King Chappa vs Chaozu/Krillen/Yamcha
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Firstly, it's worth noting that everyone from the main cast is confident that they'll be the winners this time... Yamcha and Kuririn are even overconfident in the Airplane, not even remembering Goku or Jackie Chun and treating each other as bigger deals. Bulma or Oolong both try to remember them about those contenders, but they seem to pay no attention. They are in their little world and only thinking in themselves. I agree that it's somewhat strange how the power that once was treated like a God, Goku from Uranai Baba, not being so relevant to the big guys anymore (Yamcha, Kuririn and etc.) and how that power, as well as Son Gohan's seem to be already old news, but that's kind of a common theme in Dragon Ball. As similar examples, we can cite Trunks as a SSJ being introducced as a rather big deal, easily killing Freeza, the former super villain, and quickly being diregarded before the new threats (the androids)... or how Raditz's power, that seemed to be in a different level compared to everything we have seen before is also quickly disregarded once we get to know about the two Saiyajins way stronger than him. That's kind of a common theme in Dragon Ball. So, we get everyone being confident that their power is high enough that even Goku's former power will pose no challenge:
They seem somewhat interested and worried about Goku's progress, specially after seeing how Goku came swimming from the opposite side of the Earth, but they still seem pretty confident in their chances. It's fine to see that they still seem sweating at the prospect of Goku getting stronger, but what seem to worry them the most is the unknown power that Goku might have... the power he had at the Uranain Baba Tournament is something they can handle, otherwise they wouldn't even consider the prospect of winning the Tournament. That statement came right after seeing how Goku put his body through an extreme effort through swimming from a different country until there, which obviously implies Goku was no merely joking those past three years, although Goku's psyque as well as the way he acts make it sound like he hasn't progressed that much or hasn't even progressed, which goes back to what Kuririn stated before:
Goku looks soft in the outside, but is still a monster in the inside. It seems the thought of Goku getting stronger seems to scare them a bit, but mainly because they can't know how much stronger he got... it's still kind of a mystery.
Jackie Chun is also pretty confident about the champion title belonging to him once again, which shows he also surpassed Goku's old power, but like the others he still seems somewhat worried about Goku's progress:
So, at the first chain, we'd have:
Jackie Chun, Yamcha and Kuririn >> Son Goku [Uranai Baba Tournament]
Even so, they still seem somewhat worried about Goku's progress.
Yamcha fights first, defeats some random guy with one punch, then Kuririn defeats some giant-sized man in an also very convincing fashion, throwing him out of bounds. And then, it's Goku's turn, and it's against King-Chappa/Chappa-o. Everyone thinks Goku has found himself in a sticky match from the beginning, and that they'll finally get to see how strong Goku has gotten. Jackie Chun/Kame-Sen'nin at least thinks it:
Linked with Jackie Chun's comment above that they'd now finally get too see how much stronger Goku has gotten, I think it's fine to believe Chappa-o is above Goku from three years ago. Jackie Chun believed Goku progressed, but is still setted at uneasy with the thought of Goku fighting him. Yamcha also thinks the same. Kuririn doesn't know the guy:
Chappa-o > Goku {Uranai Baba saga]
In battle powers, we can give Chappa-o a noticeable advantage, but not a very big one, considering Yamcha still seems to think Goku can manage something even when he doesn't know whether Goku got stronger or not:
Son Goku [Uranai Baba saga] : 100
Chappa-o : 110
Those kind of comments seem to mirror Jackie Chun's comments regarding Goku's chances against Mummy, don't you think? The kind of reaction is basically the same... the old Goku might not have a chance, but what about the new progressed one?
Then Goku begins fighting this new challenge... starts handling him swiflty, letting everyone with a :shock reaction. Then everyone has seen Goku has progressed and significantly so. Yamcha and Jackie Chun are already impressed by how fast Goku is as soon as he throws the first punch. Kuririn and Yamcha doesn't believe how fast Goku is to block all those attacks from Chappa-o and get even more surprised that Goku has stopped himself into the air with a blast of expelled breath.
Everyone sees then that Goku was not joking during those three years and is there as a real contender. They get even more surprised at the prospect of Goku not putting nearly everything he had got into the fight. Then at that moment the heroes start shaking into their boots at Goku's mighty. But it's worthy noting that both Yamcha and Kuririn are still in the game... they didn't lose their confidence.
Upon seeing that Jackie Chun has also gotten considerably stronger and polished his skills over him fighting a random fighter, Yamcha thinks this will be an astonishing Tournament:
This shows he still hasn't given up his chances at the Tournamet... he is in the game yet, just thinking it will surely be a rather tough Tournament. Kame-Sen'nin also gives us an interesting comment:
Kame-Sennin: I have watched the prelims. Everynone of you may win this Tournament
According to him, any one of them might win the prize money. This seems more than a general comment to incentivate them, considering every one of them seem to agree and say they'll do their best. This would only make sense if the power that Goku displayed against Chappa was still significantly below Yamcha and Kuririn's, otherwise Goku's comment that "he didn't use nearly everything" would be enough to shatter their confidence. It's true that they seem very surprised at Goku's prowess against Chappa-o, but so was Kame-Sen'nin, who should be also way above that displayed power going by scaling.
So, we have so far:
Yamcha ~ Kuririn ~ Son Goku [unknown power] >> Son Goku [displayed power against Chappa-o] >> Chappa-o > Son Goku [Uranai Baba Saga]
Son Goku [Uranai Baba] : 100
Chappa-o : 110
Son Goku [vs Chappa-o] : 130
Yamcha : 150
Kuririn : 150
Son Goku - still unknown
^ Some rough estimations.
Then, we move on to our first battle in the Tournament, and Yamcha and Tenshinhan get to face each other. Both seem completely even until Tenshinhan begins using more of his powers and get the upper hand. Yamcha then uses his trick (the KMHMH), but not even that is enough to stop Tenshinhan's mighty, who swiflty bounces that back and knocks Yamcha into the ground easily. Goku still seems to think the power they both were displaying when initially fighting to be amazing, and call them both awesome. This would also lend credence to this fight being at a higher level than the power Goku used to deal with Chappa.
At the end of the fight, Tsuru-Sen'nin says Tenshinhan has still more to show than what he displayed in the fight, obviously indicating Tenshinhan wasn't at full power. Then, we get:
Tenshinhan [full power] >> Tenshinhan [using more power] >> Yamcha ~ Tenshinhan [initial] ~ Kuririn >> Son Goku [vs Chappa-o] >> Chappa-o > Son Goku [Uranai Baba]
Son Goku [Uranai Baba] : 100
Chappa-o : 110
Son Goku [vs Chappa-o] : 130
Yamcha/Kuririn : 150*
Tenshinhan [initially] : 150
Tenshinhan [more power, but still not full power] : 200
*We know that Yamcha and Kuririn are evenly matched due to a comment given later.
Then, we move on to Jackie vs Man-Wolf... not much to comment... Jackie Chun easily dominates the man who held a grudge at him for destrying the moon. The fight at least makes Tenshinhan kind of interested in him. Goku also comments how Jackie is good, but that's about it. Jackie ends up hypnotizing the man using Kuririn's head, turning him into a pretty handsome man again!
Then, we move on to Kuririn vs Chaozu. Kuririn thinks the pale one is rather enigmatic and that he shoud have payed attention to his fighting style. They both start fighting pretty evenly, although it's worth noting that Kuririn kind of got caught off guard by Chaozu flying at him all of a sudden. Kuririn moves so fast that Chaozu can't see him, hits him, but then Chaozu kind of regains his composure and they both go to fight evenly, until Chaozu makes use of his Bukujutsu, to which Kuririn is annoyed. Chaozu starts spamming Dodonpas, Tenshinhan learns that Goku knows about Tao Pai Pai and that he was "killed" by him. Things start getting more personal, to the point Chaozu is instructed to kill Kuririn. Kuririn uses the moment Chaozu fires the Dodonpa to hit him with a KMHMH, which visibly hurts Chaozu, who is already panting. Then we see that Chaozu can't take a hand to hand combat anymore--probably because he was damaged by the KMHMH -- and is forced to use his paralysis technique, causing a stomachache in Kuririn. Kuririn notices that Chaozu has to make use of his hands and makes use of a strategy to make Chaozu not use his hands and after a lot of wiggle, Chaozu is knocked out of the ring.
We kind of see that both were kind of evenly matched in the hand to hand combat, but Kuririn seemed to have a lead, and seemed to be too fast for Chaozu some times. It's fine to put Chaozu at 140, I guess. Maybe a bit higher (considering that'd make up for a 93% gap), but let's opt for a cleaner number.
Tenshinhan [full power] >> Tenshinhan [using more power] >> Yamcha ~ Tenshinhan [initial] ~ Kuririn >= Chaozu >> Son Goku [vs Chappa-o] >> Chappa-o > Son Goku [Uranai Baba]
Son Goku [Uranai Baba] : 100
Chappa-o : 110
Son Goku [vs Chappa-o] : 130
Chaozu : 140
Yamcha/Kuririn : 150*
Tenshinhan [initially] : 150
Tenshinhan [more power, but still not full power] : 200
Goku easily defeats Panpoot, that wasn't even a fight considering the quickness of it, but I think we can safely put Panpoot at 21st Budokai Goku's level consideirng their feat of breaking up the arena wall seem to kind of match each other. But, considering the scale starts with Uranai Baba Goku, we won't include Panpoot, who was seemingly a very gifted kickboxer, from the looks of it. Tenshinhan and Tsuru are impressed by Goku taking him down the way he did, altough Kuririn isn't impressed, nor is Kame-Sen'nin.
Then, we move onto Tenshinhan vs Jackie Chun. Kuririn thinks Jackie has got this, but Goku isn't so sure and says this Tenshinhan guy is rather strong. Kuririn is impressed at the thought of Jackie Chun matching up to Tenshinhan, which is kind of weird, but ok. I don't see a reason for Tenshinhan to start with a lower level against Jackie Chun than the one he used to defeat Yamcha, specially seeing that he also seemed to treat Jackie Chun as a bigger deal.
Both have a pretty evenly match from the beginning, but Tenshinhan seems to take advantage by seeing through Jackie Chun's technique with his third eye. Jackie Chun says he has to get serious, takes off his shirt, quickly catches Tenshinhan's hands and kicks him away. That probably shows he increased his effort, like he himself said:
Jackie Chun [getting serious] > Tenshinhan [initially] >= Jackie Chun [initially]
Then, it seems Tenshinhan increases his speed as well, given Jackie Chun's reaction when he charges at him:
Jackie Chun regains composure from Tenshinhan's assualt, and retaliates. Both are pretty impressed with each other's abilities. Then, to sum it up, we have Tenshinhan starting at the level he used to knock Yamcha out... Jackie Chun matches up to that level, but seems to get in a slight disadvantage... then Jackie Chun increases his level and seems to hold an advantage over Tenshinhan, who also shows more of his power and gets once again evenly matched with jacke Chun. Then:
Jackie Chun [more serious] ~ Tenshinhan [more serious] > Tenshinhan [knocking out Yamcha] >= Jackie Chun [initially]
Tenshinhan says this old geezer is better than Tsuru-Sen'nin, but it's worth noting he says it just once Jackie Chun increases his effort, meaning his initial level was still, in all likelihood, at most equal to Tsuru. With this, we can conclude that Tsuru's gap over Yamcha and Kuririn is rather considerable... even Jackie Chun's initial level, who seems to match up to the level Tenshinhan used to knock out Yamcha, still isn't above Tsuru, and he just gets such recognition when leveling up. Tenshinhan makes use of the Taiyo-ken, kicking Jackie Chun in the top of his head, who still recovers, although still feeling pain. Tenshinhan is obviously flabbergasted at such old man and wonders who is him. He then gets told he is Kame-Sen'nin, who tries to get Tenshinhan to the good side and bla bla bla. But so far, we have:
Jackie Chun [more serious] ~ Tenshinhan [more serious] > Tsuru-Sen'nin >= Jackie Chun [initial] ~ Tenshinhan [initial] >> Yamcha ~ Kuririn >= Chaozu >> Son Goku [vs Chappa-o] >> Chappa-o > Son Goku [Uranai Baba Saga]
Son Goku [Uranai Baba] : 100
Chappa-o : 110
Son Goku [vs Chappa] : 130
Chaozu : 140
Yamcha/Kuririn : 150
Tenshinhan [initially] : 200
Jackie Chun [initially] : 190
Tsuru Sen'nin : 210
Jackie Chun [more serious] : 240
Tenshinhan [more serious] : 240
Then, we get told by Tenshinhan that Jackie Chun wasn't even using his full power, and that the reason to which he gave up wasn't because he was afraid of losing. He knew Jackie Chun had more to offer. It's somewhat vague whether it's meant to be Jackie Chun's techniques or his full strength, but since Tenshinhan used the term full power, I am going ahead and assume he meant his strength:
Then, Tenshinhan is still a little confused about Jackie Chun, go ask him some things, and it then begins Goku vs Kuririn. Kuririn says an interesting thing at the beginning of the match:
Whilst it's obvious that Goku still fought Kuririn at less than full power, Kuririn didn't seem to realize it until Goku pointed out, nor did he called Goku out because of it, which would have been kind of obvious if Goku was still fighting at the same level he used against Chappa-o, a level Goku himself made clear that was still far from his full power. They were evenly matched, but I have the feeling Goku was a little ahead considering Kuririn still made use of some strategies to get the upper hand, exploiting the sun light and things like this, similar to Cabba in his fight against Vegeta in Super.
Kame-Sen'nin [more serious] ~ Tenshinhan [more serious] > Tsuru-Se'nin > Kame-Sen'nin ~ Tenshinhan [knocking down Yamcha] >> Son Goku [vs Kuririn] >= Kuririn ~ Yamcha >= Chaouzu >> Son Goku [vs Chappa-o] >> Chappa-o > Son Goku [Uranai Baba Saga]
Son Goku [Baba] : 100
Chappa-o : 110
Son Goku [vs Chappa-o] : 130
Chaozu : 140
Yamcha : 150
Kuririn : 150
Son Goku [vs Kuririn. initially] : 160
Jackie Chun [initially, vs Ten] : 190
Tenshinhan [knocking down Yamcha] : 200
Tsuru-Sen'nin : 210
Jackie Chun [more serious] : 240
Tenshinhan [more serious] : 240
Then, Goku made clear that he stil wasn't fighting seriusly, to which Kuririn was like "Darn, what did I tell you?". Goku then used more effort and easily knocked Kuririn down, but he still didn't seem as dominant as Tenshinhan was when knocking Yamcha down, considering Tenshinhan basically one-shotted Yamcha after easily bouncing his KMHMH back. So, if Tenshinhan [finishing Yamcha] is a 200, let's say Goku [more effort, vs Kuririn] is a 180, still plenty to have a significant advantage against Kuririn.
Kame-Sen'nin [more serious] ~ Tenshinhan [more serious] > Tsuru-Se'nin > Kame-Sen'nin ~ Tenshinhan [knocking down Yamcha] > Son Goku [more serious] > Son Goku [initially, vs Kuririn] >= Kuririn ~ Yamcha >= Chaouzu >> Son Goku [vs Chappa-o] >> Chappa-o > Son Goku [Uranai Baba Saga]
Son Goku [Baba] : 100
Chappa-o : 110
Son Goku [vs Chappa-o] : 130
Chaozu : 140
Yamcha : 150
Kuririn : 150
Son Goku [vs Kuririn. initially] : 160
Son Goku [vs Kuririn, more serious] : 180
Jackie Chun [initially, vs Ten] : 190
Tenshinhan [knocking down Yamcha] : 200
Tsuru-Sen'nin : 210
Jackie Chun [more serious] : 240
Tenshinhan [more serious] : 240
They seem somewhat interested and worried about Goku's progress, specially after seeing how Goku came swimming from the opposite side of the Earth, but they still seem pretty confident in their chances. It's fine to see that they still seem sweating at the prospect of Goku getting stronger, but what seem to worry them the most is the unknown power that Goku might have... the power he had at the Uranain Baba Tournament is something they can handle, otherwise they wouldn't even consider the prospect of winning the Tournament. That statement came right after seeing how Goku put his body through an extreme effort through swimming from a different country until there, which obviously implies Goku was no merely joking those past three years, although Goku's psyque as well as the way he acts make it sound like he hasn't progressed that much or hasn't even progressed, which goes back to what Kuririn stated before:
Goku looks soft in the outside, but is still a monster in the inside. It seems the thought of Goku getting stronger seems to scare them a bit, but mainly because they can't know how much stronger he got... it's still kind of a mystery.
Jackie Chun is also pretty confident about the champion title belonging to him once again, which shows he also surpassed Goku's old power, but like the others he still seems somewhat worried about Goku's progress:
So, at the first chain, we'd have:
Jackie Chun, Yamcha and Kuririn >> Son Goku [Uranai Baba Tournament]
Even so, they still seem somewhat worried about Goku's progress.
Yamcha fights first, defeats some random guy with one punch, then Kuririn defeats some giant-sized man in an also very convincing fashion, throwing him out of bounds. And then, it's Goku's turn, and it's against King-Chappa/Chappa-o. Everyone thinks Goku has found himself in a sticky match from the beginning, and that they'll finally get to see how strong Goku has gotten. Jackie Chun/Kame-Sen'nin at least thinks it:
Linked with Jackie Chun's comment above that they'd now finally get too see how much stronger Goku has gotten, I think it's fine to believe Chappa-o is above Goku from three years ago. Jackie Chun believed Goku progressed, but is still setted at uneasy with the thought of Goku fighting him. Yamcha also thinks the same. Kuririn doesn't know the guy:
Chappa-o > Goku {Uranai Baba saga]
In battle powers, we can give Chappa-o a noticeable advantage, but not a very big one, considering Yamcha still seems to think Goku can manage something even when he doesn't know whether Goku got stronger or not:
Son Goku [Uranai Baba saga] : 100
Chappa-o : 110
Those kind of comments seem to mirror Jackie Chun's comments regarding Goku's chances against Mummy, don't you think? The kind of reaction is basically the same... the old Goku might not have a chance, but what about the new progressed one?
Then Goku begins fighting this new challenge... starts handling him swiflty, letting everyone with a :shock reaction. Then everyone has seen Goku has progressed and significantly so. Yamcha and Jackie Chun are already impressed by how fast Goku is as soon as he throws the first punch. Kuririn and Yamcha doesn't believe how fast Goku is to block all those attacks from Chappa-o and get even more surprised that Goku has stopped himself into the air with a blast of expelled breath.
Everyone sees then that Goku was not joking during those three years and is there as a real contender. They get even more surprised at the prospect of Goku not putting nearly everything he had got into the fight. Then at that moment the heroes start shaking into their boots at Goku's mighty. But it's worthy noting that both Yamcha and Kuririn are still in the game... they didn't lose their confidence.
Upon seeing that Jackie Chun has also gotten considerably stronger and polished his skills over him fighting a random fighter, Yamcha thinks this will be an astonishing Tournament:
This shows he still hasn't given up his chances at the Tournamet... he is in the game yet, just thinking it will surely be a rather tough Tournament. Kame-Sen'nin also gives us an interesting comment:
Kame-Sennin: I have watched the prelims. Everynone of you may win this Tournament
According to him, any one of them might win the prize money. This seems more than a general comment to incentivate them, considering every one of them seem to agree and say they'll do their best. This would only make sense if the power that Goku displayed against Chappa was still significantly below Yamcha and Kuririn's, otherwise Goku's comment that "he didn't use nearly everything" would be enough to shatter their confidence. It's true that they seem very surprised at Goku's prowess against Chappa-o, but so was Kame-Sen'nin, who should be also way above that displayed power going by scaling.
So, we have so far:
Yamcha ~ Kuririn ~ Son Goku [unknown power] >> Son Goku [displayed power against Chappa-o] >> Chappa-o > Son Goku [Uranai Baba Saga]
Son Goku [Uranai Baba] : 100
Chappa-o : 110
Son Goku [vs Chappa-o] : 130
Yamcha : 150
Kuririn : 150
Son Goku - still unknown
^ Some rough estimations.
Then, we move on to our first battle in the Tournament, and Yamcha and Tenshinhan get to face each other. Both seem completely even until Tenshinhan begins using more of his powers and get the upper hand. Yamcha then uses his trick (the KMHMH), but not even that is enough to stop Tenshinhan's mighty, who swiflty bounces that back and knocks Yamcha into the ground easily. Goku still seems to think the power they both were displaying when initially fighting to be amazing, and call them both awesome. This would also lend credence to this fight being at a higher level than the power Goku used to deal with Chappa.
At the end of the fight, Tsuru-Sen'nin says Tenshinhan has still more to show than what he displayed in the fight, obviously indicating Tenshinhan wasn't at full power. Then, we get:
Tenshinhan [full power] >> Tenshinhan [using more power] >> Yamcha ~ Tenshinhan [initial] ~ Kuririn >> Son Goku [vs Chappa-o] >> Chappa-o > Son Goku [Uranai Baba]
Son Goku [Uranai Baba] : 100
Chappa-o : 110
Son Goku [vs Chappa-o] : 130
Yamcha/Kuririn : 150*
Tenshinhan [initially] : 150
Tenshinhan [more power, but still not full power] : 200
*We know that Yamcha and Kuririn are evenly matched due to a comment given later.
Then, we move on to Jackie vs Man-Wolf... not much to comment... Jackie Chun easily dominates the man who held a grudge at him for destrying the moon. The fight at least makes Tenshinhan kind of interested in him. Goku also comments how Jackie is good, but that's about it. Jackie ends up hypnotizing the man using Kuririn's head, turning him into a pretty handsome man again!
Then, we move on to Kuririn vs Chaozu. Kuririn thinks the pale one is rather enigmatic and that he shoud have payed attention to his fighting style. They both start fighting pretty evenly, although it's worth noting that Kuririn kind of got caught off guard by Chaozu flying at him all of a sudden. Kuririn moves so fast that Chaozu can't see him, hits him, but then Chaozu kind of regains his composure and they both go to fight evenly, until Chaozu makes use of his Bukujutsu, to which Kuririn is annoyed. Chaozu starts spamming Dodonpas, Tenshinhan learns that Goku knows about Tao Pai Pai and that he was "killed" by him. Things start getting more personal, to the point Chaozu is instructed to kill Kuririn. Kuririn uses the moment Chaozu fires the Dodonpa to hit him with a KMHMH, which visibly hurts Chaozu, who is already panting. Then we see that Chaozu can't take a hand to hand combat anymore--probably because he was damaged by the KMHMH -- and is forced to use his paralysis technique, causing a stomachache in Kuririn. Kuririn notices that Chaozu has to make use of his hands and makes use of a strategy to make Chaozu not use his hands and after a lot of wiggle, Chaozu is knocked out of the ring.
We kind of see that both were kind of evenly matched in the hand to hand combat, but Kuririn seemed to have a lead, and seemed to be too fast for Chaozu some times. It's fine to put Chaozu at 140, I guess. Maybe a bit higher (considering that'd make up for a 93% gap), but let's opt for a cleaner number.
Tenshinhan [full power] >> Tenshinhan [using more power] >> Yamcha ~ Tenshinhan [initial] ~ Kuririn >= Chaozu >> Son Goku [vs Chappa-o] >> Chappa-o > Son Goku [Uranai Baba]
Son Goku [Uranai Baba] : 100
Chappa-o : 110
Son Goku [vs Chappa-o] : 130
Chaozu : 140
Yamcha/Kuririn : 150*
Tenshinhan [initially] : 150
Tenshinhan [more power, but still not full power] : 200
Goku easily defeats Panpoot, that wasn't even a fight considering the quickness of it, but I think we can safely put Panpoot at 21st Budokai Goku's level consideirng their feat of breaking up the arena wall seem to kind of match each other. But, considering the scale starts with Uranai Baba Goku, we won't include Panpoot, who was seemingly a very gifted kickboxer, from the looks of it. Tenshinhan and Tsuru are impressed by Goku taking him down the way he did, altough Kuririn isn't impressed, nor is Kame-Sen'nin.
Then, we move onto Tenshinhan vs Jackie Chun. Kuririn thinks Jackie has got this, but Goku isn't so sure and says this Tenshinhan guy is rather strong. Kuririn is impressed at the thought of Jackie Chun matching up to Tenshinhan, which is kind of weird, but ok. I don't see a reason for Tenshinhan to start with a lower level against Jackie Chun than the one he used to defeat Yamcha, specially seeing that he also seemed to treat Jackie Chun as a bigger deal.
Both have a pretty evenly match from the beginning, but Tenshinhan seems to take advantage by seeing through Jackie Chun's technique with his third eye. Jackie Chun says he has to get serious, takes off his shirt, quickly catches Tenshinhan's hands and kicks him away. That probably shows he increased his effort, like he himself said:
Jackie Chun [getting serious] > Tenshinhan [initially] >= Jackie Chun [initially]
Then, it seems Tenshinhan increases his speed as well, given Jackie Chun's reaction when he charges at him:
Jackie Chun regains composure from Tenshinhan's assualt, and retaliates. Both are pretty impressed with each other's abilities. Then, to sum it up, we have Tenshinhan starting at the level he used to knock Yamcha out... Jackie Chun matches up to that level, but seems to get in a slight disadvantage... then Jackie Chun increases his level and seems to hold an advantage over Tenshinhan, who also shows more of his power and gets once again evenly matched with jacke Chun. Then:
Jackie Chun [more serious] ~ Tenshinhan [more serious] > Tenshinhan [knocking out Yamcha] >= Jackie Chun [initially]
Tenshinhan says this old geezer is better than Tsuru-Sen'nin, but it's worth noting he says it just once Jackie Chun increases his effort, meaning his initial level was still, in all likelihood, at most equal to Tsuru. With this, we can conclude that Tsuru's gap over Yamcha and Kuririn is rather considerable... even Jackie Chun's initial level, who seems to match up to the level Tenshinhan used to knock out Yamcha, still isn't above Tsuru, and he just gets such recognition when leveling up. Tenshinhan makes use of the Taiyo-ken, kicking Jackie Chun in the top of his head, who still recovers, although still feeling pain. Tenshinhan is obviously flabbergasted at such old man and wonders who is him. He then gets told he is Kame-Sen'nin, who tries to get Tenshinhan to the good side and bla bla bla. But so far, we have:
Jackie Chun [more serious] ~ Tenshinhan [more serious] > Tsuru-Sen'nin >= Jackie Chun [initial] ~ Tenshinhan [initial] >> Yamcha ~ Kuririn >= Chaozu >> Son Goku [vs Chappa-o] >> Chappa-o > Son Goku [Uranai Baba Saga]
Son Goku [Uranai Baba] : 100
Chappa-o : 110
Son Goku [vs Chappa] : 130
Chaozu : 140
Yamcha/Kuririn : 150
Tenshinhan [initially] : 200
Jackie Chun [initially] : 190
Tsuru Sen'nin : 210
Jackie Chun [more serious] : 240
Tenshinhan [more serious] : 240
Then, we get told by Tenshinhan that Jackie Chun wasn't even using his full power, and that the reason to which he gave up wasn't because he was afraid of losing. He knew Jackie Chun had more to offer. It's somewhat vague whether it's meant to be Jackie Chun's techniques or his full strength, but since Tenshinhan used the term full power, I am going ahead and assume he meant his strength:
Then, Tenshinhan is still a little confused about Jackie Chun, go ask him some things, and it then begins Goku vs Kuririn. Kuririn says an interesting thing at the beginning of the match:
Whilst it's obvious that Goku still fought Kuririn at less than full power, Kuririn didn't seem to realize it until Goku pointed out, nor did he called Goku out because of it, which would have been kind of obvious if Goku was still fighting at the same level he used against Chappa-o, a level Goku himself made clear that was still far from his full power. They were evenly matched, but I have the feeling Goku was a little ahead considering Kuririn still made use of some strategies to get the upper hand, exploiting the sun light and things like this, similar to Cabba in his fight against Vegeta in Super.
Kame-Sen'nin [more serious] ~ Tenshinhan [more serious] > Tsuru-Se'nin > Kame-Sen'nin ~ Tenshinhan [knocking down Yamcha] >> Son Goku [vs Kuririn] >= Kuririn ~ Yamcha >= Chaouzu >> Son Goku [vs Chappa-o] >> Chappa-o > Son Goku [Uranai Baba Saga]
Son Goku [Baba] : 100
Chappa-o : 110
Son Goku [vs Chappa-o] : 130
Chaozu : 140
Yamcha : 150
Kuririn : 150
Son Goku [vs Kuririn. initially] : 160
Jackie Chun [initially, vs Ten] : 190
Tenshinhan [knocking down Yamcha] : 200
Tsuru-Sen'nin : 210
Jackie Chun [more serious] : 240
Tenshinhan [more serious] : 240
Then, Goku made clear that he stil wasn't fighting seriusly, to which Kuririn was like "Darn, what did I tell you?". Goku then used more effort and easily knocked Kuririn down, but he still didn't seem as dominant as Tenshinhan was when knocking Yamcha down, considering Tenshinhan basically one-shotted Yamcha after easily bouncing his KMHMH back. So, if Tenshinhan [finishing Yamcha] is a 200, let's say Goku [more effort, vs Kuririn] is a 180, still plenty to have a significant advantage against Kuririn.
Kame-Sen'nin [more serious] ~ Tenshinhan [more serious] > Tsuru-Se'nin > Kame-Sen'nin ~ Tenshinhan [knocking down Yamcha] > Son Goku [more serious] > Son Goku [initially, vs Kuririn] >= Kuririn ~ Yamcha >= Chaouzu >> Son Goku [vs Chappa-o] >> Chappa-o > Son Goku [Uranai Baba Saga]
Son Goku [Baba] : 100
Chappa-o : 110
Son Goku [vs Chappa-o] : 130
Chaozu : 140
Yamcha : 150
Kuririn : 150
Son Goku [vs Kuririn. initially] : 160
Son Goku [vs Kuririn, more serious] : 180
Jackie Chun [initially, vs Ten] : 190
Tenshinhan [knocking down Yamcha] : 200
Tsuru-Sen'nin : 210
Jackie Chun [more serious] : 240
Tenshinhan [more serious] : 240
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I used to think these four were barely any different from each other based on Yamcha's reaction to Goku beating him, but Ahill and CC showed some good points that imply the trio is considerably above Chappa:
1) Yamcha and Kuririn quickly recover their confidence
2) Tenshinhan saw Chappa'a defeat but believed Yamcha was the strongest of the three Kame students.
3) Kuririn asked Goku to go full power. Of course Goku wasn't going full power, but Kuririn never questioned Goku until the later revealed he was holding back, what implies Goku used more power against Kuririn than against Chappa.
Yamcha probably overracted as he didn't expect Goku to do such gains training alone. I mean, even Roshi was scared when Goku two shoted Chappa with no effort.
Nowadays i think the gap between those for is somewhat similiar to the Vegeta/Goku/Trunks/Piccolo gap on Androids Arc, so anyone of the trio would smoke Chappa IMO.
1) Yamcha and Kuririn quickly recover their confidence
2) Tenshinhan saw Chappa'a defeat but believed Yamcha was the strongest of the three Kame students.
3) Kuririn asked Goku to go full power. Of course Goku wasn't going full power, but Kuririn never questioned Goku until the later revealed he was holding back, what implies Goku used more power against Kuririn than against Chappa.
Yamcha probably overracted as he didn't expect Goku to do such gains training alone. I mean, even Roshi was scared when Goku two shoted Chappa with no effort.
Nowadays i think the gap between those for is somewhat similiar to the Vegeta/Goku/Trunks/Piccolo gap on Androids Arc, so anyone of the trio would smoke Chappa IMO.
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Yamcha flat out states that he doesn't think anybody could beat Chappa so easily...
Goku (vs Chappa, Initial vs Krillen) >= Krillen >= Yamcha/Chaozu > Chappa
I think Chappa puts up a compelling fight against the other 3. Goku has just enough of an advantage to make it easy while the others would have to labor with Chappa a bit.
Their confidence is BS and based on current status. Yamcha respects the hell out of Chappa, but thinks he can easily beat Tien. They all shit their pants at Chappa's defeat, they are just putting on a brave face for the remainder of the tournament.
Goku (vs Chappa, Initial vs Krillen) >= Krillen >= Yamcha/Chaozu > Chappa
I think Chappa puts up a compelling fight against the other 3. Goku has just enough of an advantage to make it easy while the others would have to labor with Chappa a bit.
Their confidence is BS and based on current status. Yamcha respects the hell out of Chappa, but thinks he can easily beat Tien. They all shit their pants at Chappa's defeat, they are just putting on a brave face for the remainder of the tournament.
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Why would Kuririm tell Goku not to hold back if the power Goku used to easily defeat Chappa was already above his?
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Pride of a warrior. Goku tells him he won't hold back, but he does. Krillen is delusional, he's lying to himself that he has a chance right before he goes in to fight Goku. Goku humors him, but later shows him he is indeed holding back the lion's share of his power.
So, King Chappa is still relevant to Krillen, Goku is holding back to his King Chappa level and then turns it up on Krillen later. Krillen is too busy with the match to really compare Goku's power, his heart is beating through his chest.
So, King Chappa is still relevant to Krillen, Goku is holding back to his King Chappa level and then turns it up on Krillen later. Krillen is too busy with the match to really compare Goku's power, his heart is beating through his chest.
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I don't agree. I think Goku (vs Kuririn) had been considerably stronger than the one who fought Chappa. Kuririn didn't seem to realize Goku was holding back until this latter stated he was, to which Kuririn was like "darn, what did I say you?". If Goku had been using the same level he used against Chappa, a level which Goku admitted was far from his full power, then the fact that Goku was still holding back would be obvious to Kuririn. Not the case.
The power Goku had used was just the tip of the iceberg.
Granted that Kuririn didn't seem too surprised with the prospect of Goku holding back, but had Goku been = the one who was just the tip of the iceberg, that would have been pretty obvious.
Not only does Roshi state that everyone can win (and no one opposing his statement, rather Yamcha merely saying it'd be an amazing tournament), he was also rather surprised with the power Goku used to beat up Chappa and stated things might be bad to him, despite via scaling him being considerably above that Goku:
He was as surprised as everyone else, with the exception that he didn't make the statement about not thinking anyone could beat up Chappa that easy. As you can also see from the scan above, Goku says he wish they'd hurry up so Goku could show his strength to "real strong guys" like them... that is, he doesn't consider Chappa a really strong guy, and wish they cut the fat so he could finally show how amazing he is against Yamcha and Kuririn... which is supported by him being impressed with the Yamcha vs Tenshinhan scuffle and calling both amazing, never showing the same respect towards Chappa:
So it's clear in my mind that both Kuririn and Yamcha would defeat Chappa easily just like Goku did. It's true that Yamcha stated he didn't imagine Chappa could be disposed of this easy, but I think his reputation is definitely affecting his judgement a little, as he only knew Chappa from the legends. Granted that Chappa is indeed strong and that they didn't get disappointed with him by watching his movements, but the sudden change from a legend to a fodder might still be a little hard to grasp.
The power Goku had used was just the tip of the iceberg.
Granted that Kuririn didn't seem too surprised with the prospect of Goku holding back, but had Goku been = the one who was just the tip of the iceberg, that would have been pretty obvious.
Not only does Roshi state that everyone can win (and no one opposing his statement, rather Yamcha merely saying it'd be an amazing tournament), he was also rather surprised with the power Goku used to beat up Chappa and stated things might be bad to him, despite via scaling him being considerably above that Goku:
He was as surprised as everyone else, with the exception that he didn't make the statement about not thinking anyone could beat up Chappa that easy. As you can also see from the scan above, Goku says he wish they'd hurry up so Goku could show his strength to "real strong guys" like them... that is, he doesn't consider Chappa a really strong guy, and wish they cut the fat so he could finally show how amazing he is against Yamcha and Kuririn... which is supported by him being impressed with the Yamcha vs Tenshinhan scuffle and calling both amazing, never showing the same respect towards Chappa:
So it's clear in my mind that both Kuririn and Yamcha would defeat Chappa easily just like Goku did. It's true that Yamcha stated he didn't imagine Chappa could be disposed of this easy, but I think his reputation is definitely affecting his judgement a little, as he only knew Chappa from the legends. Granted that Chappa is indeed strong and that they didn't get disappointed with him by watching his movements, but the sudden change from a legend to a fodder might still be a little hard to grasp.
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@P
Roshi also said what Goku did was unbeliveable. They were clearly in shock at how strong Goku has become with a inferior type of training.
The issue isn't necessarily the way Yamcha or Kuririn act, but their feats. Kuririn is showm holding his own against a even stronger Goku, and Tenshinhan says the tournament is gonna be a piece of cake after he beats Yamcha:
Chapter: 118, P14.1
Context: Tenshinhan won the match with Yamcha.
Chaozu: “You won!”
Tenshinhan: “Of course. But you know, these Turtle School fellows are much better than I expected. Don’t be complacent. Of course, this Yamcha was probably the best Kame-sen’nin has to offer…so it’s already plain that I’ll be the champion…and you’ll be runner up!”[/quote]
Roshi also said what Goku did was unbeliveable. They were clearly in shock at how strong Goku has become with a inferior type of training.
The issue isn't necessarily the way Yamcha or Kuririn act, but their feats. Kuririn is showm holding his own against a even stronger Goku, and Tenshinhan says the tournament is gonna be a piece of cake after he beats Yamcha:
Chapter: 118, P14.1
Context: Tenshinhan won the match with Yamcha.
Chaozu: “You won!”
Tenshinhan: “Of course. But you know, these Turtle School fellows are much better than I expected. Don’t be complacent. Of course, this Yamcha was probably the best Kame-sen’nin has to offer…so it’s already plain that I’ll be the champion…and you’ll be runner up!”[/quote]
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It was obvious to Roshi. When Goku powers up, now Roshi says that Goku is beginning to show his true power.
Roshi's statement of "Everyone can win" is directly contradicted by the scene Post Chappa's defeat. Krillen/Yamcha both know they have no chance and Jackie Chun is worried about his chances as well. That's the truth of the matter, whether they are lying to themselves to get them to fight, it doesn't matter, the truth is shown there.
Same as how Vegeta's reactions to Final Form Freeza's initial power speaks volumes about his standing versus him, more so than all of this Super Saiyan talk and how he can defeat Freeza.
Tien vs Yamcha was too guys fighting at a level significantly superior to Chappa's level, so of course that would be impressive.
Roshi's statement of "Everyone can win" is directly contradicted by the scene Post Chappa's defeat. Krillen/Yamcha both know they have no chance and Jackie Chun is worried about his chances as well. That's the truth of the matter, whether they are lying to themselves to get them to fight, it doesn't matter, the truth is shown there.
Same as how Vegeta's reactions to Final Form Freeza's initial power speaks volumes about his standing versus him, more so than all of this Super Saiyan talk and how he can defeat Freeza.
Tien vs Yamcha was too guys fighting at a level significantly superior to Chappa's level, so of course that would be impressive.
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No it isn't. They are very surprised by Goku's power there and they had then seen how much stronger Goku had become. They were even more amazed by the fact that Goku wasn't using anywhere near close to his strength, but no one there said they had no chance anymore. Yamcha, upon watching Jackie fighting a random guy, states this is shaping up to be an incredible tournament. He still hadn't given up his chances of winning, he just knows he is going to have to work really hard if he wants to get on top. Roshi states everyone can win, that's not a simple incentivation. It's a recognisement that everyone there has a shot at coming out on top.p123 said:
It's possible that Kuririn and Yamcha thought they would be a bit outclassed were Goku to use his full power, but they ought to still have thought they are close enough to squeaky out a win, like Kuririn who barely pulled off an edge through the use of strategy... in which case they should be already above the power Goku used to beat up Chappa, which was clarified by Goku to be just the tip of the iceberg.
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Krillen and Yamcha's face said they had no chance. When Goku says that he can't wait to face all of you strong guys, they wilted. That after proclaiming how tough Chappa was, it's a no brainer. They showed their true feelings there. Being delusional and lying to yourself doesn't change anything.
Krillen and Yamcha know they have no shot against Goku, period.
Krillen and Yamcha know they have no shot against Goku, period.
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Ahill, no one is willing to write walls of text. You could have easily summarized your stuff into a few lines.
On topic...
King Chappa- 6
Goku (vs Chappa)- 7
Krillin- 7.5
Krillin saw Goku displaying power close to his own max, with facial expressions that showed he wasn't really
trying. It was natural that he would feel worried after that. He tested the waters by saying to Goku ''don't
use your full power''. When Goku said that he wasn't, Krillin was like ''Man, i'm screwed... no, no, calm down,
maybe his real power is like an 8; in that case, with my 7.5, i still have a chance. Let's hope that he wasn't
holding back as much power as it seemed and he was only trying to act cool''.
On topic...
King Chappa- 6
Goku (vs Chappa)- 7
Krillin- 7.5
Krillin saw Goku displaying power close to his own max, with facial expressions that showed he wasn't really
trying. It was natural that he would feel worried after that. He tested the waters by saying to Goku ''don't
use your full power''. When Goku said that he wasn't, Krillin was like ''Man, i'm screwed... no, no, calm down,
maybe his real power is like an 8; in that case, with my 7.5, i still have a chance. Let's hope that he wasn't
holding back as much power as it seemed and he was only trying to act cool''.
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Except Yamcha didn't think anyone could handle Chappa as easily as Goku did. Krillen is about the same as Yamcha.
Goku > Krillen/Yamcha > Chappa
Yamcha is saying he is not capable of replicating what Goku just did. Krillen is almost the same power. Goku vs Krillen is a rivaling range, so Krillen should almost be able to replicate Goku, but he probably can't.
Goku > Krillen/Yamcha > Chappa
Yamcha is saying he is not capable of replicating what Goku just did. Krillen is almost the same power. Goku vs Krillen is a rivaling range, so Krillen should almost be able to replicate Goku, but he probably can't.
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Kuririn and Yamcha's face doesn't say jack shit about them having no chance against Goku. Like I said, Jackie Chun was also rather surprised there, with the only difference that he wasn't flabbergasted like Kuririn and Yamcha. But he was with his eyes wide open, sweating and saying things might be bad to him. It was all to show Goku wasn't there to play, as previously Yamcha had been already calling his victory a sure thing whilst in the airoplane:p123 said:
http://mangaseeonline.us/read-online/Dragon-Ball-chapter-113-page-1.html
Nobody is "lying to himself" here, you are the one ignoring Roshi stating every one of them still had a chance of winning the Tournament and Kuririn being implied to still be unaware about Goku hiding even more power despite Goku stating what he used against Chappa was just the tip of the iceberg. Ergo, it's likely Kuririn and Yamcha are above the level Goku used against Chappa-o, but Goku's full power is still a mystery and likely above their power.
Even if I were to argue that they knew they had no chance against Goku, that still wouldn't mean the level Goku used against Chappa is above their power. Know why? Because Goku stated that power is just the tip of the iceberg.
So, even though Kuririn still knew the odds might not have been on his side, he'd have to be a pretty damn fool to try to convince himself he has some chance against Goku if he knew he was still weaker than the power of Goku that is still not comparable to his full power. THAT is a no brainer.
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p123 said:
Easily can also refer to the level of effort. If Krillin and Yamcha needed to fight to their limits or close to their limits to
replicate what Goku did, then it is not as easy for them as it was for Goku.
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p123 said:
p123 said:
You can probably chalk all this issue up to Toriyama's poor planning, I think. He probably changed his mind amidst the story and decided to have Yamcha and Kuririn more relevant than he intended. I think he previously intended to have Yamcha and Kuririn not all that much ahead of Chappa-o, but eventually changed his mind regarding their standing and thought having them that strong would work better.
This change in the story taken was also apparently seen with Kame-Sen'nin and Tenshinhan. They seemed pretty evenly in their fight, with Tenshinhan respecting Kame-Sen'nin, wondering who he is to be that strong... and then, suddenly, Tenshinhan begins implying Goku will be his first tough challenge, that he is happy there's someone like Goku.
But if I had to use an In Universe explanation, Yamcha was still not copying that well with Chappa's defeat due to this latter's reputation. Like I had previously said, seeing someone called by everyone a legend taking such humiliation might be really hard to grasp, even if he himself is enough to replicate those feats. Pay attention to Yamcha's statement as well: "I didn't think anyone could defeat Chappa that easily"... he is speaking in past tense, which could be implied that his past self, who knew Chappa only by the legends and rumors, wouldn't imagine this could happen. It isn't quite the same as saying "Chappa can't be defeated this easily", in which case then this latter's defeat could be more linked to his strength and not so much with his reputation. I am nitipicking the statements, but that could be looked as an alternative expalantion.
