Is there any proof that Cymbal>22nd TB Krillin/Yamcha?

[ahill1]

In the anime Goku stated that he hit Yajirobe with everything he's got and showed surprise at Yajirobe receiving that with no injuries. In the manga we have no such dinstinction tbough. Rather, Yajirobe was surprised at Goku's tenacity and capabilities when he attacked Tambourine full throttle. Still, it's likely that Yajirobe also held back a little in his little scuffle with Goku as this latter was also also somewhat surprised by the swordsman's capabilities in curting down Cymbal.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Still, it's likely that Yajirobe also held back a little in his little scuffle with Goku as this latter was also also somewhat surprised by the swordsman's capabilities in curting down Cymbal.

I wouldn't say that's evidence of holding back as weapons are consistently treat as a force multiplier such as Tao Pai Pai's sword allowing him to fare a little better in the rematch with Goku or Cold believing Trunks purely beat Freeza due to his sword. That, and Goku would also be impressed by his skill with the sword, something he didn't have a chance to witness prior.

 

[ahill1]

Still, it's likely that Yajirobe also held back a little in his little scuffle with Goku as this latter was also also somewhat surprised by the swordsman's capabilities in curting down Cymbal.

I wouldn't say that's evidence of holding back as weapons are consistently treat as a force multiplier such as Tao Pai Pai's sword allowing him to fare a little better in the rematch with Goku or Cold believing Trunks purely beat Freeza due to his sword. That, and Goku would also be impressed by his skill with the sword, something he didn't have a chance to witness prior.

Well, Yajirobe also managed to dodge Cymbal's lightning way easier after the warm up, according ro him, was over, so he at least also upped his speed after getting serious. It's true that a sword is a fine extension of one's power but the lack of distinction makes me think that was an overall amazement by Goku.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

If that were the case, Goku would've shown amazement after Yajirobe dodged the lightning rather until after the sword slash against Cymbal.

 

[ahill1]

Considering that Yajirobe slashed Cymbal right afterwards, an amazement right in between both scenes would be unwarranted and weird.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Not really. It wouldn't have damaged the pacing or framing of the page/chapter at all to add at least a small reaction shot from Goku during the dodge before the greater reaction after the slash.

 

[ahill1]

Goku doesn't have to be surprised ONLY by his speed either. It was the conjuction of Yajirobe's prowess that surprised him. Since the scene concluded right afterwards, the way it happened works better.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

I'm not arguing that the speed was the only factor Goku would be impressed by. If anything, the fact his reaction was fully left until after the attack would show that he viewed the swordsmanship as a more impressive feat than the speed and the lack of surprise prior on Goku's part would suggest such speed wasn't unexpected from Yajirobe's level.

 

[ahill1]

Like I said, it all happened pretty fast. Goku doesn't need to show a quick reaction to the speed for it not to be taken into account in his actual surprise. If he were surprised at everything (speed, strength in cutting Cymbal), then it makes sense his reaction only happened after Cymbal was slashed. It also takes strength to go through Cymbal's body like that, not just a fine swordsman display. Since Goku has already had contact with enemies using weapon before (Tao, Akkuman), he sbould already expect such a result if what Yajirobe hit him with in their brief fight was Yajirobe's all.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Like I said, it all happened pretty fast. Goku doesn't need to show a quick reaction to the speed for it not to be taken into account in his actual surprise. If he were surprised at everything (speed, strength in cutting Cymbal), then it makes sense his reaction only happened after Cymbal was slashed.

Well, yeah, I never said he didn't take it into account, just that it wasn't surprising to the extent of warranting his immediate reaction.

It also takes strength to go through Cymbal's body like that, not just a fine swordsman display. Since Goku has already had contact with enemies using weapon before (Tao, Akkuman), he sbould already expect such a result if what Yajirobe hit him with in their brief fight was Yajirobe's all.

That would only be the case if the katana were a similar type of weapon to the cutlass or pitchfork, which it isn't. Katana are generally far less durable and require a great amount of skill to cut through solid flesh. Even assuming that's not a strong suit of Toriyama's knowledge and he goes by the more fictionalised myth of katana being perfect weapons, we've seen the durability of most weapons tend to be very limited before the use of Ki to enhance them such as an axe breaking when the villager used on against Goku in the first arc, so both a high-grade weapon and a user with the skill to not break it would be necessary.

 

[ahill1]

That would only be the case if the katana were a similar type of weapon to the cutlass or pitchfork, which it isn't. Katana are generally far less durable and require a great amount of skill to cut through solid flesh. Even assuming that's not a strong suit of Toriyama's knowledge and he goes by the more fictionalised myth of katana being perfect weapons, we've seen the durability of most weapons tend to be very limited before the use of Ki to enhance them such as an axe breaking when the villager used on against Goku in the first arc, so both a high-grade weapon and a user with the skill to not break it would be necessary.

Which only counts to Yajirobe's merit, as he's impressing Goku with a sword in theory that requires more of the user to be wielded. If he's able to draw that reaction from Goku using a sword that is harder to be handled than the swords Goku is more used to, then that only adds to my point.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

It would still require more than raw power behind it though when Yajirobe can't harness his Ki effectively. If anything, just having raw power behind it would be more of a detriment when using a katana, meaning skill would be the most important factor in play here; as was my point when it comes to Goku's reaction.

 

[ahill1]

Goku couldn't judge skill though as he doesn't know how sword works, presumably.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

He'd faced a katana wielding opponent before (Murasaki), so it's not as though he's without a benchmark.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

He has also faced the greatest swordsman of all: YamCHAD of the Desert. He has anything but a benchmark here.

 

[Papasmurf]

Cymbal was stated to be several times weaker than Tambourine, who based on Goku quickly defeating him and Tenshinhan at least getting a hit in on a much stronger Mazoku clansman (Drum), is probably on 22nd Roshi's level at best imo. Roshi isn't several times stronger than Kuririn and Yamcha, so I can't see Cymbal being so strong either. His purpose was to gather the Dragon Balls, he isn't a warrior Daimao created for combat.

 

[ahill1]

He'd faced a katana wielding opponent before (Murasaki), so it's not as though he's without a benchmark.

Yajirobe didn't seem to display any advanced skills with the Katana though, with the artwork seemingly portraying him as doing an usual movement, no different from the foes that used weapons against Goku, so it's likely that he took in his own strength to wield it properly and cut Cymbal. Which fits with physical strength being presumably the attribute that Yajirobe is highlighted as possessing.