Kaguya runs a Goku Gauntlet

[Captain Cadaver]

How isn't it as impressive compared to destroying our moon? You have no evidence to claim such thing.
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Scaling is also not the best thing in the world.
That feat is analysed from their scales of the island. It should be much more impressive if they were using the real size of the island.
You're really going overboard. The absolute top tiers of the verse are MHS+ and the people you just mentioned are HS at the best. Sage Mode Naruto couldn't move from where he was to Pain in five seconds, and he's not far from the people you just listed. So there's that I guess.

Because Roshi already destroyed a moon before, yet was weaker than Piccolo Daimao who was, at best, a City Buster and even required straining his hand somewhat to wipe away a Town sized area.

If you don't want it scaled, then what was the point in even bringing up that speed feat?

Well, you did provide good evidence for the island point, I'll give you that. However, Piccolo clearly didn't destroy the island completely, so classifying it as a small continent level feat is still sketchy at best. It wouldn't matter anyway, since via scaling from Rikudo Sennin creating the moon as well as the power of some of the Jubi's Bijudama, anyone on Rikudo tier in Naruto is moon level anyway.

As already shown by FP, there are indeed Naruto characters with Lightning speed attacks, so there are a few characters who are that level. I'd like to see the feat in question you're referring to in order to judge it. I'm sure there's just as many low brow feats within DB too for movement and the like, especially in the Boo Arc.

 

[Abel]

How isn't it as impressive compared to destroying our moon? You have no evidence to claim such thing.
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Scaling is also not the best thing in the world.
That feat is analysed from their scales of the island. It should be much more impressive if they were using the real size of the island.
You're really going overboard. The absolute top tiers of the verse are MHS+ and the people you just mentioned are HS at the best. Sage Mode Naruto couldn't move from where he was to Pain in five seconds, and he's not far from the people you just listed. So there's that I guess.

Because Roshi already destroyed a moon before, yet was weaker than Piccolo Daimao who was, at best, a City Buster and even required straining his hand somewhat to wipe away a Town sized area.

If you don't want it scaled, then what was the point in even bringing up that speed feat?

Well, you did provide good evidence for the island point, I'll give you that. However, Piccolo clearly didn't destroy the island completely, so classifying it as a small continent level feat is still sketchy at best. It wouldn't matter anyway, since via scaling from Rikudo Sennin creating the moon as well as the power of some of the Jubi's Bijudama, anyone on Rikudo tier in Naruto is moon level anyway.

As already shown by FP, there are indeed Naruto characters with Lightning speed attacks, so there are a few characters who are that level. I'd like to see the feat in question you're referring to in order to judge it. I'm sure there's just as many low brow feats within DB too for movement and the like, especially in the Boo Arc.

Piccolo Daimao destroyed a city without much trouble. That wasn't a town area considering that in Japan, cities tend to stick to each other. Even the mayor said that the city disappeared, further proving my claim. His large city busting blast was done when he was drained and the blast was huge that it dwarfed mountains if I remember correctly (or at least was comparable in size).

Because they scaled it using the size of the island they calculated it to be, which was smaller than what was stated.

Wasn't the island was stated to be "island sized" and the attack was island level? Anyway, you could write it off as country level or around it. No one said it was small continent level.

No one in Naruto is Rikudo level besides Kaguya, and creating the moon doesn't mean he has the outright power to destroy it. That's why Sasuke actually used Indra's Arrow instead of Chibaku Tensei against Naruto. The huge Juubi Bijuudama is small country level.

Sasuke's Kirin was real lightning, so it will have the properties of real lightning. Black Zetsu who's probably the oldest said that no one in the Naruto world could dodge real lightning.

But the five second thing was a big deal at that time. Also there's sixth gate Gai having supersonic attacks. The movement speed in Dragon Ball is inconsistent. There are a lot of examples.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

[No message]

 

[Papasmurf]

Rasen Shuriken has limits as shown by it being tanked by one of the Kages, and it being unable to deal the same damage it did to Kakuzu when Kurama was hit by it. I highly doubt anybody in DBZ with a power above 150 will be hurt by such an attack.

All-killing Ash Bones and Dust Release, I can see them working. Although, only the former would guarantee an instant-kill as DR is too easy to avoid (Madara only let it graze him on purpose). Ash-Bones wouldn't be of much use either once its killing properties have been exposed, since that's like arguing an infant can kill a trained boxer if he has a bottle of fatal poison in his hands.

 

[FutureProtagonist]

I highly doubt anybody in DBZ with a power above 150 will be hurt by such an attack.

The sentiment I'm getting here is that Naruto characters, in terms of absolute power, are vastly inferior to DBZ characters. I don't really see that. They are vastly inferior in terms of destructive power, true, but they're comparable, and sometimes have an advantage in other aspects. Madara, for example is able to follow Guy's movements at light speed, his truth-seeking balls can almost outpace a presumably not that much slower Guy, other characters (Minato), are fast enough to keep up with those movements and act quickly enough to meaningfully counter them. I don't think there's much evidence of DBZ characters doing the same, at least not in the manga. Even weak-ish characters like Kisame can withstand ridiculously powerful physical attacks, like Daytime Tiger without dying. Just going by visuals, Guy seems to be on par with SSJ3 Gotenks, or at least Freeza Arc Goku, in terms of pure physical strength.

Besides, even the nature of the ash bones is revealed, Kaguya has the means to ensure her opponent can't dodge them. In the manga, this was the gravity dimension. Kaguya isn't an infant to Goku's professional boxer; she's ridiculously fast, has unrestricted teleportation, and can alter the battlefield however she likes. Speed is what really matters in these fights, both sides have instant kill abilities, and speed is what's going to determine whether or not they can land a hit with one of them. Kaguya's entire strategy is to use her teleportation and special dimensions to line up said instant kill. It should work on a DBZ character too.

Still, any Naruto character would have trouble getting through an explosive wave attack like Piccolo used at the 23rd Budokai. I can see them pretty easily dodging most ki attacks, but that kind of power would make it nearly impossible for them to get close, and would probably vaporize any projectiles as well. They wouldn't be able to compete with destructive powers of their own. Genjutsu would be a good counter, as long as they can activate it from outside the blast radius. Although, that particular example (Piccolo's attack) seemed pretty weak; all it did was burn the concrete off the ring, it didn't even create any kind of crater.

 

[Abel]

[No message]

 

[Itachi]

Neither of them has the sheer power, durability, and speed to reach there. Naruto would get undoubtedly defeated by BoZ Goku, and Kaguya by Raditz.

Confirmed to be at Saiyan Saga Nappa's level? Prove it.

Since I've already given tons of evidence on DBZF, and despite all that you still feel so strongly, I'll just summarize. If you bring up the same counters that I've already countered on F then I'll just pass and let this thread go to majority rule as it is.

• Naruto is shown to be near his father's speed through multiple comparisons. At least in short bursts through which he can maintain it.
  Most of DB feats you'll bring up for speed have been debunked as overanalysis here: http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8493518/1/ Also, the speed of the moon blast has been contradicted by faster blasts that have a lower speed than it (eg Nappa's blast against Gohan; canonically faster and stronger yet total speed lower than moon blast
  
• Goku/Vegeta may have a higher DC and would likely obliterate Naruto if they hit him with a decently charged blast. Issue? Naruto is too fast and perceptive.
  
• Naruto is physically stronger than Goku. 40 tons is not an outlier no matter how many muscle group irrelevant DB feats you bring in. If Naruto can force a close combat only battle, he'd easily take the cake right up until around monster Zarbon.

But we do not exactly know how near. That statement could have been used to hype how fast Naruto have become. Shall I bring the supersonic 6th Gate Gai feat?

Not exactly right .

I don't think they need to even charge their blasts to be honest. They're quite fast too.

Then show me Naruto physically destroying multiple plateaus by jumping. I don't care much about the 40 tons feat, considering it's a lifting feat. You can explain it in a lot of ways, but not going to waste a second there again.

There are multiple statements though, so I'd say the evidence is slighted towards Naruto being closer to Minato rather than farther. Regardless there are no speed comparisons anywhere near in that in DB and DBZ (although I guess you can argue for towards the end of the series).

A generic ki blast hasn't shown to do much damage. It'd need a least a bit of charge of which Sage Naruto should have the reflexes to gauge and dodge easily.

I'll agree with you that 40 tons is just a lifting feat. It doesn't mean much in terms of striking strength. I'm surprised you finally agreed to that. Naruto can't destroy multiple plateaus by jumping... But neither can Goku, IIRC. Naruto in sage mode should at least be on par with Tsunade's striking feats of which are above anything we've seen in DB.

 

[Papasmurf]

The sentiment I'm getting here is that Naruto characters, in terms of absolute power, are vastly inferior to DBZ characters. I don't really see that. They are vastly inferior in terms of destructive power, true, but they're comparable, and sometimes have an advantage in other aspects. Madara, for example is able to follow Guy's movements at light speed,

This is where I call BS, sorry. Dragon Ball characters have shown planet busting feats at Saiyan arc Vegeta level and first form Freeza comfortably planet busts, while far greater feats including solar system busting have been stated before. All of them through pure destructive power from a humanoid-sized fighter. That's power the likes of which Naruto or Sasuke, both of whom readily contend with the absolute top dogs in Naruto's series, can't dream of. The only destruction feat I can name in Naruto that has similar or greater range was Kaguya's final attack, which being her last resort (far removed from her other busting feats), isn't being used until she has no choice. Furthermore, it was thwarted without much fanfare by Sasuke and Naruto, whose destructive power even with Bijuus assimilated during their battle was a firecracker to any of the more impressive attacks in Dragon Ball Z. Honestly, you're far overrating Naruto's speed and power capacities based purely on visual depiction - which Toriyama stated in an interview he was no longer able to escalate after the Saiyan arc when planet busters were introduced.

Furthermore, Guy's speed, beyond the distortion effect it caused, can by no means reach light speed because no meaningful environmental hazard or instant crossing of distance that denotes light speed was actually depicted. (You can travel across the Earth nearly 8 times in one second at LS)

We don't know what level of speed causes dimensional distortion, or whether or not such even requires such massive power since Mangekyo Sharingan techniques (lower ranked than the Rinnegan) can cause wormholes, and Guy's speed wasn't such that Kakashi with the Sharingan did not even realize what was happening. (Note that Kakashi had trouble keeping up with the Rasen Shuriken's cellular destruction thing.) Furthermore, traveling at light speed would literally cause the people around them to be virtually motionless (nearly mimicking time travel). Until you can sufficiently prove such events occurred with Guy's attack, that whole point about reaction speed is moot.

his truth-seeking balls can almost outpace a presumably not that much slower Guy, other characters (Minato), are fast enough to keep up with those movements and act quickly enough to meaningfully counter them. I don't think there's much evidence of DBZ characters doing the same, at least not in the manga. Even weak-ish characters like Kisame can withstand ridiculously powerful physical attacks, like Daytime Tiger without dying. Just going by visuals, Guy seems to be on par with SSJ3 Gotenks, or at least Freeza Arc Goku, in terms of pure physical strength.

Minato's speed is only such that he only outpaced Tobi, who Konan could track with her naked eyes. DBZ characters have definitely dodged objectively much quicker strikes. Also, using visuals for power feats isn't a great argument because you end up with Fat Boo only busting 1/10th of the Earth while Saiyan and Freeza arc characters repeatedly use attacks of planet-scale destruction. Guy's power being on par with SSJ3 Gotenks is also pure nonsense considering that SSJ3 Goku alone caused his power to be felt across dimensions, the only power-related feat that wasn't demonstrated before in the Dragon Ball manga - and far surpassing the likes of the solar system-destroying Cell who outside of filler wasn't even felt on Namek. Gotenks' sheer superiority implied by the manga makes the comparison between Guy and himself ludicrous, sorry to say.

Besides, even the nature of the ash bones is revealed, Kaguya has the means to ensure her opponent can't dodge them. In the manga, this was the gravity dimension. Kaguya isn't an infant to Goku's professional boxer; she's ridiculously fast, has unrestricted teleportation, and can alter the battlefield however she likes. Speed is what really matters in these fights, both sides have instant kill abilities, and speed is what's going to determine whether or not they can land a hit with one of them. Kaguya's entire strategy is to use her teleportation and special dimensions to line up said instant kill. It should work on a DBZ character too.

The gravity dimension that she herself isn't immune to? Yeah, no...

Another thing is that her repeated attempts at altering the battlefield isn't any different to Babidi's ability to do the same, except that to attack her opponent she would need to remain on the same dimension as them, which certifiably makes her an instant-victim to Goku's Shunkan Idou. She also has nothing on Goku's speed considering that pre-RoSaT SSJ Gotenks was shown to travel at least a dozen times across the Earth casually and take a nap afterwards in the span of a half-hour, speed which Goku certainly surpasses by a great deal in the God movies and the end of the series. Given that Kaguya's fallen victim to Naruto's attacks and was hit by Kakashi's Kamui, her speed is virtually meaningless here.

Still, any Naruto character would have trouble getting through an explosive wave attack like Piccolo used at the 23rd Budokai. I can see them pretty easily dodging most ki attacks, but that kind of power would make it nearly impossible for them to get close, and would probably vaporize any projectiles as well. They wouldn't be able to compete with destructive powers of their own. Genjutsu would be a good counter, as long as they can activate it from outside the blast radius. Although, that particular example (Piccolo's attack) seemed pretty weak; all it did was burn the concrete off the ring, it didn't even create any kind of crater.

It did destroy all the buildings on the island and cause tsunamis I guess... though that's not all too relevant as that's very early on in Dragon Ball's timeline.

 

[FutureProtagonist]

This is where I call BS, sorry. Dragon Ball characters have shown planet busting feats at Saiyan arc Vegeta level and first form Freeza comfortably planet busts, while far greater feats including solar system busting have been stated before. Allt of them through pure destructive power from a humanoid-sized fighter. That's power the likes of which Naruto or Sasuke, both of whom readily contend with the absolute top dogs in Naruto's series, and the only destruction feat I can name in Naruto that has similar or greater range was Kaguya's final attack, which being her last resort (far removed from her other busting feats), isn't that relevant.

And yet, they take damage from strikes that don't nearly destroy planets. Goku can bust a planet, but he can't bicep curl ten tons, nor does he have any particularly impressive speed feats. There's just one massive divide between his destructive power and everything else about him.

Furthermore, Guy's speed, beyond the distortion effect it caused, can by no means reach light speed because no meaningful environmental hazard or instant crossing of distance that denotes light speed was actually depicted. (You can travel across the Earth nearly 8 times in one second at LS)

The distortion effect is enough; him not crossing any serious distance only means he was at light speed for a very, very short period of time, not that he wasn't at light speed.

We don't know what level of speed causes dimensional distortion, or whether or not such even requires such massive power since Mangekyo Sharingan techniques (lower ranked than the Rinnegan) can cause wormholes, and Guy's speed wasn't such that Kakashi with the Sharingan did not even realize what was happening. (Note that Kakashi had trouble keeping up with the Rasen Shuriken's cellular destruction thing.) Furthermore, traveling at light speed would literally cause the people around them to be virtually motionless (nearly mimicking time travel). Until you can sufficiently prove such events occurred with Guy's attack, that whole point about reaction speed is moot.

The Mangekyo Sharingan's ability to create wormhole isn't comparable to Guy's ability to distort space; the difference is that the Sharingan is magic, Guy's abilities are totally mundane. Any kind of physical phenoma caused by Guy springs from pure physical ability, the same cannot be said of the Sharingan or any chakra techniques.

Like I said, Guy distorting space with pure movement, is enough to prove that he moves at light speed; the only who seemed to be able to follow Guy's movements was Madara. Kakashi had no idea what happened. He was only moving at that speed for two panels anyway. Until you can prove that more than (a really short time) passed during those two panels, you haven't disproven Guy's speed. The line about distortion is only there to give us an idea of how fast he is, the Mangekyo Sharingan is rather pedestrian at that point. Remember, space and time and woven together, if Guy can bend space, he can also bend time, which I do believe FTL travel is supposed to be able to do. I'm not brilliantly educated on it, though.

Minato's speed is only such that he only outpaced Tobi, who Konan could track with her naked eyes. DBZ characters have definitely dodged objectively much quicker strikes. Also, using visuals for power feats isn't a great argument because you end up with Fat Boo only busting 1/10th of the Earth while Saiyan and Freeza arc characters repeatedly use attacks of planet-scale destruction. Guy's power being on par with SSJ3 Gotenks is also pure nonsense considering that SSJ3 Goku alone caused his power to be felt across dimensions, the only power-related feat that wasn't demonstrated before in the Dragon Ball manga - and far surpassing the likes of the solar system-destroying Cell who outside of filler wasn't even felt on Namek. Gotenks' sheer superiority implied by the manga makes the comparison between Guy and himself ludicrous, sorry to say.

Objectively quicker? How do you figure that? Do you have examples? Minato has the speed to follow Eight Gates Guy (not lightspeed, but faster than Madara, who can follow Night Guy), and use his teleportation quickly enough to teleport in front him of him, grab the truth-seeking balls, and teleport back before Guy moves much more than a few feet. That's incredible reaction speed. It's not the teleportation, it's the ability to meaningfully use the teleportation against the kind of speed.

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Now the Gotenks thing, what you're saying seems to have a lot of hype behind it, so to speak. Comparing Goku's power being felt across dimensions to anything in Narutoverse, or even using it to come to a conclusion about their physical powers doesn't work. So his power can be felt in another dimension. How can we come to any kind of conclusion about their power based on that? Fat Boo only destroys 1/10 of the earth because he can control his ki and limit its destructive ability; the same can't be said of punches and, in this case, what Gotenks did to Super Boo. Once Gotenks punches Boo into the ground, Gotenks no longer has any control over Super Boo's movements towards the ground, nor the shockwaves that his landing emits. The crater he created is the sum total of his physical strength. Guy's physical feats are plenty impressive, perhaps not on Gotenks's level, but at least above Namek Arc Goku's kicking Freeza through islands feat.

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The gravity dimension that she herself isn't immune to? Yeah, no...

She used it for that exact purpose in the manga.

Another thing is that her repeated attempts at altering the battlefield isn't any different to Babidi's ability to do the same, except that to attack her opponent she would need to remain on the same dimension as them, which certifiably makes her an instant-victim to Goku's Shunkan Idou. She also has nothing on Goku's speed considering that pre-RoSaT SSJ Gotenks was shown to travel at least a dozen times across the Earth casually and take a nap afterwards in the span of a half-hour, speed which Goku certainly surpasses by a great deal in the God movies and the end of the series. Given that Kaguya's fallen victim to Naruto's attacks and was hit by Kakashi's Kamui, her speed is virtually meaningless here.

Babidi can do that, but he can't use it to get around himself, plus she has dimensions specifically created for fighting, while Babidi does not. Naruto's attacks aren't automatically slower than DBZ, same goes for Kakashi. He was powered up to near-Madara levels at that point.

As for the speed, well, Gotenks isn't light speed. SSJ3 Gotenks, and people above him are faster, of course, but by how much exactly? That's the problem. Given Gotenks's speed, we can say for certain that speed does not perfectly scale with battle powers, given the legitimate Snake Way speed calculations. SSJ Goku on Namek would have to be 18,750 times faster than Saiyan Arc Goku (150 mil vs 8,000), which would make him way faster than Gotenks. As such, any talk of their speeds, to the best of my knowledge, is pure speculation. Unless we're talking anime/GT, although even that is a bit questionable, there's nothing that really helps us gauge their speed afterwards. It didn't seem as though Gohan-Boo could make it across the planet very quickly, though.

 

[Abel]

Since I've already given tons of evidence on DBZF, and despite all that you still feel so strongly, I'll just summarize. If you bring up the same counters that I've already countered on F then I'll just pass and let this thread go to majority rule as it is.

• Naruto is shown to be near his father's speed through multiple comparisons. At least in short bursts through which he can maintain it.
  Most of DB feats you'll bring up for speed have been debunked as overanalysis here: http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8493518/1/ Also, the speed of the moon blast has been contradicted by faster blasts that have a lower speed than it (eg Nappa's blast against Gohan; canonically faster and stronger yet total speed lower than moon blast
  
• Goku/Vegeta may have a higher DC and would likely obliterate Naruto if they hit him with a decently charged blast. Issue? Naruto is too fast and perceptive.
  
• Naruto is physically stronger than Goku. 40 tons is not an outlier no matter how many muscle group irrelevant DB feats you bring in. If Naruto can force a close combat only battle, he'd easily take the cake right up until around monster Zarbon.

But we do not exactly know how near. That statement could have been used to hype how fast Naruto have become. Shall I bring the supersonic 6th Gate Gai feat?

Not exactly right .

I don't think they need to even charge their blasts to be honest. They're quite fast too.

Then show me Naruto physically destroying multiple plateaus by jumping. I don't care much about the 40 tons feat, considering it's a lifting feat. You can explain it in a lot of ways, but not going to waste a second there again.

There are multiple statements though, so I'd say the evidence is slighted towards Naruto being closer to Minato rather than farther. Regardless there are no speed comparisons anywhere near in that in DB and DBZ (although I guess you can argue for towards the end of the series).

A generic ki blast hasn't shown to do much damage. It'd need a least a bit of charge of which Sage Naruto should have the reflexes to gauge and dodge easily.

I'll agree with you that 40 tons is just a lifting feat. It doesn't mean much in terms of striking strength. I'm surprised you finally agreed to that. Naruto can't destroy multiple plateaus by jumping... But neither can Goku, IIRC. Naruto in sage mode should at least be on par with Tsunade's striking feats of which are above anything we've seen in DB.

You can move at the speed of light, towards a door that's in front of you , but never reach it. You would get closer and closer to reach the door, until there's a millionth of a meter between you and the door, but never really reach 0 meters away from the door. You could argue that Naruto's speed was impressive and that a bunch of no bodies could compare it to that of Minato's.

A generic ki blast could destroy the moon (Piccolo). How would Sage Naruto have the reflexes to dodge it so easily? 23rd TB Piccolo ki blast, while being exhausted, could cross most of the island in a panel. That's coming from an exhausted Piccolo from way back in the 23rd TB. Show me sage mode Naruto dodging something comparable and I'll concede.

I recall him jumping, and the plateau that he was standing on and the one Vegeta was standing on got destroyed, and I think one or none of the surrounding plateaus too. When I went to check, I didn't find that, but I found that Goku destroyed the plateau that he was standing on by jumping.

Tsunade's feats aren't much. At the best, she's multi-city block level.

 

[Itachi]

You can move at the speed of light, towards a door that's in front of you , but never reach it. You would get closer and closer to reach the door, until there's a millionth of a meter between you and the door, but never really reach 0 meters away from the door.

I'm pretty sure it doesn't work that way.

You could argue that Naruto's speed was impressive and that a bunch of no bodies could compare it to that of Minato's.

Raikage is hardly a nobody, seeing that he could keep up with Minato

A generic ki blast could destroy the moon (Piccolo).

Wasn't Piccolo huffing after the blast? It was hardly a casual ki blast, it was Makansappo, his signature move.

How would Sage Naruto have the reflexes to dodge it so easily? 23rd TB Piccolo ki blast, while being exhausted, could cross most of the island in a panel. That's coming from an exhausted Piccolo from way back in the 23rd TB. Show me sage mode Naruto dodging something comparable and I'll concede.

Well fair point that Sage Naruto doesn't have any specific feat that puts him at some high tier reflexes, but Madara certainly does being able to dodge a teleportation technique buy Tobirama via sage mode.

I recall him jumping, and the plateau that he was standing on and the one Vegeta was standing on got destroyed, and I think one or none of the surrounding plateaus too. When I went to check, I didn't find that, but I found that Goku destroyed the plateau that he was standing on by jumping.

Can you cite the source? I can't remember it.

Tsunade's feats aren't much. At the best, she's multi-city block level.

That's more than enough to hurt Goku right up until post Zenkai @ Namek. There aren't any serious physical feats before then.

 

[Son Gokū]

Naruto is more versatile than Kaguya IMO, so he'd get farther than her. Somewhere around monster zarbon for Naruto and around Saiyan Saga Vegeta for Kaguya.

Neither of them has the sheer power, durability, and speed to reach there. Naruto would get undoubtedly defeated by BoZ Goku, and Kaguya by Raditz.

She's well beyond Six Sage Madara, who was confirmed at Saiyan Saga Nappa's level. So I'd her around Saiyan Saga Vegeta level (not Great Ape). That means I'd stand a chance with a 4x Kaio-Ken during the Saiyan Saga.

Confirmed to be at Saiyan Saga Nappa's level? Prove it.

The author announced it himself. Go on and give it a quick Google search.

 

[Abel]

You can move at the speed of light, towards a door that's in front of you , but never reach it. You would get closer and closer to reach the door, until there's a millionth of a meter between you and the door, but never really reach 0 meters away from the door.

I'm pretty sure it doesn't work that way.

You could argue that Naruto's speed was impressive and that a bunch of no bodies could compare it to that of Minato's.

Raikage is hardly a nobody, seeing that he could keep up with Minato

A generic ki blast could destroy the moon (Piccolo).

Wasn't Piccolo huffing after the blast? It was hardly a casual ki blast, it was Makansappo, his signature move.

How would Sage Naruto have the reflexes to dodge it so easily? 23rd TB Piccolo ki blast, while being exhausted, could cross most of the island in a panel. That's coming from an exhausted Piccolo from way back in the 23rd TB. Show me sage mode Naruto dodging something comparable and I'll concede.

Well fair point that Sage Naruto doesn't have any specific feat that puts him at some high tier reflexes, but Madara certainly does being able to dodge a teleportation technique buy Tobirama via sage mode.

I recall him jumping, and the plateau that he was standing on and the one Vegeta was standing on got destroyed, and I think one or none of the surrounding plateaus too. When I went to check, I didn't find that, but I found that Goku destroyed the plateau that he was standing on by jumping.

Can you cite the source? I can't remember it.

Tsunade's feats aren't much. At the best, she's multi-city block level.

That's more than enough to hurt Goku right up until post Zenkai @ Namek. There aren't any serious physical feats before then.

Well that's what my teacher told me.

The Raikage's statement holds truth that Naruto moves at speeds comparable to Minato, but he doesn't move at the speed of his teleportation.

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It wasn't his signature move, and yeah he was huffing, but that doesn't always mean he was tired from the blast. Gohan was wrecking the place and Piccolo was really concerned. Give him a break.

With Madara's Sage Mode, he could sense and have some kind of precog. He teleported, but to actually attack, he has to move. That's why Madara could dodge that attack.

Sure thing .

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Here, the anime shows it better.

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Multi-city block level feats hurting Goku at that time? I'll agree it would to pre-22nd TB Goku, but that's insane to say that Goku from that time would get hurt by such attacks.

Naruto is more versatile than Kaguya IMO, so he'd get farther than her. Somewhere around monster zarbon for Naruto and around Saiyan Saga Vegeta for Kaguya.

Neither of them has the sheer power, durability, and speed to reach there. Naruto would get undoubtedly defeated by BoZ Goku, and Kaguya by Raditz.

She's well beyond Six Sage Madara, who was confirmed at Saiyan Saga Nappa's level. So I'd her around Saiyan Saga Vegeta level (not Great Ape). That means I'd stand a chance with a 4x Kaio-Ken during the Saiyan Saga.

Confirmed to be at Saiyan Saga Nappa's level? Prove it.

The author announced it himself. Go on and give it a quick Google search.

Couldn't find anything.