Kamiccolo: Do you consider him a separate entity?

[Future Warrior]

For a while, I've always saw Piccolo as always being essentially the same person he was from the Saiyan arc towards the Boo arc despite him merging with other Namekians. But when you pay closer attention to the character after his reunion with God, I feel that's not the case in the slightest. I think the problem lies in that not only does Piccolo still looks the same as he always did, but the characters still call him by that name. However, this seems to mostly be out of convenience as Piccolo served as the base for the merging, which is the reason for his appearance. And frankly, that makes sense, since Piccolo and God were once the same person, so there's no reason for there to be any change in his outward appearance when combining with his opposite.

The basis of my argument is that after the reunion, we get the iconic line of his saying he's neither Piccolo nor God, but the original Namekian who came to earth. Cell agrees with that sentiment when he finds out about the reunion also, and #16 straight up says that the person #17 was fighting wasn't Piccolo.

What I also liked was the fact that you can clearly see the change in personality after the reunion. He gains a far more defensive attitude for the earth and it's people, and is generally a lot less cold than he was as a separate being. He still, however, has the same warrior mentality that he always had along with his bond with Gohan. He's a different person that has the personality of both individuals from their separate experiences. We just call him Piccolo because that's just what he looks like. He's the original Namekian that has long forgotten his name.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

His personality definitely seems to have changed after the fusion, such as being far more vocal on caring for Gohan and his desire not to fight despite that seeming to go against his attitude beforehand. Then, of course, there's him forfeiting to Shin despite having no respect for divinity back when he was still fully Piccolo.

It can be argued that Nail somewhat changed him as well, considering the scene where he talks to Dende whilst Goku is fighting Freeza presents Piccolo acting a tad differently from normal.

 

[Future Warrior]

It can be argued that Nail somewhat changed him as well, considering the scene where he talks to Dende whilst Goku is fighting Freeza presents Piccolo acting a tad differently from normal.

That's also true. Nail was definitely bullshitting about it simply being a power boost.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I don't want to get philosophical here, but he is and isn't. His atittude definitely changes upon merging with either Nail or Kami, perhaps as an outcome of absorbing their knowledge, but he's still Piccolo nonetheless.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

I don't want to get philosophical here, but he is and isn't. His atittude definitely changes upon merging with either Nail or Kami, perhaps as an outcome of absorbing their knowledge, but he's still Piccolo nonetheless.

I'd agree to that somewhat, but only in certain aspects. He certainly is Piccolo in terms of self-identity, though there are certain aspects where the Kami within him shows up more prominently such as his respect for deities or how he reacts to certain actions (most notably, his comical reactions in the Boo Arc). He's still mostly Piccolo as a whole, but Kami does seem to have dominance in his decisions on certain actions.

 

[Future Warrior]

I don't want to get philosophical here, but he is and isn't. His atittude definitely changes upon merging with either Nail or Kami, perhaps as an outcome of absorbing their knowledge, but he's still Piccolo nonetheless.

So you consider the son of Katatz to be Piccolo?

If I had to find a comparable example it would be the fusion dance and Potara. Most people would agree that Gotenks and Vegetto/Gogeta are their own individuals.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

He still says to just to be referred to as Piccolo rather than having a name that's a mix of both, so he's clearly somewhat different from the more typical fusions. I'd say the Kamiccolo scene would show he's still mostly Piccolo, albeit changed in several ways.

 

[Future Warrior]

He still says to just to be referred to as Piccolo rather than having a name that's a mix of both, so he's clearly somewhat different from the more typical fusions. I'd say the Kamiccolo scene would show he's still mostly Piccolo, albeit changed in several ways.

Mostly Piccolo in what way?

The way you guys are describing it make it seem like it's just Piccolo with some personality changes, rather than a straight up combination in their spirits.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Well, "Piccolo" states himself he's still mostly Piccolo:

The anime subs translate this as him referring to Piccolo still being the base, though seems to carry the same meaning. As far as more specific ways in which he's still Piccolo, his attitude towards fighting and training remains the same as evidenced in the Boo Arc with him finding the 25th TB interesting enough to participate in. The way in which he talks to certain characters (particularly Vegeta) definitely show more of Piccolo's snarky jabs than Kami's straightforward yet formal manner.

I agree that Kamiccolo is indeed a combination of their spirits, though in terms of noticeable personality dominance Piccolo still seems to hold the most control, in something like a 60-40 split.

 

[Future Warrior]

I agree that Kamiccolo is indeed a combination of their spirits, though in terms of noticeable personality dominance Piccolo still seems to hold the most control, in something like a 60-40 split.

I think it was just miscommunication on my part because on that front I probably agree with this.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

So you consider the son of Katatz to be Piccolo?

If I had to find a comparable example it would be the fusion dance and Potara. Most people would agree that Gotenks and Vegetto/Gogeta are their own individuals.

No. Kami was the Son of Katatz, and he should be the basis of the fusion for the Nameless Namekian to truly return.

 

[Future Warrior]

So you consider the son of Katatz to be Piccolo?

If I had to find a comparable example it would be the fusion dance and Potara. Most people would agree that Gotenks and Vegetto/Gogeta are their own individuals.

No. Kami was the Son of Katatz, and he should be the basis of the fusion for the Nameless Namekian to truly return.

That's not how it works. Piccolo and Kami were two halves of the same coin. One was the evil side and the other was the good side from the original Namekian.

 

[Symbiote]

It definitely works that way because the evil side didn’t appear until Kami came to earth, before that he was just kami and didn’t know about or witness the hatred or cruelty humans showed him.

 

[Future Warrior]

It definitely works that way because the evil side didn’t appear until Kami came to earth, before that he was just kami and didn’t know about or witness the hatred or cruelty humans showed him.

Ok, let's break this down.

1. Kami says that he and Piccolo were originally ''one'' Namekian
2. Their life forces are bound together. If Piccolo dies, Kami dies too. Seems the former is a lot more intrinsic to the latter than simply being his leftover residue.
3. By the time the Artificial Humans arc came around, Piccolo had very little evil left in him. If we're going by the idea that Kami was identical to the son of Katatz simply due to his pure nature, than it's equally valid to say Piccolo was that Namekian also.
4. Kamiccolo calls himself the original Namekian

I don't know why there's so much confusion on this topic. Maybe the dub had a hand in this.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

That's not how it works. Piccolo and Kami were two halves of the same coin. One was the evil side and the other was the good side from the original Namekian.

It is. Piccolo was born from expelling the evil within Kami's heart, being just a personification of the inner demons he acquired in life and Kami is a purified version of Katatz's child.

 

[Future Warrior]

That's not how it works. Piccolo and Kami were two halves of the same coin. One was the evil side and the other was the good side from the original Namekian.

It is. Piccolo was born from expelling the evil within Kami's heart, being just a personification of the inner demons he acquired in life and Kami is a purified version of Katatz's child.

Your explanation is accurate, but not your interpretation of it. I literally broke down what the series tells us in my previous post.

If you think I'm speaking out of my ass, than you'll find the evidence by just simply reading the manga. And no, it doesn't start with the Saiyan arc.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

And no, it doesn't start with the Saiyan arc.

You mean they wrote a prequel to DBZ too? dawg

For real, the whole reason the split happened was because Katatz Jr wanted to become a God but wasn’t pure enough, so we know the good side that will become Kami was still the same guy as before the split, only with renewed innocence.

As for Piccolo, Kami says he was “Only a speck/worm” in him “but it lived”, almost like as if Piccolo wasn’t supposed to live somehow. Even years after Daimao’s death Ma Jr still calls himself a demon as late as the Android Arc and that he still planned on taking over the World, so we know his tendencies weren’t totally overcome.

 

[Future Warrior]

You mean they wrote a prequel to DBZ too? dawg

I was mostly half-joking on that comment as I think I've heard you mention that you wish you read more of the kid Goku stories.

For real, the whole reason the split happened was because Katatz Jr wanted to become a God but wasn’t pure enough, so we know the good side that will become Kami was still the same guy as before the split, only with renewed innocence.

And Piccolo was still the same guy as he always was but is now a being of pure malice (or at least Daimao was). You could maybe say the Nameless Namekian was closer to Kami in personality (It's suggested that he only had speck of evil in him), but it would be wrong to say that Kami was always that same person.

As for Piccolo, Kami says he was “Only a speck/worm” in him “but it lived”, almost like as if Piccolo wasn’t supposed to live somehow. Even years after Daimao’s death Ma Jr still calls himself a demon as late as the Android Arc and that he still planned on taking over the World, so we know his tendencies weren’t totally overcome.

Kami mentions in the beginning of the Saiyan arc that the fact that Raditz's soul was sent to the afterlife means that Piccolo was no longer considered a member of the Mazoku (Demon clan). It's been suggested that a person that's been killed by a demonic entity has their spirit wander in eternal limbo on the planet they died on, so it's clear there is already a massive change in Piccolo by the time we get to the ''Z'' era. Piccolo's outburst on Kuririn was the result of him dawning on the past few years on how much he's changed as a person, not being able to stop the inevitability of him having to reunite with his other half.

However, Piccolo is still the Devil to Kami being, well, God. It's just that the evil nature of Piccolo had dwindled the more time he spent with the rest of the Dragon Team.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

"we get the iconic line of his saying he's neither Piccolo nor God, but the original Namekian who came to earth."

It was a cool line but I don't think it was considered an iconic line dawg

 

[Captain Cadaver]

"we get the iconic line of his saying he's neither Piccolo nor God, but the original Namekian who came to earth."

It was a cool line but I don't think it was considered an iconic line dawg

It was iconic enough to be the name of one of Xenoverse's most OP Z/Super Souls, at least.

Also, it can be considered fairly iconic, considering the scene in general is pivotal in the Piccolo we knew disappearing and being replaced by essentially a new entity.