Kaio-Ken 1.5x confirmed?

[GSM123]

From Daizenshuu 2's "Final Battle" section:

 

[Captain Cadaver]

It would contradict Goku's explanation of the Kaioken if such a level existed and Kaioken x2 wasn't 2x it. It's worth noting that the Daizenshuu entry doesn't ignore that Galu had to revert back to his base self before using x2, so this could be a case of the Daizenshuu being inconsistent with its wording, much akin to it flip-flopping between Gohan being an SSJ against Dabura and then saying he was an SS2 in Daizenshuu 3 and 7 respectively.

 

[SSJ2]

Nope. Manga tells us it’s 2x.

 

[Future Warrior]

IIRC games such as Raging Blast would make the distinction between Kaio-Ken and Kaio-Ken x2 but now it's usually Kaio-Ken to Kaio-Ken x3.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

Kaioken allowing you to increase your power by any factor between two integers makes more sense, since numbers are human inventions; chi doesn't 'know' about them. Plus it gives Vegeta's power up sequence some meaning.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

IIRC games such as Raging Blast would make the distinction between Kaio-Ken and Kaio-Ken x2 but now it's usually Kaio-Ken to Kaio-Ken x3.

They didn't, at least not any of the major ones. Budokai was the only one which bothered having different stages as playable, with those stages being x2, x5 and x10. Budokai 2 had only x20, whilst every other game just titles the Kaioken usage and attacks as Kaioken without specifying a form other than the Kaioken x3 attack and Kaioken x20 Kamehameha in the Xenoverse games.

Kaioken allowing you to increase your power by any factor between two integers makes more sense, since numbers are human inventions; chi doesn't 'know' about them. Plus it gives Vegeta's power up sequence some meaning.

That wouldn't really make much sense unless Kaioken x1 was so low an increase as to not even matter, considering that logic would allow KKx2 Goku to match Vegeta's full power if regular Kaioken was low a boost as 1.125x boost, not to mention that blatantly contradicting what official sources such as the Daizenshuu show how Kaioken works numerically.

 

[Future Warrior]

]They didn't, at least not any of the major ones. Budokai was the only one which bothered having different stages as playable, with those stages being x2, x5 and x10. Budokai 2 had only x20, whilst every other game just titles the Kaioken usage and attacks as Kaioken without specifying a form other than the Kaioken x3 attack and Kaioken x20 Kamehameha in the Xenoverse games.

https://youtu.be/q3jvKudzyJk?t=103

In Xenoverse Kaioken is not just for attacks but for increasing stats as well, starting from Kaioken and then Kaioken x3.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

That wouldn't really make much sense unless Kaioken x1 was so low an increase as to not even matter, considering that logic would allow KKx2 Goku to match Vegeta's full power if regular Kaioken was low a boost as 1.125x boost, not to mention that blatantly contradicting what official sources such as the Daizenshuu show how Kaioken works numerically.

There is no 'regular' kaioken or different verions of it. There is just one version of kaioken and the user can select how much to increase his power with it.

 

[GSM123]

It would contradict Goku's explanation of the Kaioken if such a level existed and Kaioken x2 wasn't 2x it. It's worth noting that the Daizenshuu entry doesn't ignore that Galu had to revert back to his base self before using x2, so this could be a case of the Daizenshuu being inconsistent with its wording, much akin to it flip-flopping between Gohan being an SSJ against Dabura and then saying he was an SS2 in Daizenshuu 3 and 7 respectively.

I don't think one can take Goku's statement literally either way, since "Many times" would require it to be above 2x as well.

Daizenshuu never implied Gohan was a SSJ1 against Dabra. It did dance around the Kaio-Ken thing though, as Daizenshuu 7 classifies Post 100G Goku at 90,000 despite him only needing "Kaio-Ken" rather than Kaio-Ken x2 to get to 180,000.

Nope. Manga tells us it’s 2x.

Manga also implied Kaio-Ken =/= Kaio-Ken x2 though.

 

[SSJ2]

THere was nothing to be implied when Goku told us Kaioken doubles your power.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

There is no 'regular' kaioken or different verions of it. There is just one version of kaioken and the user can select how much to increase his power with it.

And unless blatantly contradicting official sources and numbers, x2 would have to be the minimum for Kaioken.

I don't think one can take Goku's statement literally either way, since "Many times" would require it to be above 2x as well.

Indeed, yet it's still made apparent that the boost has to be quite great, of which the supposed level below x2 couldn't be numerically without KKx2 overshadowing Vegeta's full power.

Daizenshuu never implied Gohan was a SSJ1 against Dabra.

In the section talking about Dabura's flame breath iirc, it states he used it against "Super Saiyan Gohan."

It did dance around the Kaio-Ken thing though, as Daizenshuu 7 classifies Post 100G Goku at 90,000 despite him only needing "Kaio-Ken" rather than Kaio-Ken x2 to get to 180,000.

All the proof you need that this source is merely just using the two terms interchangeably despite meaning the same thing overall.

 

[GSM123]

Nevermind all that, KP posted some scans that definitely show it’s 2x. Guess the Daizenshuu 2 staff just got lost in the confusion from the Saiyan Arc and didn’t bother looking the later chapters.

 

[SSJ2]

What scans? What are you talking about? Anyway maybe this should be evidence that the Daizenshuu shouldn’t be taken as a factual source.

 

[GSM123]

Scans from the Daizenshuu itself. Another edition tho.

 

[SSJ2]

I don’t see any scans posted by KP. Literally no clue what you’re talking about.

 

[ahill1]

Narrator stated the Kaioken doubles Goku's power.

 

[Void]

He used an invisible Kaio-Ken x1.5 against Freeza to keep up. :rape

 

[SSJ2]

The narrator was lying. The Daizenshuu is approved by Toriyama, so the guidebook entry is > the narrator.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Nope, only withheld believes on that shit.