kaiba (w/o obelisk) vs doll (marik)

[Papasmurf]

Most of the counters were cards they already showed in earlier duels though. That's why when we see cards that were never foreshadowed before and really have no place in the decks, we generally call those asspull cards. (Ex: Gilford the Lightning, a card stronger than Red-Eyes being in Jonouchi's deck all along)

 

[Fantastische Hure]

or cards that sort-of become staples (is that wot u call that?) later-on like black-magician-girl card i think i think

 

[Papasmurf]

I wouldn't call Black Magician Girl an asspull card (except maybe in the sense that it's contrived that Pandora didn't know about it). Yugi was seen purchasing cards in his date with Anzu, so you can just say he got lucky and got some new cards for Battle City. Plus, Takahashi later gave Magician Girl a backstory in the Memory World arc. An asspull would be if Grandpa Muto had another Blue-Eyes or something even stronger, which doesn't fit in with him considering the card invincible pre-Duelist Kingdom.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

he had exodia i think

 

[Papasmurf]

he had exodia i think

Exodia isn't one card

 

[Pyro]

Virus Cannon would take care of Nightmare's Steelcage as long as it was played early enough. Or use Stop Defense to switch Revival Jam to ATK mode and get a 1500+ point strike that way (or Final Attack Orders). Cloning also would be able to make a duplicate of Revival Jam, so Kaiba would have a broken regenerator on his side of the field.

 

[Papasmurf]

Kaiba only showed Virus Cannon in his duel with Ishizu, and Cloning and Final Attack Orders against Yugi. It seems that both Yugi and Kaiba changed their decks significantly after their first duels in the Battle City Finals, judging by the fact that Yugi's duel against Bakura was the first time he even played Osiris (and by the time he fought Kaiba, he'd thought up ways to quickly gather Tributes like the King/Queen/Jack knights). Kaiba also never displayed use of the XYZ magnet monsters against Ishizu, as his deck in that duel was seemingly focused on forcing the opponent to Deck Out using Crush Card and Virus Cannon rather than decimating them with powerful monsters like the Blue Eyes variations and XYZ. (Albeit, he had Soul Exchange as a quick trump card to summon Obelisk.) Furthermore, Kaiba openly stated that he added Fiend's Sanctuary to his deck as a counter to Marik's Ra, which he didn't have intel on until after Mokuba took a satellite photo of it after Marik's duel against Mai.

 

[SSJ2]

Kaiba loses.

 

[Pyro]

Why?

 

[SSJ2]

Unless he gets some heart of the cards bullshit that allows him to stop Marik's combo, I can't see it.

 

[Pyro]

Kaiba's essentially Atem's equal unless he's up against the Big Bad, and though Strings was a vessel for Marik, it wasn't technically the Big Bad. I have no doubt Kaiba would pull his Virus Cannon or some other bullshit to stop the combo.

 

[Animelover5487]

It happens. Remember that Jonouchi soundly lost to Rishid/Odion but went on to almost defeat Yami Marik with his strongest Ra deck. People acting in character will tend to make the outcomes of duels a lot more complex than just the ol' shonen A > B > C formula.

I think Jonouchi just bricked against Odion. Gilford was his boss monster, if he had drew into it he could have tributes the monsters he won before Seeker absorbed them and used it's destruction effect to destroy it and attack for game but because the plot needed Marik to be a dumbass and force Odion to play fake!Ra they had to put Joey on the verge of losing.

[[quote: His biggest feat before that was beating Bandit Keith though,]]

I would say his biggest feat before that was beating Weevil. That insect lock strategy he used in BC was definitely a far better improvement over the plays he was making against Atem.



[[quote: In the Jap dub Ishizu commented that Kaiba had now become a true owner of an Egyptian God after defeating her.]]

But Kaiba only defeated Ishizu because the Millennium Rod basically told Kaiba to play Blue-Eyes otherwise he would have lost.

 

[Papasmurf]

I think Jonouchi just bricked against Odion. Gilford was his boss monster, if he had drew into it he could have tributes the monsters he won before Seeker absorbed them and used it's destruction effect to destroy it and attack for game but because the plot needed Marik to be a dumbass and force Odion to play fake!Ra they had to put Joey on the verge of losing.

Still proves the point that a less skilled Duelist like Jonouchi can be on the verge of victory against a more skilled Duelist given the right circumstances. A lot of losses in general could be attributed to "plot." For instance, Atem still had 4 cards in his hand before Silent Magician attacked him and won the duel (which was 6 cards in the manga), if any of those cards happened to be a 4-star Monster card he could have outlasted Yugi with how many card drawing effects the latter used.

I would say his biggest feat before that was beating Weevil. That insect lock strategy he used in BC was definitely a far better improvement over the plays he was making against Atem.

He almost lost against Mako though. If Mako has resurrected Fortress Whale he could have won.

[[quote: In the Jap dub Ishizu commented that Kaiba had now become a true owner of an Egyptian God after defeating her.]]

But Kaiba only defeated Ishizu because the Millennium Rod basically told Kaiba to play Blue-Eyes otherwise he would have lost.

Ishizu said so herself. I'm citing her words, not my own interpretation. And Ishizu was only winning since she knew every card they'd draw and each of Kaiba's moves beforehand.

 

[Animelover5487]

Still proves the point that a less skilled Duelist like Jonouchi can be on the verge of victory against a more skilled Duelist given the right circumstances. A lot of losses in general could be attributed to "plot." For instance, Atem still had 4 cards in his hand before Silent Magician attacked him and won the duel (which was 6 cards in the manga), if any of those cards happened to be a 4-star Monster card he could have outlasted Yugi with how many card drawing effects the latter used.

He almost lost against Mako though. If Mako has resurrected Fortress Whale he could have won.

Ishizu said so herself. I'm citing her words, not my own interpretation. And Ishizu was only winning since she knew every card they'd draw and each of Kaiba's moves beforehand.

Fortress Whale is a ritual monster, rm can't be resurrected from the grave.

The Millennium Necklace isn't like the Eye, it doesn't tell you outcomes that haven't already happened. Ishizu was just playing moves that the necklace already invisioned would turn out.

 

[Papasmurf]

Fortress Whale is a ritual monster, rm can't be resurrected from the grave.

Pretty sure Ritual monsters and special summon monsters can be resurrected if properly summoned first. You just can't discard and then revive them directly from the grave like normal monsters.

The Millennium Necklace isn't like the Eye, it doesn't tell you outcomes that haven't already happened. Ishizu was just playing moves that the necklace already invisioned would turn out.

It tells you the future outright. Ishizu knew every card Kaiba would draw or play until the Rod forced him to change his mind at the last second.

 

[Animelover5487]

Pretty sure Ritual monsters and special summon monsters can be resurrected if properly summoned first. You just can't discard and then revive them directly from the grave like normal monsters.

It tells you the future outright. Ishizu knew every card Kaiba would draw or play until the Rod forced him to change his mind at the last second.

Do you have know of any examples in the anime and manga where a ritual summoned monsters was revived? And it would need to be post-DK since duelists were pretty much doing what they want in that arc. I know, in real life ritual monsters can't be revived and the BC arc was trying to make the ruling closer to real life to advertise the card game.

Yeah it tells you the future, that just means Ishizu knew she would win. Say, Ishizu didn't have the necklace, the duel would still play out the same way because that's what destiny predicted and Ishizu was just following her invision.

 

[Papasmurf]

Do you have know of any examples in the anime and manga where a ritual summoned monsters was revived? And it would need to be post-DK since duelists were pretty much doing what they want in that arc. I know, in real life ritual monsters can't be revived and the BC arc was trying to make the ruling closer to real life to advertise the card game.

In real life, Ritual Monsters can be re-summoned via Monster Reborn or some other resurrecting spell/trap/monster effect, as long as you properly Ritual summoned it to begin with:

How Ritual Summons Work

Ritual Monsters have been around since the release of Spell Ruler, but in all of Dueling there aren’t that many of them. Thanks to the Gishki monsters in Hidden Arsenal 5: Steelswarm Invasion, Ritu…

yugiohblog.konami.com

It's a lot like how Atem was able to revive Dark Necrofear since Bakura already properly met summoning conditions before it was destroyed and send to the grave.

Yeah it tells you the future, that just means Ishizu knew she would win. Say, Ishizu didn't have the necklace, the duel would still play out the same way because that's what destiny predicted and Ishizu was just following her invision.

That's debatable tbh. Ishizu had the perfect counter to Kaiba's Virus Cannon combo since she already knew when and how he'd use it. Knowing the future is a definite advantage. Although it could also be argued that it was Ishizu's downfall, since if she hadn't summoned the third monster to bait Kaiba into using Soul Exchange to summon Obelisk and just directly attacked him instead, she'd have won regardless. But if she didn't know the future then she couldn't have known that Kaiba's facedown card was Soul Exchange and would take a huge gamble by directly attacking him when it could be a Trap card, so...