Kefla Base (Peak) vs Android #17 (ToP)?
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17 one shots. He'd give SSJ Kefla a good fight, but still lose.
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And in the anime?
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Sorry, I didn't see the "Anime" in the first post.
Still think 17 wins though. LSSJ Kefla = KKx20 SSJB Goku, so doing the math:
Kefla: 1
~ LSSJ: 100
SSJB Goku (Vs Kefla): 5
~ KKx20: 100
I think Goku only got 2x stronger fighting the girls, meaning 17 = 2.5 and so he wins very easily.
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It had been my mistake initially, so I edited it to Anime.
So you think that Kefla Base (Peak) was 20x stronger than Goku SSJG?
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10-20x. Kefla’s SSJ multiplier might be more than 50x since she might be a controlled LSSJ like Kale.
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@GreatSaiyaman123 And do you have Kefla Base closer to Goku SSJB than Goku SSJG?
Do you think Kefla SSJ was Suppressed when she was fighting at Goku SSJB level?
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Android 17 struggled to overcome Toppo with the help of Gohan. He was even overpowered by Toppo in their beam clash. In contrast, Base Kefla's power was enough to perturb Blue Vegeta which enabled Toppo to overcome him. Toppo and Vegeta were rivals and Toppo seemed concerned about Berserker Kale who is weaker than Base Kefla. Unless we factor in Android 17's feats towards the end of the tournament, Base Kefla should definitely win this.
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17's power is kind of all over the place.
- He can be briefly injured by Ribrianne's minion
- Goes on to fight Ribrianne to a stalemate
- Struggles some with Kahseral who couldn't beat Caulifia and a partially Berserk Kale with his whole team backing him up
- Fails to get out of those Trans guys Black hole with 18, who Goku in Base is able to move in
- Does the worst vs Anilaza, nearly getting knocked out before finding its weak point
- Can barely inconvenience Base Toppo even with Gohan's assistance yet isn't instantly oneshotted once he turns into his Hakaishin form, I believe his barrier even tanks some of his attacks
- Can take hits from a Powered Up Jiren and produces a self Destruct powerful enough to cancel out his attack
- Is reduced to back up vs a heavily worn out Jiren while Base Goku and Base Freeza lead the assault, 17 doesn't lose stamina so his power shouldn't have dropped
- He can be briefly injured by Ribrianne's minion
- Goes on to fight Ribrianne to a stalemate
- Struggles some with Kahseral who couldn't beat Caulifia and a partially Berserk Kale with his whole team backing him up
- Fails to get out of those Trans guys Black hole with 18, who Goku in Base is able to move in
- Does the worst vs Anilaza, nearly getting knocked out before finding its weak point
- Can barely inconvenience Base Toppo even with Gohan's assistance yet isn't instantly oneshotted once he turns into his Hakaishin form, I believe his barrier even tanks some of his attacks
- Can take hits from a Powered Up Jiren and produces a self Destruct powerful enough to cancel out his attack
- Is reduced to back up vs a heavily worn out Jiren while Base Goku and Base Freeza lead the assault, 17 doesn't lose stamina so his power shouldn't have dropped
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That's wrong. Goku says everyone reached their limits. Android 17 has infinite stamina but he's not invulnerable to pain. Physical wounds can certainly weaken him.
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It's also implied that Androids can take a significant amount of damage without losing power too. #19 didn't lose any power from repeatedly getting beat up by Goku unless you want to argue 17 being an organic type of Android makes his pain tolerance different but then he was no more injured than Goku or Freeza and it shouldn't brought his power down that much.
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That's because Android 19 is actually resistant to pain which means that normal battle wounds wouldn't stop him from functioning. Aside from that, Android 17 literally detonated himself twice with the first explosion being enough to mitigate Jiren's blast. Vegeta's self-destruct nearly killed him.
Just because someone has retained power from sustaining battle wounds doesn't mean that battle wounds do not weaken a fighter. We've seen countless times where the opposite is the case so the argument doesn't apply. You would have to make an inference based on the damage dealt and what we are told. Goku flat-out states that Frieza, 17, and himself were all pushed beyond their limits. 17 is lumped into that group with Goku and Frieza.
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@Goku9001
Do you think that Kefla Base could have finished off Goku SSJG in an instant? Do you have the SSJB multiplier of 50x the SSJG?
Do you think that Kefla SSJ was suppressed against Goku SSJB and once Goku used his SSJB Kaioken x20, Kefla used all his power as SSJ?
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Probably closer to SSJG.
Kefla said she was going all out, but she probably was suppressed and slowly releasing more power as she got used to it.
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No. Base Kefla powered up and SSJG Goku wasn't defeated immediately. But yes, I think Blue = 50x God.
She said she was going all out. She merely powered up in response to KKx20 Blue Goku's power.
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@Goku9001
Could you show some random numbers?
Vegeta SSJB = 1
Goku SSJG (Vs Kefla) = ?
Kefla Base = ?
Goku SSJB (Vs Kefla) = ?
Kefla SSJ (Initial) = ?
Kefla SSJ (Peak) = ?
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@Goku9001
And against Anilasa, Goku was very hurt, at the level of being at the level of Vegeta?
And what gap do you have between Goku Base (Genkidama) over Goku SSJB Kaioken x20 (Episode 109)?
Will it be about 25x?
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Yes. He seemed roughly on par with Vegeta, Gohan, Frieza, and 17 at the time.
As for the Genkidama, I don't know. It has to at least be greater than Trunks' Genki Sword which exceeded the power of Blue Vegetto and Merged Zamasu. We do have to take into account Goku having gotten stronger since his fight with Toppo. He rivals Vegeta who can match Toppo whereas he needed KKx10 Blue before. Then Blue Goku got stronger right up until his battle with Jiren. Jiren needs to use a much greater level of power than he used against Kale. Belmod describes it as Jiren showing his "absolute power" against Goku.
I don't know how large that difference would be. Could easily be >100x stronger depending on the multipliers.
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And Vegetto Base (Arc Zamasu) how much more powerful is it than Goku SSJB (Arc Zamasu / Peak)? Both from the anime.
Will Vegetto Base >> Goku SSJB (Kamehameha)?
I still think that the SSJ multiplier for fusions is nerfed, but even so, I have Spirit Bomb (Initial) 25x Goku SSJB Kaioken x20 (Episode 109). Goku was confident that with the Spirit Bomb he would defeat a version of Jiren that he humiliated just by looking at Goku SSJB Kaioken x20. The gap is tremendous.
