Marik vs. Joey

[Animelover5487]

I can't tell if you're ironically trolling, or legitimately didn't read the thread, or are using Joey from the end of the series.

Even end of series Joey would struggle with Yami Marik. Anime Ra is one of the most broken cards on the show.

 

[Pyro]

Yeah, that makes sense. I can't see how any Joey could "stomp" Marik.

 

[kriss-]

I still think Marik should win here.

 

[Papasmurf]

Upon inspecting the OP more thoroughly @ Kamikaze Pyro: I noticed a discrepancy. You say Marik could've attempted a point to point transfer to further attack Joey, but I'm pretty sure both abilities can't be activated on the same turn in the original series since Phoenix Mode was treated as an attack rather than a monster destroying effect, and Ra would remain in that form with 0 atk until the end of the battle phase. The same situation occurs in Marik's duel with Yugi, where he had to use a separate spell card to re-revive Ra and repeat his Battle Phase before he could activate PtPT. So in a regular duel, Marik would've lost on the following turn.

 

[Pyro]

Upon inspecting the OP more thoroughly @ Kamikaze Pyro: I noticed a discrepancy. You say Marik could've attempted a point to point transfer to further attack Joey, but I'm pretty sure both abilities can't be activated on the same turn in the original series since Phoenix Mode was treated as an attack rather than a monster destroying effect, and Ra would remain in that form with 0 atk until the end of the battle phase. The same situation occurs in Marik's duel with Yugi, where he had to use a separate spell card to re-revive Ra and repeat his Battle Phase before he could activate PtPT. So in a regular duel, Marik would've lost on the following turn.

I'm sure they could be activated simultaneously. Marik didn't use it against Joey because he was banking on Ra's attack being enough to wipe him out without even touching his LP, and if he did transfer LP it wouldn't have beaten Joey anyway. But you could be right, so meh.

 

[Papasmurf]

Well he does activate both abilities on the same turn against Yugi when he attempted to destroy Obelisk with God Phoenix, but it just went to the graveyard after destroying a revived Slifer and he had to use Surprise Attack From Beyond before he could use PtPT to attempt another attack.

 

[Animelover5487]

Something I have been wondering about with BC Joey. Joey went through just about all of Battle City without his Red-Eyes and we knew up until that point Red-Eyes was Joey's most powerful card so I think it's within reason to say it somewhat handicapped his deck. How would the outcome of Joey's duels had changed if he had his Red-Eyes? Could he have stomped Weevil and Mako? Could he have beat Odion without the technicality? Could he contend with a serious Yami Marik?

Something tells me it wouldn't be much different but I am sure losing his Red-Eyes took a hit on his deck.

 

[Papasmurf]

Him acting like losing his Red-Eyes cost him his strongest card, then pulling Gilford in his last duel in that arc was hilarious

 

[Animelover5487]

Him acting like losing his Red-Eyes cost him his strongest card, then pulling Gilford in his last duel in that arc was hilarious

True. If he would have drew Gilford the Lightning he could have beat Odion. He sacrifices his Fisherman, Insect Queen and Jinzo summons Gilford uses his effect to destroy Mystical Beast Serket than attacks directly, gg.

 

[Papasmurf]

Yeah, and unlike Jinzo or the other cards he won in BC there's not even any point in the tournament he could've won that in. Either he got that shit post-Duelist Kingdom or... asspull

 

[Pyro]

I don't see the big deal about Red-Eyes. It's not Joey's best card – that's Gilford, and Jinzo is arguably second in line. Was it the only card he "won" in Duelist Kingdom? Otherwise, I don't see the sentimental appeal either, but I haven't watched that part of the show in ages. Realistically, it's a shit card without its major support, given it's a 7-star monster (so 2 tributes) with a measly 2400 ATK and no special effects. At least Jinzo destroys traps (anime-wise) and only requires 1 tribute. It should be easy enough to topple even in the anime. Yugi including it in his deck against Kaiba was such a transparent asspull to showcase the bond of friendship.

Even if Joey had it in his deck against Weevil, Mako, and Odion, he would've come to the same results.

Also, I think I've reconsidered Joey's placement in comparison to Mai. Watching Joey's duel with Marik, I noticed Marik (and Kaiba) seemed to compliment Joey somewhat frequently toward the end when he started countering, and Marik actually felt the need to use Ra, and in its true form no less. I don't remember Mai garnering many compliments, not as many as Joey anyway, and Marik only used Ra because it was funny to him that Mai couldn't wield it. So with that, I think it's fair to put Joey ahead of Mai at this point, if not equals at worst. Then again, it's difficult to rank anyone in YGO due to the show being more about different strategies and cards rather than straightforward power like DBZ...

 

[Animelover5487]

I don't see the big deal about Red-Eyes. It's not Joey's best card – that's Gilford, and Jinzo is arguably second in line. Was it the only card he "won" in Duelist Kingdom? Otherwise, I don't see the sentimental appeal either, but I haven't watched that part of the show in ages. Realistically, it's a shit card without its major support, given it's a 7-star monster (so 2 tributes) with a measly 2400 ATK and no special effects. At least Jinzo destroys traps (anime-wise) and only requires 1 tribute. It should be easy enough to topple even in the anime. Yugi including it in his deck against Kaiba was such a transparent asspull to showcase the bond of friendship.

Even if Joey had it in his deck against Weevil, Mako, and Odion, he would've come to the same results.

Also, I think I've reconsidered Joey's placement in comparison to Mai. Watching Joey's duel with Marik, I noticed Marik (and Kaiba) seemed to compliment Joey somewhat frequently toward the end when he started countering, and Marik actually felt the need to use Ra, and in its true form no less. I don't remember Mai garnering many compliments, not as many as Joey anyway, and Marik only used Ra because it was funny to him that Mai couldn't wield it. So with that, I think it's fair to put Joey ahead of Mai at this point, if not equals at worst. Then again, it's difficult to rank anyone in YGO due to the show being more about different strategies and cards rather than straightforward power like DBZ...

By 2002-2003 anime standards 2,400 is a somewhat big deal. Red-Eyes was the only card he won in Duelist Kingdom, and aside from that I felt Red-Eyes was Joey's signature monster especially since Blue-Eyes is Kaiba's, and Joey and Kaiba are portrayed as polar opposites but yeah there are a few cards in Joey's deck that are better. Red-Eyes overall is very situational. It was good in the first season when the show had very flimsy "rules" when you could basically summon whatever you want at no cost but by Battle City the show followed the actual card game more closely.

 

[Pyro]

Yeah, that's agreeable. 2400 ATK is decent for back then, but even then, for 2 tributes it's retarded.

 

[Papasmurf]

Something like Great Moth is treated like a great card in-universe in fairness.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Marik said only he can defeat Ishizu('s strategy), so Ishizu's got to be good at the game. Normal Marik also looked-down on Jonouchi & his skills so he might be decent himself.

 

[Papasmurf]

Marik said only he can defeat Ishizu('s strategy), so Ishizu's got to be good at the game. Normal Marik also looked-down on Jonouchi & his skills so he might be decent himself.

Whether he had an Egyptian God or not, Normal Marik almost had Atem beat so he wasn't bad at all by any means. Normal Marik's Duelist parameters were only one point lower than Yami-Marik's too, only lower in terms of courage iirc.