Is this evidence that Fat Buu=Super Buu?

Hector

High Class Warrior
Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2020
Messages
2,204
First of all, when Super Buu appeared, while a bunch of people noticed the change in his ki (Piccolo, Gohan, Goku etc.), none of them said anything about a power increase. Which is strange. If AT wanted to notify us about a power increase, why did he wait several pages to do so?

Anyway, when Piccolo finally said it pages later, he worded it in a strange way: "In every way, he's more powerful still."

What does he mean? More powerful than before? More powerful than Gotenks? And why does he need the "still" word?

Is it possible he means that Buu is more powerful than Gotenks? Something like, "When I first saw SSJ Gotenks, I wasn't sure whether the kids stood a chance, but now I am. Although the kids have learned the fusion, Buu is still more powerful (than them)."
 

ahill1

Super Elite
Donor
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
14,407
Nah, Piccolo just meant that he is even more powerful than befoe. "Still" is interchangeable with "even" in this case, tho it'd be nice if someone could look up for the actual JP word used, I'm lazy now for that. If he were just stressing that Boo continued as higher than Gotenks, then all the reactions, rushing from Piccolo, change of outlook would be pretty underwhelming, since those would be reactions Piccolo should have taken since the start, were it only a body more adept to battle Boo acquired. Piccolo hadn't openly said he was stronger until then, but just his reaction when Boo screamed, being totally in awe and shocked, is enough visual evidence that Boo had powered up immensely by then. Super Boo was the new element that made Piccolo see the need in using the RoSaT, before this new Boo, Piccolo was fine letting the boys rest and had the battle planned for the next day.

Kuririn doesn't notice, weirdly enough, that big of a change (because characters are stupid with chi sensing sometimes, while in other instances they are the master of feeling even small chis like Kuririn noticing a whole lot of Namekians chi disappeared) and still bets on fusion like Goku said, but Piccolo is stressed with him and wondering how he can't tell that even as fused they don't have a shot against the new Boo. Maybe the power increase when Boo isn't screaming or letting out energy is hard to pinpoint since Piccolo was the only one who seemed more up to par to Boo's new power and had to tell the boys that as well.
 

Natasha Romanoff

High Class Warrior
Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2022
Messages
1,452
I think that Super Buu was scripted to be as strong as Fat Buu on those episodes, but was retconned after Vegetto separated in which Goku said "We're simply no match for his strength".

Goku only tell that Gohan Buu is so strong in relation to Fat Buu because of all the people he absorbed to Vegeta.

21eca1b8f66e8247daca8dd2fecd844c.jpg

Also, seems weird for Old Kaioshin to be referring to Gotenks Buu as "this current Majin Buu" or Buu explaining to Goku that he is different from before if the conclusion is that Super Buu was always stronger than Fat Buu.

4da90de29f46a17868d38a774f91dd8c.jpg

Chapter: 501 (DBZ 307), P5.5
Context: Elder Kaioshin warning Goku about recklessly going to rescue Gohan from Gotenks-absorbed Boo
Elder Kaioshin: “I hate to say it, but I don’t think you could win against this current Majin Boo even if the two of you went at him together…”
 

GreatSaiyaman123

Super Elite
Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2017
Messages
14,756
Age
22
AT didn’t really care at this point so it’s hard to read his intention, but Piccolo’s face when he sees Super Boo says it all. Even before Boo reveals he can sense Ki Piccolo is genuinely scared, and it ain’t because he lost weight.

In the anime Goku, the narrator and Piccolo (In Rosat) flat out say Super > Fat btw.
 

Hector

High Class Warrior
Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2020
Messages
2,204
I think that Super Buu was scripted to be as strong as Fat Buu on those episodes, but was retconned after Vegetto separated in which Goku said "We're simply no match for his strength".
Not necessarily a retcon. Goku had said about the same thing about Fat Buu to Piccolo: "Buu's mighty strong. I don't think I could've beaten him."
 

Natasha Romanoff

High Class Warrior
Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2022
Messages
1,452
Not necessarily a retcon. Goku had said about the same thing about Fat Buu to Piccolo: "Buu's mighty strong. I don't think I could've beaten him."
From "I don't think I could beat him" to "We're simply no match for his strength" and "We'll be done in", there's too much of a difference to consider it as the same.
 

Hector

High Class Warrior
Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2020
Messages
2,204
From "I don't think I could beat him" to "We're simply no match for his strength" and "We'll be done in", there's too much of a difference to consider it as the same.
I think Goku couldn't gauge Fat Buu's power properly. But when his new, athletic body enabled him to fight properly, Goku could now tell he was no match for him.
 

Natasha Romanoff

High Class Warrior
Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2022
Messages
1,452
I think Goku couldn't gauge Fat Buu's power properly. But when his new, athletic body enabled him to fight properly, Goku could now tell he was no match for him.
He's the one that told Vegeta that Buu hides some incredible power, I don't think he couldn't gauge properly.
 

ahill1

Super Elite
Donor
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
14,407
Goku kind of admitted it, implicitly, to Piccolo, that he could have defeated fat Boo, but chose not to do so because of the new generation. It wasn't as blatant as him saying such later on to Vegeta, but to me it's kinda easy to read in between the lines. Piccolo obviously doesn't buy Goku's first excuse and phrasing of "I don't know" and asks why he didn't try until the end, asking whether it was because of the SSJ3 time limit. Then Goku smiles to Piccolo, which to me, although I may be diving too much here, indicates he could recognise Piccolo could read through him generally being the one to try until the end, and says he isn't supposed to be the one doing it (doing what? Defeating Boo)... And that he wants to test the new generation as a possibility for them to try themselves... That seems like a clear giveaway that he could do it, tried to hide behind the fact Boo is too strong (I couldn't do it), but when Piccolo presses him, he spills the beans, he's no longer from such realm so he shouldn't be the one doing that. The "nasty gamble" said by Goku may also play an important role in that --- instead of finishing Boo and ending the threat right there, he chooses to postpone the fight and put it in the new generations hands. It's a gamble because it's something that could be achieved sooner and ended right there, but he's betting on the kids, knowing their amazing power --- but the situation is risky overall, who's to say the kids while having a superior power won't act arrogant and give the enemy a chance like kid Gohan vs Cell? Or who's to say something unexpected may happen with Boo, like what did in fact happened? Even when the kids have the power on their side, which is what Goku emphasized on when saying that's why he wants to take the gamble ("it's a gamble but seeing those super gifted kids, I wanted to take it"), their personalities and unexpected things happening is still something he can't control and know for sure.

I think that things like Bootenks saying he's fundamentally different from the Boo back then doesn't imply Super Boo wasn't already plenty, just that the difference now is just so big that Goku can't hope to complete. He doesn't highligh either what exactly made him different. When Goku tells Vegeta "that's how Boo got so different", one important thing to remember is that Goku didn't know the specifics on what Boo did to turn into Super Boo --- he didn't observe that besides just knowing Boo's chi had changed. So he'd most likely harp on the obvious things he knows, which would also have a bigger impact emotionally wise to Vegeta, as he can mention how Bulma and Trunks were absorbed by Boo.

Even Elder Kaioshin saying "I don't think" seems more like a general way of saying they won't be able to do that. I don't always play too much attention on sentences such as "I don't think" as implying the result won't be so obvious because conversations are fluid enough in which a character won't always be outright clear with their words. More like a general way of saying "you are planning going there, Goku, but I fear to say there's nothing you can do". The fact Goku thinks they should go SSJ when fusing --- with Gohan --- having the fusion exceptional boost in mind, not thinking base could do it, should be also indicative that he thought of Gotenks Boo's power as from another order, not to mention how defenseless he seemed when Gotenks Boo was about to attack him, with him begging for him to wait a little longer --- 1st time I see Goku begging to his enemies lol.
 

ahill1

Super Elite
Donor
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
14,407
Don't know why I still write this much in those kinda topics
 
Top