the same.

 

[Papasmurf]

Broly movie isn't out for another 2 weeks

 

[SIAD]

Then it would seem that Whis > Gogeta SSJB (Arc Broly)> Broly LSSJ (Arc Broly)> = Vegetto SSJB (Manga)> = Beerus = MUI Goku> Jiren (More Area of Limits)> Jiren (FP)> Belmod?

 

[SIAD]

.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

l0l

 

[Pakl]

Seems like a lot of guys here are ignoring the whole Jiren > Hakaishins which was stated in guidebooks and anime just so Broli > Jiren can work. I call bias. The entire point of MUI Goku was that he surpassed the Hakaishins thst could not master ultrs instinct. Hence, he mastered it.

Not to mention Jiren is stated to be ahead of the gods in all medias. Broli can be stronger than Jiren but Jiren is stronger than the gods because its stated.

P.S: its nice to come back

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Seems like a lot of guys here are ignoring the whole Jiren > Hakaishins which was stated in guidebooks and anime just so Broli > Jiren can work. I call bias. The entire point of MUI Goku was that he surpassed the Hakaishins thst could not master ultrs instinct. Hence, he mastered it.

Not to mention Jiren is stated to be ahead of the gods in all medias. Broli can be stronger than Jiren but Jiren is stronger than the gods because its stated.

Jiren > Hakaishins was never solidly stated though. Whis alludes to him being the one he was talking about when mentioning a mortal surpassing a Hakaishin stronger than Beerus, but given he only hypothesised it to be the case rather than stating him to be without a doubt stronger than the Hakaishin. Manga-wise, the only thing we have to compare him to Hakaishin beyond Belmod is a guidebook statement saying he's "rumoured" to be above the 12 Hakaishin, which isn't exactly the strongest evidence.
Meanwhile, we solidly have interview statements confirming Broly as the strongest opponent yet, whilst the movie cites him as possibly being above Beerus.

 

[Pakl]

Seems like a lot of guys here are ignoring the whole Jiren > Hakaishins which was stated in guidebooks and anime just so Broli > Jiren can work. I call bias. The entire point of MUI Goku was that he surpassed the Hakaishins thst could not master ultrs instinct. Hence, he mastered it.

Not to mention Jiren is stated to be ahead of the gods in all medias. Broli can be stronger than Jiren but Jiren is stronger than the gods because its stated.

Jiren > Hakaishins was never solidly stated though. Whis alludes to him being the one he was talking about when mentioning a mortal surpassing a Hakaishin stronger than Beerus, but given he only hypothesised it to be the case rather than stating him to be without a doubt stronger than the Hakaishin. Manga-wise, the only thing we have to compare him to Hakaishin beyond Belmod is a guidebook statement saying he's "rumoured" to be above the 12 Hakaishin, which isn't exactly the strongest evidence.
Meanwhile, we solidly have interview statements confirming Broly as the strongest opponent yet, whilst the movie cites him as possibly being above Beerus.

Whis already stated before the ToP that there is a mortal stronger than his god who is stronger than Beerus. Its later confirmed to be Jiren. The line was there was for the obvious reason of Toei telling you that Jiren is stronger than the gods. Otherwise all lines in the series can be ignored. It's not an hypothesis. Its a clear statement.

Also a lot of guidebooks and the manga also state Jiren is stronger than the gods. Jiren is stated to be stronger than Belmod in the Manga The entire point of MUI is to have Goku surpass Beerus and the rest of the gods because they could not master it.

Yet, for some weird reason, you are ignoring all those statements just to insist having Broli higher than Jiren. Accepting one statement in a magazine which says Broli is the strongest but ignores all the statements of Jiren's power which state he is stronger than the Hakaishins.

Or if I want to troll like SHC (sorry man I just had do it so you might learn)

This joke of a post proves CC is a Broli lover. I can no longer take him seriously.

However, unlike SHC, I accept critic thinking so all good.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

All the statements can be ignored. Toei contradicts them in the same episode anyway. :toei :toei :toei

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Whis already stated before the ToP that there is a mortal stronger than his god who is stronger than Beerus. Its later confirmed to be Jiren.

Whis stated it was rumoured there was a mortal above Beerus and said that Jiren might be the one to fit that rumour, stating that he may be above the Hakaishin. In other words, a lot of guesswork from Whis' part without a solid affirmation.

The line was there was for the obvious reason of Toei telling you that Jiren is stronger than the gods. Otherwise all lines in the series can be ignored. It's not an hypothesis. Its a clear statement.

A line that's sooo consequential to the plot that it isn't even in the manga.
The context behind Whis' statements shows he's hypothesising Jiren is the one part of the rumour, rather than solidly stating "he's a mortal above even Beerus!"

Also a lot of guidebooks and the manga also state Jiren is stronger than the gods.

The majority of them state that Jiren is either on the level of the Hakaishin or "said to be" above them. The same applies for Broly from guidebook statement, with the added benefit of being stated to be someone above any previous opponent.

Jiren is stated to be stronger than Belmod in the Manga

Irrelevant when Belmod isn't the strongest Hakaishin and we get no further affirmation of his strength.

The entire point of MUI is to have Goku surpass Beerus and the rest of the gods because they could not master it.

Except he didn't even master it. Even in the current arc, he talks about how it's something he still cannot use properly and no sort of statement exists in the anime or manga of him truly surpassing the Hakaishin.

Yet, for some weird reason, you are ignoring all those statements just to insist having Broli higher than Jiren. Accepting one statement in a magazine which says Broli is the strongest but ignores all the statements of Jiren's power which state he is stronger than the Hakaishins.

Because all the statements about Jiren VS Hakaishin use vague language such as "rumoured to be" or "possibly" rather than solid affirmations.
Meanwhile, the Broly > Jiren statement was made with very solid affirmation of his strength: "
Frankly, the enemy Goku and co. are up against in this movie is the strongest. Those who trust Goku will win may lose confidence, so be careful."

This joke of a post proves CC is a Broli lover. I can no longer take him seriously.

If you bothered to care about any Broly topic that doesn't concern his power, you'd know I at best don't care about the character and at worst hate how terribly written he is, particularly with the disappointment he was in the DBS film.

Seems you still haven't learned why people within the DB forum community lack any respect for you - Your insistence to use ad hominem and strawmanning to declare anyone with a differing viewpoint to yourself as just a "noob" or "fanboy" shows how childish and incapable of civil discussion you are.