Is Super Boo Really Stronger Than Fat Boo?

[kriss-]

I'm having a difficult time in deciding if he really is more powerful than Fat Boo. The beings are comprised of exactly the same material and should coincidentally be exactly the same strength. Additionally, as a counter to Piccolo's 'everything' statement; fortunately this isn't the only statement Piccolo makes on the matter, in addition to his generalized statement that I've quoted, there is also this specific statement:

Chapter: 486 (DBZ 292), P2.2-6
Context: after Boo transforms into evil Boo
Piccolo: “…Have you noticed? …This change in Majin Boo’s ki…[ ] …He’s changed…All due to some idiotic Earthlings…He’s become pure evil, and his body has become more suited toward battle…Th-this…this…”
Kuririn: “Wha…What?...D-don’t tell me you’re saying this is bad!? …It’s al-alright! We’ve got the squirts’ Fusion! Goku said that right? That Fusion was the strongest…!”
Dende: “…”
Piccolo: “…That’d be nice, but…”

Piccolo gives us a run down of the changes that Buu underwent, again a person who can sense ki (Krillin) displays that he did not sense a change in Buu's ki. And like I deduced, the changes did not include power.

Specific statements give us specific details.

Do you understand the difference between general and specific statements? Every time Buu's power changed, it was specifically mentioned at least once, some of these power changes were mentioned even more too:

Gohan notes Fat Buu's ki increase:

Gohan: “It-it rose…Majin Boo’s ki rose explosively…He’s str-strong…Too strong…This is unbelievable…”

Super Buu becomes Buutenks:

Boo: “…What do you think, Gohan? My strategy succeeded safely. Look, isn’t it magnificent? This is a moment that will never appear again, no matter what the future may hold: the birth of the strongest majin.”
Boo: “It’s your fault. You were stronger than I, who should have been the absolute strongest…When I sensed your distant presence, I started up on this strategy…In case maybe, just maybe, there was anyone stronger than myself…Then I hit upon it: if I absorbed that ‘Super Gotenks’ squirt I was fighting at the time, then no matter what kind of guy appeared, my throne as the strongest would not be shaken…”

Buutenks becomes Buiccolo:

Goku: “Hahha—ah! Piccolo’s coming out strong now! Looks like the Fused squirts have returned to normal! You ran out of time! Tooo—oo bad! Your power’s fallen a whole lot. Cheh…I’m a little disappointed. This way, Gohan will be able to beat you even on his own…”

Buiccolo becomes Buuhan:

Boo: “Fu…fuhahahaha…! This is great! I’ve powered up even more than before! And what’s more, now there’s no time limit!”

Buuhan becomes Super Buu:

Goku: “Hehhe~~eh! With this, Boo’s power should have fallen significantly! We’re almost there! See, see: the size of his ki is completely different than before!”

Goku: “Wait! Even though Boo has returned to normal a whole lot, we’re still simply no match for his strength! If we go outside like this, we’ll definitely be done in…!”

Super Buu to Grey/Innocent Buu (Hypothetical):

Vegeta: “This’ll be fun…Will you turn back into this fatso? Or will you become that scrawny guy? …Either way, it seems that your power will doubtlessly fall below what it is now.”

Super Buu becomes Buff Buu:

Goku: “H-hey…Vegeta…His ki is increasing, ain’t it…!?”

Now, these are what we call specific statements, when Fat Buu powered up, Gohan didn't give us a general statement, he gave us a specific one. Specific statements give us specific details. Now where is the evidence that Super Buu's ki increased?

There is no way around the fact that Piccolo made a general statement with no specific facts? If you're trying to prove that Super Buu is better in general, the statement you provided would be fine. You're trying to prove something specific, provide specific statements.

I'm having a really tough time in deciding if S.Boo is actually stronger than Fat Boo. I'm leaning towards the fact that they are the same strength because there isn't any valid arguments that suggest there is a difference.

 

[Six Trails]

Let's see.

Fat Boo:
Chapter: 509 (DBZ 315), P11.4-6
Context: as Goku prepares to fight Boo
Goku: “Is that alright? You just might not get your turn…I can say this now, but the truth is that with that fat Boo, I would have been able to defeat him at the time with Super Saiyan 3… However, I wanted the young guys to manage something…For the Earth’s sake too…”

Evil Boo:
Chapter: 506 (DBZ 312), P8.1
Context: Goku points out that if he and Vegeta aren’t merged, Vegeta will have to return to the afterlife
Vegeta: “Hmph…That’s better than being merged with you…Anyway, there shouldn’t be any need for us to merge anymore, right?”
Goku: “We can’t know that! There’s [no] guarantee that we’ll be able to successfully rescue everyone who got absorbed from here and return Boo to the very first one of all…!”

Chapter: 506 (DBZ 312), P12.4-5
Context: after Goku and Vegeta revert Boo back to regular evil Boo
Goku: “Wait! Even though Boo has returned to normal a whole lot, we’re still simply no match for his strength! If we go outside like this, we’ll definitely be done in…!”

If this somehow doesn't answer your question, then I have no idea what will.

 

[FutureProtagonist]

Yeah, it's explicitly stated in the Daizenshuu, the one where the writers had a "direct line to Toriyama" so there's nothing really to argue.

 

[kriss-]

Yeah, it's explicitly stated in the Daizenshuu, the one where the writers had a "direct line to Toriyama" so there's nothing really to argue.

Please use evidence from the Japanese Manga.

Fat Boo:
Chapter: 509 (DBZ 315), P11.4-6
Context: as Goku prepares to fight Boo
Goku: “Is that alright? You just might not get your turn…I can say this now, but the truth is that with that fat Boo, I would have been able to defeat him at the time with Super Saiyan 3… However, I wanted the young guys to manage something…For the Earth’s sake too…”

By the virtue of this topic, Fat Boo is comprised of the same material as Super Boo; therefore when he says he's stronger than one than both are interchangeable within the context of the statement.

Evil Boo:
Chapter: 506 (DBZ 312), P8.1
Context: Goku points out that if he and Vegeta aren’t merged, Vegeta will have to return to the afterlife
Vegeta: “Hmph…That’s better than being merged with you…Anyway, there shouldn’t be any need for us to merge anymore, right?”
Goku: “We can’t know that! There’s [no] guarantee that we’ll be able to successfully rescue everyone who got absorbed from here and return Boo to the very first one of all…!”

Goku wouldn't use Ssj3 during this time and he would rather use other means of defeating Boo. Such as 'successfully rescuing everyone who got absorbed from Boo', or 'staying merged'.

Chapter: 506 (DBZ 312), P12.4-5
Context: after Goku and Vegeta revert Boo back to regular evil Boo
Goku: “Wait! Even though Boo has returned to normal a whole lot, we’re still simply no match for his strength! If we go outside like this, we’ll definitely be done in…!”

In this particular statement, Vegeta wants to blast out and escape as soon as possible, without even considering the fact that he will have to fight Boo and either die or return to the after-life anyways. Goku is still playing his card and trying to stop Vegeta. Additionally, Innocent Boo (whose likely as strong as Super Boo), already proved himself to be much stronger than an army of Super Saiyan 2's.

 

[sei'taer]

The direct and implied statements about goku and gotenks superiority over fat buu, but their inferiority to super buu pretty much makes this clear cut.

 

[kriss-]

The direct and implied statements about goku and gotenks superiority over fat buu, but their inferiority to super buu pretty much makes this clear cut.

I still don't feel that that evidence in particular is convincing. It can be looked at from a different perspective.

But to each his own I suppose.

 

[FutureProtagonist]

They have the same pool of power, but the influence of Grand Kaioshin prevents Fatty from accessing most of it, effectively making him much weaker. If he's influenced by enough evil that he can begin to access his full power, he splits. He can't access that power without becoming Super Boo. Kaioshin states that he was weakened when he absorbed Grand Kaioshin. I guess the strength checker makes it ambiguous as to whether South weakened him too, but it doesn't make a great deal of sense that South did.

Grand Kaioshin still has some influence over Super Boo, but by and large, he's influenced by the empowering elements of South Kaioshin, but he can't quite access all of his power.

Pure Boo is just between them. He can access all of Boo's power, but lost the power of the South Kaioshin, which made him weaker.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Piccolo stated Super Boo is greater than before [i.e Fat Boo]

 

[withheldforprivacy]

Maybe Fat Buu has all Super Buu's power but, because of his sweet nature, cannot use it all, which is why he seemed weaker to Piccolo.

 

[kriss-]

Did he really seem weaker to Piccolo? The generalized statement didn't specifically state that his Chi increased; whereas the specific details don't mention an increase of Chi.

 

[Zippy]

Goku > Fat Buu
Super Buu > Goku
:elmo

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Chapter: 488 (DBZ 294), P5.5-6
Trunks: “Huh!? That’s Majin Boo!?”
Goten: “He-he really has changed…”
Piccolo: “It’s not just his appearance…Everything about him is definitely greater than before…”
:elmo

 

[withheldforprivacy]

Hey, Tosh. I had a brief look at your Gotenks thread and one said something about the way you interpreted the word ''still'' when Piccolo said
''Super Buu is still stronger at everything''. Since i don't feel like searching at the walls of text you exchanged at that thread, can you repeat here
what you think of that statement?

 

[kriss-]

Herms

Chapter: 487 (DBZ 293), P13.5
Context: as Piccolo plans on having Goten and Trunks train in the Room of Spirit and Time
Piccolo: “Can’t you tell…?! As they are now, even if they perform Fusion they can’t win, no doubt about it…!

In the Herms translations, Piccolo says their current power standing is nothing compared to Super Boo. However, Piccolo is the only Z-Figher (Dende is not a Z-Fighter) who accurately measured Super Boo's power burst. He doesn't stay at this level of power until he opens up the portal in the RoSaT; hence why Krillen doesn't notice a change in Chi and wants to send Goenks after Boo right away. So really, Super Boo is still believed to be as powerful as Innocent Boo from everybody except Piccolo. He tells a few people that Boo is better in way every, but that statement leaves to much to be interpreted for them to accurately comprehend exactly how powerful Super Boo has become. General statements are in no way specific.

So it seems that Gotenks Pre is pretty weak to begin with.

Actually according to Viz Piccolo technically says Gotenks is weaker than Fat Buu.
http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r628/Lightsworn2/_20140911_090515_zps100ktocm.jpg

 

[Jeff Styles]

Both are comprised of the same materials, the only difference is Grand Kaioshin "restricted" Fat Boo from his current highest strength, Buff Boo.

Once Fat Boo split in two, he lost most of his power. Despite the Evil Boo absorbs the Good one and got a better body for combat and the ability to sense Chi, Grand Kaioshin's influence preventing him from accessing his full power. as well as preventing him from harming Hercule and Bee because of Fat Boo's memories of them.

 

[kriss-]

That's cool that you brought up the name 'Bee'. I recall that being the dogs name in the Anime but I'm uncertain if he was named that in the Japanese version.

 

[Jeff Styles]

I just going by his only name, Hercule calls him Bee in the Funimation Dub. Not even Viz gave the dog a name. I think Bee was inspired by Toriyama's late dog, Matryoshka or Mato for short, whose picture was in DB Volume 13.
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/manga/tankobon/vol-13/

 

[kriss-]

Super Boo (Full Power) =/= Super Boo (Power Burst) > Super Boo (Initial) =/= Innocent Boo > Gotenks Ssj Post > Gotenks Ssj Pre > Gotenks Base Post > Gotenks Base Pre

Is the new chain I'm rolling with.

 

[Tapion]

Super Buu IS factually much stronger than Fat Buu. I'd say at the very, very least 33x stronger.

 

[kriss-]

Super Buu IS factually much stronger than Fat Buu. I'd say at the very, very least 33x stronger.

That's your opinion. Thank-you for blatantly stating it.