Kaioshin Strength

[Power Level Guy]

I think I'm going with Kaioshin being weaker than advertised. His so called strength statement is based on nothing and the Base Saiyans aren't terribly stronger than Piccolo as would be required for the Pui Pui > Kaioshin > Piccolo chain.

The Boys are around Cell Junior level and the adults just aren't worlds above that. Future Trunks at the CG = Kid Trunks Post RoSaT.

I'm going with something like this I believe...


Goku 1,000
Yakon 900
Vegeta 800
Teen Gohan 600
Vegeta (vs Pui Pui) 500
RoF Gohan 500
RoF Piccolo 450
Buu Piccolo 400
Piccolo CG 375
Vegeta CG 360
Future Trunks CG 350
Kid Trunks (Post Rosat) 350
Goten (Post Rosat) 320
Pui Pui 300
Android 17 250
Trunks Pre 240
Android 18 225
Goten Pre 220
Expected Saiyans 200
Kaioshin 150
Kibito 100
Freeza 35


This will have to do. Looks good as can be.

The weakest part of the chain is Kaioshin > Piccolo, everything else is rock solid.

We know Base Saiyans > Piccolo, RoF confirmed this without a shadow of a doubt.

Piccolo > Base Boys seems confirmed time and time again.

Base Saiyans > Pui Pui > Kaioshin is confirmed in Badibi's ship.

And the boys being relevant to the adults is confirmed.

And this keeps Base Future Trunks (Post CG) from being ridiculously stronger than the Future Androids.

The only thing unconfirmed is Kaioshin > Piccolo. So we can still make Kaioshin quite strong, I have him about as strong as Goku in the Androids Saga, but that's all I can give him.

 

[Hector]

Unless you can somehow picture Kaioshin lifting the Z-Sword (which Base Gohan was struggling to lift) effortlessly without that seeming strange to you plot-wise, Kaioshin is below Base Saiyans.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Unless you can somehow picture Kaioshin lifting the Z-Sword (which Base Gohan was struggling to lift) effortlessly without that seeming strange to you plot-wise, Kaioshin is below Base Saiyans.

Of course. But I'm talking about Kaioshin vs Piccolo. I am now putting Kaioshin well below Piccolo as well.

 

[Hector]

Of course. But I'm talking about Kaioshin vs Piccolo. I am now putting Kaioshin well below Piccolo as well.

Do we need to treat SSJ as a multiplier?

 

[Power Level Guy]

Do we need to treat SSJ as a multiplier?

Of course

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

@SSJ2 do you still have Piccolo > Kaioshin? I’m thinking about going back to that. It’s the sanest route.

 

[SSJ2]

I've never not had Piccolo > Kaioshin. How Kaioshin was portrayed on Babidi's ship seals it for me. His constant adoration of the Base Saiyans - acting as if they were on a completely different level than himself... Even if you go with Base Saiyans > Piccolo, Piccolo would never be treating the Base Saiyans that way.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

I don't think it'd have a narrative purpose for how Piccolo to admire how Kaioshin, Gohan & Vegeta are powerless against Buu if we are supposed to believe that one of the three is weaker than himself.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Even if you go with Base Saiyans > Piccolo, Piccolo would never be treating the Base Saiyans that way.

You don’t go with Base Saiyans > Piccolo?

 

[SSJ2]

You don’t go with Base Saiyans > Piccolo?

No I don't. I think there are various ways you can explain the Budokai situation.

 

[Power Level Guy]

No I don't. I think there are various ways you can explain the Budokai situation.

How do you explain RoF Base Gohan being stated to be stronger than Piccolo by Freeza?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Freeza doesn’t say that. Tagoma does and only in the anime.

 

[SSJ2]

How do you explain RoF Base Gohan being stated to be stronger than Piccolo by Freeza?

I'm not even sure what you're referencing to be honest.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Freeza doesn’t say that. Tagoma does and only in the anime.

When Sorbet is baffled by the Dragon Team's competence, it is Gohan who Freeza decides to highlight as the one capable of instantaneously defeating the soldiers, not Piccolo.

I'm not even sure what you're referencing to be honest.

A severely weakened Base Saiyan is portrayed to be superior to Piccolo. RoF Base Gohan > Piccolo tells us all we need to know about how weak Piccolo truly is.

 

[SIAD]

Gohan trained with the Z Sword in Arc Boo and became stronger.

Maybe Base Gohan (FNF) is compared to Base Gohan (Post Espada Z).

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Yeah RoF put the final nail in the coffin. Toriyama flat out says Base Gohan is the strongest in the script.

Despite being called “Freeza Army”, by now it’s been reduced to merely a hodge-podge of second-rate warriors. Strength-wise Earth’s army overwhelmingly has the upper hand, and the enemy force’s numbers steadily drop. However, there are still some strong enemies. The mercenaries are particularly troublesome. Gohan is strongest. And Piccolo’s strong too. Kuririn, Tenshinhan, Kame-sennin, and even Jaco all play a big role.

@SIAD I’m not sure. Gohan just got a bit stronger. Isn’t Piccolo meant to be 20x Base Saiyans?

 

[Power Level Guy]

Maybe Base Gohan (FNF) is compared to Base Gohan (Post Espada Z).

He's depicted as being terribly weak, not even sure if he could turn Super Saiyan. I'd say he's clearly depicted as weaker than Gohan from the Buu Saga.

Zeta Gohan would be peak Gohan. He doesn't look anywhere as capable as he was there.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Yeah RoF put the final nail in the coffin. Toriyama flat out says Base Gohan is the strongest in the script.

Oh this is a much stronger point to use. Thanks.

 

[Pakl]

Much weaker than Boo Saga SSjin Gohan, but capable of one shotting Freeza. I don't think je needs to be all that strong. Excluding the obviously controversial case with Piccolo, I would place him around 16 or Semi Perfect Cell at best.

 

[Lucifer]

Kaioshin was stated to be much more powerful than Piccolo and isn't really contradicted anywhere.