Is "FPSSJ" a higher multiplier than "SSJ"

[ahill1]

What do you think? If the "FPSSJ" was the same multiplier as "SSJ", why did not Goku turn into SSJG2 against Cell, or why did not Vegeta turn into SSJG2 against the mini Cell?

 

[SSJ2]

Hell no. It is just regular Super Saiyan with Base stamina. Goku/Vegeta didn't use Grade 2 because it was judged to be too inefficient and wasted too much energy.

 

[ahill1]

Hell no. It is just regular Super Saiyan with Base stamina. Goku/Vegeta didn't use Grade 2 because it was judged to be too inefficient and wasted too much energy.

SSJG2 was not inefficient against Semi Cell. Vegeta would have lost with only SSJ, while he dominated Semi Cell with SSJG2.

Also:

SSG2 Vegeta >> Semi Cell full power >> SSJ Vegeta ~ Semi Cell (initial).

According to this, that would mean SSJG2 Vegeta/SSJG2 Goku >>> FPSSJ Goku/FPSSJ Vegeta.

 

[SSJ2]

Hell no. It is just regular Super Saiyan with Base stamina. Goku/Vegeta didn't use Grade 2 because it was judged to be too inefficient and wasted too much energy.

SSJG2 was not inefficient against Semi Cell. Vegeta would have lost with only SSJ, while he dominated Semi Cell with SSJG2.

Also:

SSG2 Vegeta >> Semi Cell full power >> SSJ Vegeta ~ Semi Cell (initial).

According to this, that would mean SSJG2 Vegeta/SSJG2 Goku >>> FPSSJ Goku/FPSSJ Vegeta.

http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=9071187&t=8507183

 

[ahill1]

@Zoro

I see. But again, why did not Vegeta turn SSJG2 against the Cell Juniors? Semi Perfect Cell at full power was stronger than SSJ Vegeta and yet the SSJG2 was extremely effective against him. If the mini Cell is about as strong as SSJ/FPSSJ Vegeta, why did not he turn into SSJG2, seeing it was effective against Semi Cell?

 

[SSJ2]

I'm not the right guy to ask, you'd have to ask Toriyama. I agree that it seems illogical, but Vegeta was pretty clear about Grade 2 even not being a good form to use, Super Saiyan was the only form that was viable.

It's also possible that he lost the ability after semi-mastering Super Saiyan - just a thought.

 

[ahill1]

I'm not the right guy to ask, you'd have to ask Toriyama. I agree that it seems illogical, but Vegeta was pretty clear about Grade 2 even not being a good form to use, Super Saiyan was the only form that was viable.

It's also possible that he lost the ability after semi-mastering Super Saiyan - just a thought.

SSJG2 was pretty good against Cell, even though it has its problems, as you mentioned. Seeing as Semi Cell at full power was stronger than normal SSJ Vegeta, the SSJG2 was pretty effective. He could do the same against the mini Cell and he would be able to easily dominate him, unless Vegeta was a FPSSJ and it has a multiplier even higher when it's mastered.

I always like to look at the Cell-situation. He was basically a full-power SSJ against Son Goku and Son Gohan, and his Super Perfect form was like his SSJ2. Yet he could use the buff form in a moment of desperation against SSJ2 Chibi Gohan.

 

[SSJ2]

But you can't make that comparison because Cell isn't 100% Saiyan. For example, he said that he powered up "like Son Gohan", meaning he got a power up, not a SSJ2 transformation.

 

[ahill1]

The SSJG3 is what is completely not-viable. The SSJG2, while has its weakness, is pretty good against foes considerably weaker.

 

[ahill1]

But you can't make that comparison because Cell isn't 100% Saiyan. For example, he said that he powered up "like Son Gohan", meaning he got a power up, not a SSJ2 transformation.

He is not 100% saiyan, but he showed transformations that represented the SSJ's transformations, like when he got Buff against Future Trunks ("SSJG3"), in order to show its weakness.

So you think when a Saiyan choose to go the way of mastering the SSJ, he has no longer access to the SSJG2 and SSJG3?

 

[SSJ2]

I think it's a possibility. It can't be denied that Gr 2 seems to have more advantages than disadvantages - it increases power and speed, but reduces stamina by a little bit. For whatever reason, Vegeta/Goku judged that it wasn't a form worth using. Either that, or they simply lost the ability to pump themselves up after mastering/semi-mastering Super Saiyan.

 

[sei'taer]

I've always thought it completely bonkers trunks and vegeta didn't use grade 2 against the cell juniors with zero explanation.

 

[ahill1]

I think it's a possibility. It can't be denied that Gr 2 seems to have more advantages than disadvantages - it increases power and speed, but reduces stamina by a little bit. For whatever reason, Vegeta/Goku judged that it wasn't a form worth using. Either that, or they simply lost the ability to pump themselves up after mastering/semi-mastering Super Saiyan.

I can live with that theory haha.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

I agree with @Zoro.

The reason Goku probably didn't use, was because he knew he had no chance, either-way so why waste energy.

 

[Tapion]

Well, if you want to have WORKABLE power levels without super tight gaps, then FPSSj being higher than SSj is not really a problem, since it probably contradicts nothing

 

[SSJ2]

Well, if you want to have WORKABLE power levels without super tight gaps, then FPSSj being higher than SSj is not really a problem, since it probably contradicts nothing

It contradicts the fact that Vegeta called it the regular Super Saiyan form. There is nothing special or improved about it.

 

[Tapion]

Well, if you want to have WORKABLE power levels without super tight gaps, then FPSSj being higher than SSj is not really a problem, since it probably contradicts nothing

It contradicts the fact that Vegeta called it the regular Super Saiyan form. There is nothing special or improved about it.

Are you talking about this statement? ->
Chapter: 390 (DBZ 196), P6.1-2
Context: Goku and Gohan emerged from the Room of Spirit and Time
Vegeta (to self): “…What’s with them?!...Is that Super Saiyan…!? No…It has a slightly different atmosphere…They’re being so natural in that state…

If so, it contradicts nothing. He could've said that because the appearance is identical to Super Saiyan. Anyway, Vegeta wouldn't be capable of saying that FPSSj provides a higher power boost than SSj, since he could mistake the new power provided by the new boost for "super heavy training".

 

[SSJ2]

Chapter: 387 (DBZ 193), P10.3, P13.1-4
Context: Goku just achieved Super Saiyan Grade III for the first time.
Gohan: “Ab-absolutely incredible power! You’ll definitely be able to defeat Cell like this!”
[ ]
Goku: “I can’t win like this…Probably not…[ ] With my muscles swelled up like this, my power greatly increases, but it kills my speed. Huge power doesn’t mean anything if I can’t hit my opponent…And it uses up energy at too intense a rate. Balance-wise, regular Super Saiyan is best. I know that well enough…”

Chapter: 391 (DBZ 197), P7.2-7
Tenshinhan: “…Hey, Goku and Gohan were Super Saiyans just now, right? But even so, they were very…how do I say this?...Natural-feeling…”
Piccolo: “…I think there’s no doubt that they were Super Saiyans…However, they’ve trained so that they can exist in that state at an ordinary, everyday level…”
Trunks: “S-so then…When they fight, they’ll [perform] an ev-even more tremendous transformation…!”
Vegeta: “Are you an idiot?...You don’t seem to think things over…They’ve judged that state as the best! If they get used to that as a matter of habit, then even if they raise their battle power, the strain on their body is very small! [ ] They’ve thought this through…”

It is regular Super Saiyan with Base-like stamina. It doesn't get more complicated than that. There are no new special abilities or powers.

 

[Papasmurf]

Yeah, FPSSJ is just a regular Super Saiyan without the side-effects like increased aggression and ki drain. I chalk up their disuse of SSJg2 to either that it ceases to provide much of a boost after they reach their "limit" in the Rosat, or that it was just judged to be a completely inefficient form.

 

[ahill1]

Yeah, FPSSJ is just a regular Super Saiyan without the side-effects like increased aggression and ki drain. I chalk up their disuse of SSJg2 to either that it ceases to provide much of a boost after they reach their "limit" in the Rosat, or that it was just judged to be a completely inefficient form.

SSJG2 is not a completely inefficient form though. Semi Cell at full power was stronger than SSJ Vegeta and yet Vegeta could stomp him with the SSJG2. I'd say that SSJG3 would be a inefficient form, since Vegeta probably choose not to use it because he knew would not work.