Kibitoshin vs Super Perfect Cell

[FeatsofPower]

In Super Yamoshi couldn't KO a bunch of Oozarus as a Super Saiyan or Super Saiyan God in time according to Shenlong's account of the legend of the SSJ/SSJG, I'm not sure being ganged up on is as easy to handle in Super as it is in Z. After all Merged Zamasu logically should be able to solo 2 SSJBs and a SSJ3 tier SSJ2 in under a minute going by Z logic but Gowasu worried they wouldn't "even last an hour" in Super and a bunch of sub-SSJ tier fighters were beating LSSJ Kale. Fatigued or not if Nappa could solo the Z senshi if not for Vegeta forcing him to wait for 3 hours, LSSJ Kale should be able to kill a bunch of weaker Pride Troopers with one mouth blast or a Ki explosion.

Team ups are different for sure in Super. But changes did occur in the Buu Saga like Super.

Vegeta vs Fat/Kid Buu shows power level gaps mean nothing like they used to. Vegeta is a mere 25% of Fat/Kid at best yet seems to hold his own decently.

He lasts longer against these two monsters than he does against Monster Zarbon.

Mighty Mask vs 18 clearly doesn't care about power levels at all. Ssj Mighty Mask should one shot and tank, yet it's implied the boys don't think he can.

As mentioned before as well, Gogeta will dominate Gotenks because the boys suck and Goku and Vegeta are cool..

Goku and Vegeta are superior to the boys fusion, let alone Gogeta. This doesn't have to go too deep. The boys are as strong as we need to make them but Goku craps on their full power, Piccolo is still stronger than their base and so on.

We have conflicting feats, you have to go with the one which remains consistent. The consistent feats shows the boys ain't much compared to the adults.

 

[Papasmurf]

Vegeta didn't "hold his own decently" in the manga at all, he just spammed a bunch of Ki blasts at Kid Boo that only blew him up since Kid Boo seems to have durability that's low even for a Boo with Good Boo being able to blow apart half his body with one handed blasts, etc. Other than the initial Ki blast spammage Vegeta just straight up got bodied in the manga. Fat Boo also seemed to start out small against Vegeta similar to Reacoom seeing as Boo let Vegeta get a bunch of free hits in despite holding his own against SSJ3 Goku a few hours later and even forcing Goku to deflect his Kamehameha as if it was too dangerous to take head-on.

What do u think of my hypothesis that the boys lost their RoSaT and maybe 25th Budokai gains from years of inactivity? It's worth noting that they haven't been in a single major fight since the BoG arc until the Cell Jr.s fought them.

 

[FeatsofPower]

Vegeta didn't "hold his own decently" in the manga at all, he just spammed a bunch of Ki blasts at Kid Boo that only blew him up since Kid Boo seems to have durability that's low even for a Boo with Good Boo being able to blow apart half his body with one handed blasts, etc. Other than the initial Ki blast spammage Vegeta just straight up got bodied in the manga. Fat Boo also seemed to start out small against Vegeta similar to Reacoom seeing as Boo let Vegeta get a bunch of free hits in despite holding his own against SSJ3 Goku a few hours later and even forcing Goku to deflect his Kamehameha as if it was too dangerous to take head-on.

What do u think of my hypothesis that the boys lost their RoSaT and maybe 25th Budokai gains from years of inactivity? It's worth noting that they haven't been in a single major fight since the BoG arc until the Cell Jr.s fought them.

Good points. The manga is as you say it is. Much more definitive than I thought. I don't know who are you, I just got here so I don't know your views. Seems like a logical thought. But you are trying to make a narrative work that was abandoned and discarded.

If Piccolo at the CG being somewhere around Vegeta and Trunks must be discarded, why do you think the boys being around Gohan wouldn't be?

It's clearly not upheld. The idea that Gogeta isn't completely blown away by Vegetto is now the theme.

Base Saiyans > Kaioshin > Piccolo > Base Boys Post ends everything. Nothing you have combats that chain.

The evidence and narrative maintained is that no, the boys aren't quite there, but they are respectable.

Don't forget Goku doesn't think much of their FP either. They are not a true threat

 

[Papasmurf]

I'm Kenshi lol, my name was changed as a meme

 

[FeatsofPower]

I'm Kenshi lol, my name was changed as a meme

Oh ok cool, surprised to see you even talking this much about DB, cool

 

[Papasmurf]

Oh ok cool, surprised to see you even talking this much about DB, cool

I'm just bored at work because I don't have the motivation to work on a project in a work environment I don't feel that comfortable in and can do it over the weekend. I normally don't hyperanalyze DB that much since I'm more focused on working and the gym nowadays

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Yeah do we actually have reason to believe that Kibitoshin is SSJ2 tier? The only thing that backs it up is Old Kaioshin saying that Kibitoshin would be "more fodder for Boo" or something like that. His initial reaction to the potara is immediately shut down by Old Kaioshin.

It's mostly an interpretation from the people that think Kaioshin is closer to SSJ1 tier than base tier that carried into the common sense. Kibitoshin could easily not even be FPSSJ1 level.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Kibitoshin could easily not even be FPSSJ1 level.

 

[FeatsofPower]

It's mostly an interpretation from the people that think Kaioshin is closer to SSJ1 tier than base tier that carried into the common sense. Kibitoshin could easily not even be FPSSJ1 level.

Agreed, there's no evidence he has any real power, his components are trash, which is why he is trash.

 

[SSJ2]

He was meant to show off the greatness of the potara. Even if you have Kaioshin and Kibito as weak as they could possibly be narratively, it's pretty hard to imagine them being any less than Super Saiyan tier when you see the boost that Vegetto got.

 

[FeatsofPower]

He was meant to show off the greatness of the potara. Even if you have Kaioshin and Kibito as weak as they could possibly be narratively, it's pretty hard to imagine them being any less than Super Saiyan tier when you see the boost that Vegetto got.

Sure, but they have nothing going on for them. They are really incredibly weak.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

He was meant to show off the greatness of the potara. Even if you have Kaioshin and Kibito as weak as they could possibly be narratively, it's pretty hard to imagine them being any less than Super Saiyan tier when you see the boost that Vegetto got.

I think that was to show that Potara can’t be undone. Or maybe AT got tired of constantly drawing two characters who had the same role in the narrative. It definitely wasn’t to portray fusion’s power when Kibitoshin literally does nothing and gets instantly put down. Old Kaioshin telling Goku he and Gohan wouldn’t even need SSJ is enough.

 

[Six Trails]

I usually place Kibitoshin in between SS2 and SS3 level. I don’t think he needs to be weaker than Vegeta for his uselessness against Pure Boo to make sense. Even if he’s stronger than Vegeta he’s much more incompetent when it comes to fighting and realistically a 1.5 to 2x gap in DB makes you pretty useless against an opponent. Considering how big of a boost Fusion was for Gotenks and Vegetto it’s hard to imagine it giving such a pitiful boost to Kaioshin.

 

[FeatsofPower]

I usually place Kibitoshin in between SS2 and SS3 level. I don’t think he needs to be weaker than Vegeta for his uselessness against Pure Boo to make sense. Even if he’s stronger than Vegeta he’s much more incompetent when it comes to fighting and realistically a 1.5 to 2x gap in DB makes you pretty useless against an opponent. Considering how big of a boost Fusion was for Gotenks and Vegetto it’s hard to imagine it giving such a pitiful boost to Kaioshin.

He does need to be weaker than Vegeta since Goku and Vegeta are considered the strongest options to combat Buu.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

They aren't called the strongest though.

 

[FeatsofPower]

They aren't called the strongest though.

Sure they are. They are the two strongest current options at the time

 

[Fantastische Hure]

No, those would be Gotenks and Gohan. Even Goku implies that.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Gotenks and Gohan were dead. They didn’t even exist anymore.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Goku suggested reviving them:

 

[FeatsofPower]

No, those would be Gotenks and Gohan. Even Goku implies that.

Gotenks and Gohan were dead. They didn’t even exist anymore.

Exactly