Is this evidence that Present Androids=Alternate Androids?

[ahill1]

It is possible that everything you say is true. Then could you explain me well the 4 Time Lines? How did they originate?

Following this theory, this is how I think everything happened:

History A1 - Son Goku returns to Earth and defeats Freeza and Cold. The Saiyajin then dies of a heart disease and the androids # 17 and # 18 dominate the events of A1, forcing Trunks A1 to travel to the past (pretty much a parallel of Mirai Trunks' timeline). The rest of the events are unknown.

Past Alternative A2 - Trunks of the future A1 defeats Freeza and cold. However this is still not enough to prevent Son Goku's death, the androids sow the destruction, but due to unknown events they are somehow disabled (some people saynit's due to a remote control). Pass 23 years from the incubation of Cell A2 and he starts his search for the androids. The A2 Trunks decides to travel to the past to change the events, however chooses 1 year before the arrival of Freeza and Cold for whatever reason. With no knowledge that there was a third android (Cell), the Trunks A2 is defeated easily by Cell A2 and this latter returns to the past to attain his perfect form. In this example the Cell A2 will travel to the past alternative B2 (explained below).

History B1 - Son Goku returns to Earth and defeats Freeza and cold. The Saiyajin dies of a heart disease and the androids #17 and #18 dominate the events until Trunks B1 travels to the past. With his return after the triumph in the past B2, the trunks B1 destroys the androids #17 and #18 and years later defeats the Cell B1, preventing him from returning to the past. In this line of events the Cell B1 is aware of the existence of Trunks B1, but the data itself is unknown.

Past alternative B2 - the Cell A2 travels to the past without being aware of the parameters of the journey and reaches this new past 1 year before the arrival of Trunks B1. Then, it happens the history portrayed in the manga, the Cell B2 is destroyed while still in larva, the Cell A2 reaches his perfect form and is defeated by Son Gohan in the Cell Games. The past alternative B2 is saved and Trunks B1 returns to his time and saves it as well.



Also, it's worth noting that, in the future Cell's timeline, Goku probably didn't die from a heart virus (considering that the future Trunks who came from yet another timeline should have obviously handed him the medicine)... he likely died because of the androids, so as far as the Trunks from Future Cell's timeline knows, Goku wouldn't be this game-changer as it was portrayed by Bulma in Future Trunks' timeline (as well as in the timeline of the future Trunks who went to future Celk's timeline)... so that could explain why that Trunks from Cell's timeline didn't try to travel to the past until he had already killed the androids... he didn't travel to the past to hand Goku the medicine, as the Goku from his timeline dies in another way. So the Trunks from Cell's timeline obviously perceived Goku in a different way compared to the aforementioned Trunkss.

Moreover, there isn't a need to have a timeline to where the Trunks from future Cell's timeline travelled to... that isn't hinted at the manga, and he could very well have destroyed the androids from his time without having to resort to traveling back in time... maybe the Trunks from Cell's timeline also found the scripts in the underground laboratory somehow, dunno.

A chart made from a member of Kanzenshuu:

I found a problem with your theory. I was watching the Anime, chapter 143 and 144. When Cell tells Piccolo about his past, he shows the scenes of Future Trunks eliminating Frieza and King Cold. Cell talks about taking cells from Frieza and King Cold. Later he says that they had the possibility of extracting the cells of a warrior named Trunks. Later Cell tells when I kill Trunks. When Future Trunks and Kirilin appear at the place of battle between Piccolo and Cell, the latter is shocked to see another Trunks and says that not only should he kill him in the future, but also on that Line. Also when Krillin realizes that Cell can use Goku's Kamehameha, Krillin says to tell Goku. Later he is surprised that Goku is still alive. That explains that Goku (Cell Line) probably died in the same way as in the Timeline of Future Trunks.

 That means that Cell knows only 2 Trunks. Maybe those scenes of Trunks killing Frieza and King Cold, they only used it to save drawings and time.

I don't think it means Cell only knows two Trunks. He hadn't interacted with the Trunks that appeared and killed Freeza and Cold... he merely knew about him from his spy robot. Notice that Cell says he will have to kill Trunks both in the future and in the past, merely referring to the ones he'll have to murder. Since he didn't lay a single fist on the Trunks that killed Freeza, it'd make sense he wouldn't consider him.

As for Goku, he didn't specify how he died, so that's still left unclear. Had him said he died from the heart virus, then yeah, we'd have a problem.

 

[SIAD]

Following this theory, this is how I think everything happened:

History A1 - Son Goku returns to Earth and defeats Freeza and Cold. The Saiyajin then dies of a heart disease and the androids # 17 and # 18 dominate the events of A1, forcing Trunks A1 to travel to the past (pretty much a parallel of Mirai Trunks' timeline). The rest of the events are unknown.

Past Alternative A2 - Trunks of the future A1 defeats Freeza and cold. However this is still not enough to prevent Son Goku's death, the androids sow the destruction, but due to unknown events they are somehow disabled (some people saynit's due to a remote control). Pass 23 years from the incubation of Cell A2 and he starts his search for the androids. The A2 Trunks decides to travel to the past to change the events, however chooses 1 year before the arrival of Freeza and Cold for whatever reason. With no knowledge that there was a third android (Cell), the Trunks A2 is defeated easily by Cell A2 and this latter returns to the past to attain his perfect form. In this example the Cell A2 will travel to the past alternative B2 (explained below).

History B1 - Son Goku returns to Earth and defeats Freeza and cold. The Saiyajin dies of a heart disease and the androids #17 and #18 dominate the events until Trunks B1 travels to the past. With his return after the triumph in the past B2, the trunks B1 destroys the androids #17 and #18 and years later defeats the Cell B1, preventing him from returning to the past. In this line of events the Cell B1 is aware of the existence of Trunks B1, but the data itself is unknown.

Past alternative B2 - the Cell A2 travels to the past without being aware of the parameters of the journey and reaches this new past 1 year before the arrival of Trunks B1. Then, it happens the history portrayed in the manga, the Cell B2 is destroyed while still in larva, the Cell A2 reaches his perfect form and is defeated by Son Gohan in the Cell Games. The past alternative B2 is saved and Trunks B1 returns to his time and saves it as well.



Also, it's worth noting that, in the future Cell's timeline, Goku probably didn't die from a heart virus (considering that the future Trunks who came from yet another timeline should have obviously handed him the medicine)... he likely died because of the androids, so as far as the Trunks from Future Cell's timeline knows, Goku wouldn't be this game-changer as it was portrayed by Bulma in Future Trunks' timeline (as well as in the timeline of the future Trunks who went to future Celk's timeline)... so that could explain why that Trunks from Cell's timeline didn't try to travel to the past until he had already killed the androids... he didn't travel to the past to hand Goku the medicine, as the Goku from his timeline dies in another way. So the Trunks from Cell's timeline obviously perceived Goku in a different way compared to the aforementioned Trunkss.

Moreover, there isn't a need to have a timeline to where the Trunks from future Cell's timeline travelled to... that isn't hinted at the manga, and he could very well have destroyed the androids from his time without having to resort to traveling back in time... maybe the Trunks from Cell's timeline also found the scripts in the underground laboratory somehow, dunno.

A chart made from a member of Kanzenshuu:

I found a problem with your theory. I was watching the Anime, chapter 143 and 144. When Cell tells Piccolo about his past, he shows the scenes of Future Trunks eliminating Frieza and King Cold. Cell talks about taking cells from Frieza and King Cold. Later he says that they had the possibility of extracting the cells of a warrior named Trunks. Later Cell tells when I kill Trunks. When Future Trunks and Kirilin appear at the place of battle between Piccolo and Cell, the latter is shocked to see another Trunks and says that not only should he kill him in the future, but also on that Line. Also when Krillin realizes that Cell can use Goku's Kamehameha, Krillin says to tell Goku. Later he is surprised that Goku is still alive. That explains that Goku (Cell Line) probably died in the same way as in the Timeline of Future Trunks.

 That means that Cell knows only 2 Trunks. Maybe those scenes of Trunks killing Frieza and King Cold, they only used it to save drawings and time.

I don't think it means Cell only knows two Trunks. He hadn't interacted with the Trunks that appeared and killed Freeza and Cold... he merely knew about him from his spy robot. Notice that Cell says he will have to kill Trunks both in the future and in the past, merely referring to the ones he'll have to murder. Since he didn't lay a single fist on the Trunks that killed Freeza, it'd make sense he wouldn't consider him.

As for Goku, he didn't specify how he died, so that's still left unclear. Had him said he died from the heart virus, then yeah, we'd have a problem.

Cell was amazed that Goku was still alive at that time. That is, in the Cell Timeline, Goku was the first to die, as in the Future Trunks Line. Everything seems to indicate that Goku had died of his heart disease a time before and not just a few days.

  Also investigate the dates of the DBZ chapters and the Warriors of the Future special, this special was launched just before the GC. Therefore, at the time when Cell told his story, not even that special had come out.

 

[ahill1]

[mention]SIAD[/mention]

Cell was also surprised upon seeing Vegeta was alive as well, noticing he wasn't killed by the androids. Only he didn't specify the reason to which Goku was killed, which lefts it still open. It's true that Cell didn't show amazement at Kuririn and co. being alive, but considering he was also surprised at Vegeta being alive, it shows Goku wasn't necessarily the first one to die on his timeline. Maybe it at most shows Vegeta and Goku died first, but that's about it.

 

[SIAD]

@SIAD

Cell was also surprised upon seeing Vegeta was alive as well, noticing he wasn't killed by the androids. Only he didn't specify the reason to which Goku was killed, which lefts it still open. It's true that Cell didn't show amazement at Kuririn and co. being alive, but considering he was also surprised at Vegeta being alive, it shows Goku wasn't necessarily the first one to die on his timeline. Maybe it at most shows Vegeta and Goku died first, but that's about it.

But the difference is that Cell realized 10 days after the arrival of the Androids that Vegeta was still alive. While Cell was impressed that Goku was still alive on the same day of the appearance of the Androids.

 

[ahill1]

@SIAD

Cell was also surprised upon seeing Vegeta was alive as well, noticing he wasn't killed by the androids. Only he didn't specify the reason to which Goku was killed, which lefts it still open. It's true that Cell didn't show amazement at Kuririn and co. being alive, but considering he was also surprised at Vegeta being alive, it shows Goku wasn't necessarily the first one to die on his timeline. Maybe it at most shows Vegeta and Goku died first, but that's about it.

But the difference is that Cell realized 10 days after the arrival of the Androids that Vegeta was still alive. While Cell was impressed that Goku was still alive on the same day of the appearance of the Androids.

He showed surprise at Vegeta being alive in the same day as he noticed how strange it is that Goku wasn't dead yet. He didn't specify when Goku should have died.

 

[SIAD]

@SIAD

Cell was also surprised upon seeing Vegeta was alive as well, noticing he wasn't killed by the androids. Only he didn't specify the reason to which Goku was killed, which lefts it still open. It's true that Cell didn't show amazement at Kuririn and co. being alive, but considering he was also surprised at Vegeta being alive, it shows Goku wasn't necessarily the first one to die on his timeline. Maybe it at most shows Vegeta and Goku died first, but that's about it.

But the difference is that Cell realized 10 days after the arrival of the Androids that Vegeta was still alive. While Cell was impressed that Goku was still alive on the same day of the appearance of the Androids.

He showed surprise at Vegeta being alive in the same day as he noticed how strange it is that Goku wasn't dead yet. He didn't specify when Goku should have died.

I translate, review the anime and the manga.

  You're right that Cell was surprised that Vegeta was still alive, the same day he was surprised that Goku was still alive.

  Even so, I found the following:

  When Cell learned that Goku was still alive, Cell says that the story is different from his timeline.

  Cell to learn that Vegeta was still alive, Cell declares 2 things, that the Androids still do not kill him and also declares that Vegeta is much more powerful than he understood.

  That means that Cell only states that Vegeta was killed by the Androids, while he does not say the same about Goku. He also states that Vegeta is much stronger than in his Timeline. In case a Future Trunks had arrived at the Cell Line, it is most likely that Vegeta (Cell Line) would be as powerful as Vegeta (Androids).

 

[ahill1]

Cell to learn that Vegeta was still alive, Cell declares 2 things, that the Androids still do not kill him and also declares that Vegeta is much more powerful than he understood.

Yeah, he specified how Vegeta was killed in the future, while he didn't do the same for Goku. But it isn't because that he didn't specify how Goku was killed that it means he being killed by the androids doesn't hold true. I mean, even if Goku died due to the heart virus, that was still some reason for why Goku was dead... Cell just chose not to go in specifics... while he chose for Vegeta, which is fine imo.

Maybe Goku dying at the androids' hands wasn't what was on Toriyama' head at the moment, and he really imtended for Cell's timeline to be a true parallel of Trunks' one, but since he left it unclear enough with that panel and with Cell not specifying why Goku was dead, I think it still has merits... and would explain nicely Cell's opinion on the androids seemingly matching the presents strength.

He also states that Vegeta is much stronger than in his Timeline. In case a Future Trunks had arrived at the Cell Line, it is most likely that Vegeta (Cell Line) would be as powerful as Vegeta (Androids).

Good point. Can't really counter that one. Nice catch.

 

[SIAD]

That's why I say that Cell Line is similar to Future Trunks. Cell by not specifying how Goku died, means that maybe he does not know how he died. For while he knew that Vegeta was killed by the Androids on that same day (in his Temporal Line). It would not be so strange that Cell did not see how Goku had died due to his heart disease.

 I saw that in the Manga chapter 363, when Cell reveals his identity, he only copied the images he had drawn in chapter 332, when Future Trunks killed Frieza and King Cold.

 Surely TOEI did not think well when he copied the scenes of Future Trunks when he killed Frieza and King Cold, at the moment that Cell revealed his identity to Piccolo.

 Whether it was an error or not, Goku was the one who killed Frieza and King Cold as well as the Cell Line and the Future Trunks Line.

I know that DBM is drawn by a Fan, but I like how it looks at the Timeline to which Trunks travels (Cell Line). In that Line, similar to the Original Line (without the arrival of a Cell to that Line), the Androids end up being friends of the Z Warriors, Trunks returns to its Timeline (Cell Line), kills those Androids with control remote and just as Trunks was starting to prepare the ship, Cell kills him and presses the button to leave and travels to the Original Line. The question of many is why that Trunks wanted to travel to another past? The answer would be, Trunks was selecting the time and out of nowhere Cell appeared (Trunks could not quite select the year he wanted to travel to) and Cell killed him.

 I do not remember what page said that in that "Past", there was a CG without a Future Trunks. If we go with the logic of DBM, it could make sense, the Z Warriors would not be as strong as in the Original Line, as there were no Ki so big, Babidi did not care about Earth. 24 years passed, Cell was born and absorbed the Androids.

 As for the main theme, I would say that the Androids of the Original and past lines to which Trunks travels (Cell Line), are good, but much more powerful. Future Trunks SSJ (Androids) is amply exceeded by these.

 The Androids Cell Line and Future Trunks Line are bad, but not so powerful. Future Trunks SSJ (Androids) is a distant rival to them.