Kaio-Shin vs #17

SSJ2

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Kaioshin would be lucky to beat Future 17. He'd need to rely on things like paralysis to win. Regular 17 would smoke him.
 

SSJ3 Gothic

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I think I'd have to go with 17 here, maybe in both cases. I take the "one shot Freeza" line as an absolute minimum and don't put him any higher than I have too, maybe around the Mecha Freeza SSJ's. I don't think Kioshin deserves any bit more than that.
 

Fantastische Hure

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I think I'd have to go with 17 here, maybe in both cases. I take the "one shot Freeza" line as an absolute minimum and don't put him any higher than I have too, maybe around the Mecha Freeza SSJ's. I don't think Kioshin deserves any bit more than that.
What if he meant RoF Freeza? :shin:shin:shin
 

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