Is Base Boys >>> 18 possible?

[ahill1]

#18's face after da blast was pretty funny, man. Wtf u saying

 

[Pakl]

The Daizenshuu says they're equal. Outside that, nothing really does, but you'd have to argue the Mighty Mask suit was holding them back that much that they needed to use a suppressed SSJ blast to settle the fight.

The Daizenshuu said they fought evenly, not that they were equals. The suit was holding them back as Trunks admited so, so it doesn't means much.

The suit indeed held back the hell out of them, as they needed a blast despite being CG Goku level individually.

No

 

[SSJ2]

Sweet evidence bro.

 

[GSM123]

#18's face after da blast was pretty funny, man. Wtf u saying

She looked like female

No

Why?

 

[ahill1]

I currently have da SSJ kids being about half as strong as full power Cell.

 

[GSM123]

You use like a 2x multiplier bruh.

 

[ahill1]

I still feel both base Goten and Trunks would effortlessly vaporize Freeza.

 

[GSM123]

They are only as strong as 10 thousand men tho.

 

[ahill1]

Nah, it was said they are as tough as 10,000 man, which means they have the durability that a 50,000 battle power guy would usually have, boyyyyyyy

 

[GSM123]

Yeah, and Goku probably was refering to SSJ when he said Abo and Cado were a good match. SSJ Goten/Trunks ~ 1st form Freeza, but they have Nappa's 2x durability.

 

[GSM123]

Wait i fucked up the math there

 

[withheldforprivacy]

What's funny on the fight that classifies it as gag?

I'll rephrase it. AT used that fight so that those who remained at the tournament
would be occupied with something; it would be more interesting than showing
them waiting and and moaning. He didn't know himself where Base Saiyans
stood compared to old enemies at that point and he didn't get a calculator
before drawing the fight. He made it an even semi gag fight, because that would
be more interesting than showing either Eighteen or the kids stomping. I'm not
saying you can't use that fight as evidence, i'm saying you don't have to. Anything
you choose to go with can make sense...
-Kids being superior but being hindered by the suit.
-Eighteen being superior but holding back because Krillin told her to.
-Them being equal.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

I'll rephrase it. AT used that fight so that those who remained at the tournament would be occupied with something; it would be more interesting than showing them waiting and and moaning.

Implying that any fight without consequence to the main plot should can be ignored as evidence.

He didn't know himself where Base Saiyans stood compared to old enemies at that point and he didn't get a calculator before drawing the fight.

He never cared about battle powers or calculations in the first place beyond Character A > Character B. That doesn't mean he didn't have some relative idea of how characters stacked up against each other.

He made it an even semi gag fight, because that would be more interesting than showing either Eighteen or the kids stomping.

Light hearted =/= Gag fight. By that logic, most of Part 1's fights can be ignored as evidence and treat as gag fights.

I'm not saying you can't use that fight as evidence, i'm saying you don't have to.

Sounds more like cherry picking relativism. Whilst I agree there's several ways to interpret the fight, the only ones that seem to have strong evidence behind them are the kids being equal/stronger but hindered or the suit being a plot nerf device.

-Eighteen being superior but holding back because Krillin told her to.

Easily the least likely option. #18 became aware pretty quickly that her opponent wasn't a normal human and if this were truly the case, she could easily put out enough effort to KO Mighty Mask, but not fatally injure him. Clearly, this wasn't the case.

 

[ahill1]

I'll rephrase it. AT used that fight so that those who remained at the tournament would be occupied with something; it would be more interesting than showing them waiting and and moaning.

Implying that any fight without consequence to the main plot should can be ignored as evidence.

He didn't know himself where Base Saiyans stood compared to old enemies at that point and he didn't get a calculator before drawing the fight.

He never cared about battle powers or calculations in the first place beyond Character A > Character B. That doesn't mean he didn't have some relative idea of how characters stacked up against each other.

He made it an even semi gag fight, because that would be more interesting than showing either Eighteen or the kids stomping.

Light hearted =/= Gag fight. By that logic, most of Part 1's fights can be ignored as evidence and treat as gag fights.

I'm not saying you can't use that fight as evidence, i'm saying you don't have to.

Sounds more like cherry picking relativism. Whilst I agree there's several ways to interpret the fight, the only ones that seem to have strong evidence behind them are the kids being equal/stronger but hindered or the suit being a plot nerf device.

-Eighteen being superior but holding back because Krillin told her to.

Easily the least likely option. #18 became aware pretty quickly that her opponent wasn't a normal human and if this were truly the case, she could easily put out enough effort to KO Mighty Mask, but not fatally injure him. Clearly, this wasn't the case.

I am not agreeing with withheld (I don't think the fight should be ignored), but I'd argue that the kids not even attempting to engage with #18 in a hand to hand combat upon becoming many time stronger through the SSJ amplification, and rather resorting to a chi blast, seems kind utter BS considering the suit didn't seem to be so much of a handicap as seen in their fight against #18 in base, whereas they could (Trunks, mainly) quite clear defend themselves from a lot of her blows, as well as throw a punch, to which even #18 seemed surprised by the fighter's strength.

I don't think them overestimating #18 so much works here either, considering we saw that their blast ended up 'weak' (or 'slow') enough that #18 could dodge it in a similar fashion Goku dodged 18K Vegeta's blast on Earth when Vegeta also stated he was holding back the blast to a point it wouldn't kill Goku... so if they overestimated #18 so much that they thought their SSJ selves would be in problems if attempting to fight h2h, then I think the likely scenario would be the blast completely screwing her, and not being slow enough that she could dodge it better than Goku did on Earth against an opponent who was around 1.1x stronger than his Kaioken.

Then, honestly, it seems to be evident to me that the story isn't even taking itself seriously at that point, considering an opponent of MSSJ level shouldn't have had any problems in taking out #18 even if in the suit, specially when Jackie Chun and Son Goku could take out Yamcha and Chi Chi respectively when not even touching them, that is, when not engaging into a hand to hand combat.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

I'll rephrase it. AT used that fight so that those who remained at the tournament would be occupied with something; it would be more interesting than showing them waiting and and moaning.

Implying that any fight without consequence to the main plot should can be ignored as evidence.

That was the only tournament fight without effect on the main plot. At Early DB, the tournaments WERE the plot.