Mecha Freeza vs Namek Goku, Namek SSJ Vegeta

[SSJ2]

Who wins?

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Who the hell is Prince Cold? As for the topic, I think Cold can beat Vegeta but not Goku.

 

[SSJ2]

What do you mean? It's King Cold's son, the Prince.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

Team wins.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

You mean Freeza? Damn. If that's the case then Freeza still loses because of Vegeta's interference like Jeice did against Goku.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Considering Freeza still viewed double-teaming with Cold as an option, he's likely just marginally above SSJ Namek Goku. Vegeta's inclusion is enough to shift things in the Saiyans' favour.

 

[p123]

Freeza one shots. Freeza has witnessed insane power progression right in front of his very eyes. It's nearly two years, he's expecting Goku to be much stronger.

 

[Super Neko Majin Z]

I view Mecha Frieza as being fairly similar to 100% Frieza but with much better stamina. Then again, Vegeta really isn't powerful enough to do anything except get another hole in the chest. It could go either way.

 

[freezamite]

Considering Mecha Freezer was just slightly above his father transformed, and probably had around 1.000.000 of power, of course the SSJ beat him like he was nothing. Even Piccolo could've trounced Mecha Freezer in the earth...

 

[Big Ank]

I am in the same board as Captain Cadaver here. Mecha Freeza should be more or less around SSJ Goku at Namek, and I have a hypothetical SSJ Vegeta in Namek around King Cold's power. Considering Freeza was sure that with his father's help they could take out SSJ Namek Goku, then I'm sure a team of better fighters could take out Mecha Freeza, who should be slightly stronger than Namek SSJ Goku at best.

 

[freezamite]

I am in the same board as Captain Cadaver here. Mecha Freeza should be more or less around SSJ Goku at Namek, and I have a hypothetical SSJ Vegeta in Namek around King Cold's power. Considering Freeza was sure that with his father's help they could take out SSJ Namek Goku, then I'm sure a team of better fighters could take out Mecha Freeza, who should be slightly stronger than Namek SSJ Goku at best.

If Mecha Freezer was at SSJ Namek Goku levels of powers, how did it get trashed by Trunks who had the same power level as SSJ Goku at Namek?

 

[KyuubiAhri]

Troll answer:
Because,bitch.....I drink people.

Serious answer:
Because,bitch.....Trunks was stronger than Namek goku

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Even Piccolo could've trounced Mecha Freezer in the earth...

The same Piccolo who felt that he and all the other Z-Senshi facing Freeza was a hopeless endeavour? 2

If Mecha Freezer was at SSJ Namek Goku levels of powers, how did it get trashed by Trunks who had the same power level as SSJ Goku at Namek?

Same Ki =/= Same amount of Ki
Goku also commented on Trunks' ability to kill Freeza with one blow when talking about the Artificial Humans without referring solely to a supressed Freeza, implying the result would've been similar had Freeza been at 100%. Clearly SSJ Namek Goku couldn't do the same to Freeza, let alone Mecha Freeza.

 

[freezamite]

Troll answer:
Because,bitch.....I drink people.

Serious answer:
Because,bitch.....Trunks was stronger than Namek goku

Trunks wasn't stronger than Namek Goku, not only Gohan says he had the same Ki than Namek Goku but there's also the scene where Goku admits he didn't have time to train his strength in Yadrat.
And then we have Mecha Freezer's ki being described as being much lower than in Namek and his performance in the fight being close to the one his father (who was weaker than him) did while transformed.

It wasn't Trunks being stronger, it was MF being weak.

The same Piccolo who felt that he and all the other Z-Senshi facing Freeza was a hopeless endeavour?

Did you miss the part where Gohan (and of course the rest of the z-warriors that knew Freezer) assumed he was restraining his power? Of course they felt it was a hopeless endeavour, they assumed Freezer would've had the same strength he showed in Namek.

Same Ki =/= Same amount of Ki

If Gohan thought Trunks was Goku, it's because he had the same amount of Ki as well, otherwise he would've at least said that his father was now much more powerful than in Namek, because it would've made no sense for Gohan to sense a Ki much bigger than Namek's Goku (a Ki that was a bit different than Goku's as well, because later in the series they can perfectly distinguish Trunks from Goku) and say nothing about it (not even "hey guys calm down, this is my father and his ki is much bigger now).
And if that wasn't enough you have the actual Goku stating that he didn't have time to train during that year besides learning the instant transmission having a strength comparable to Trunks, so...

Goku also commented on Trunks' ability to kill Freeza with one blow when talking about the Artificial Humans without referring solely to a supressed Freeza, implying the result would've been similar had Freeza been at 100%.

What sense would make for Goku to defend Freezer? I mean, Trunks has saved the earth,would it make any sense for Goku to tell him "hey you think you're strong? That Freezer wasn't at his peak so don't get cocky!".
We already know Freezer wasn't as strong when Gohan told us about his power, he didn't increase his strength to fight Trunks and he performed at the same level as his transformed father that by the way was weaker than him. And also when SSJ Goku proved to be at the same level of SSJ Trunks without having had time to train his SSJ Form besides learning to transform at will.
There's few more ways Toriyama could've made clear Freezer wasn't at his peak there without breaking the character's personality, and even then he reinforced this idea again in the Cell saga when Krilin didn't consider the androids to be stronger than Freezer in a conversation with Goku.

 

[KyuubiAhri]

In the japanese manga gohan says "same type of ki" not " same amount of ki"

 

[freezamite]

In the japanese manga gohan says "same type of ki" not " same amount of ki"

He doesn't say "same type", he simply says "same Ki". The thing is, Gohan mistook Trunks for his father and commented nothing on him being much stronger. And after that, we see SSJ Goku being able to match Trunks' power and stating that he hadn't had much time to train and that the few things he could do was to learn how to transform at will and learn the instant transmission.

Why would Gohan, if the Ki he was feeling was much, much stronger than SSJ Namek Goku, not say anything about it? He could still think this was Goku, but hey, that Goku would be powerful enough to one-shot Namek's Goku, and they were all scared about Freezer, why would Gohan hide such an important information?
If Toriyama had wanted to make Trunks much stronger than Goku in Namek, and Mecha stronger than Freezer, he would've done it in the usual way. But he purposely wrote Gohan's comment about Mecha's strength, he purposely drew Cold transformed and also stated multiple times that he was weaker than his son, and he purposely made Mecha perform at transformed Cold's level even after Trunks clearly gave him time to prepare for the fight.
He also purposely made Gohan mistook Trunks for Goku, he purposely made Goku say he didn't have much time to train, and he purposely made that scene where Trunks and Goku compare each other strength and are more or less equal.

I mean, we have that scene about Vegeta and Kiwi/Dodoria to show that Vegeta had gotten much stronger than in the earth, or that scene about the z-warriors beating the saibamen that were more or less at Raditz's levels of powers to show how strong the z-warriors had become and how terrible Nappa and Vegeta were.
If Toriyama's intent was simply to make regular Freezer obsolete in front of the SSJ, he would've done it. It would've been as easy as to not put that dialogue of Gohan about Mecha's power, draw Cold in his true form and say Trunks was much stronger than Goku ever was. But he did what he did for a reason, and that can't be dismissed.

 

[Pyro]

They knew Goku was still alive. Why would he not have gotten stronger in the almost 2 years after Freeza?

We know Freeza can accurately guesstimate someone's power even though he lacks ki sensing abilities. He assumed with his power-up that he could take Goku alone, disregarding any power-up of Goku's own. How does that work if Trunks is the same power as Goku on Namek, and yet could own Freeza near effortlessly? I don't get it.

We also have Trunks stating Goku is even greater than the rumors, which points to Goku being noticeably stronger than his Namek self since the rumors came from people close to Goku in the future.

 

[Big Ank]

Yeah, I just think Mecha Saga Trunks was stronger than Namek Saga Goku by a good margin, enough that he was pretty confident in taking out someone possibly stronger than Namek SSJ Goku. Trunks gives two fuck if Freeza powers up or no and everyone who comments on Freeza's defeat later on only mentions Trunks' capability of disposing of Freeza quickly, without giving any indication that the result would be different if Mecha Freeza were at full power.

Gohan said Freeza had the same chi as Goku (Onaji Chi), not the same type of chi (Onaji Gurai no Chi), as Herms made note:


Chapter: 331 (DBZ 137), P13.3
Gohan: “It’s fa-father!!! It’s the same ki as father back then!!”
Note: Gohan says it’s the ‘same ki’ (onaji ki), rather than the ‘same amount of ki’ (onaji gurai no ki).

Having the same chi doesn't equal having the same amount of chi. When searching for a Namekian that could replace Kami-Sama's role at the Dragon Balls, Goku stated he has to find people with a chi similar to Piccolo's:

But obviously those Namekians wouldn't get even on Piccolo's foot concerning chi size.

 

[freezamite]

They knew Goku was still alive. Why would he not have gotten stronger in the almost 2 years after Freeza?

Because he didn't spent those two years training. He went from Namek to Yadrat, then he spent a lot of time recovering from his injuries without a senzu bean, then he spent a lot of time trying to learn to transform into a SSJ at will and finally he decided to spent the rest of his time learning a new technique and travelling to the earth.
I mean, Goku said he didn't had much time to train, and Gohan compared Trunk's ki with his father in Namek. Him assuming his father would be much, much stronger and omitting this information makes no sense considering every time Goku increased his strength through training that didn't prevent the z-warriors to notice it and be amazed at it multiple times.

We know Freeza can accurately guesstimate someone's power even though he lacks ki sensing abilities.

No, what Freezer can do is to notice someone is not fighting with all he's got, which is something anyone could do. This has nothing to do with sensing or guessing someone's hidden power, as it's proven by the fact that Freezer didn't expect Trunks to be a SSJ.

He assumed with his power-up that he could take Goku alone, disregarding any power-up of Goku's own. How does that work if Trunks is the same power as Goku on Namek, and yet could own Freeza near effortlessly? I don't get it.

It works because Freezer's power was much lower than it was in Namek, as stated by Gohan himself. As it happens with a lot of characters after his ki has changed drastically, the only way for Freezer to know the extent of his new power would've been to test it. But Freezer isn't one to test or train, so he felt recovered, he felt he had better control of his ki -which if true would've meant he had powered up-, and rushed to earth to get his revenge.
The proof that Freezer didn't know the extent of his new power is that he spoke as if he still was stronger than his father:
http://mangalife.us/read-online/Dragon-Ball-chapter-137-index-2-page-3.html
But in reality he performed just at his father's level... while transformed into a form of power contention (both dodge at the same speed):
http://mangalife.us/read-online/Dragon-Ball-chapter-137-index-2-page-17.html

We also have Trunks stating Goku is even greater than the rumors, which points to Goku being noticeably stronger than his Namek self since the rumors came from people close to Goku in the future.

This only means that Trunks didn't expect Goku to be as strong as he was, nothing more, nothing less. Firstly, he says "rumours" which means that it wasn't precise information. The rumours would probably only be Gohan complaining about Goku's death and him saying Goku was incredibly strong and that with his help beating the future androids would've been feasible at best.
He didn't know nothing about Vegeta, and I don't think they spent the whole time speaking of Goku while the androids were blasting the earth. Heck, even Trunks praising Goku trying to befriend him considering he was there expecting to learn a few tricks on how to defeat the androids in his timeline would be more reasonable than Trunks having exact information on Goku's ki at Namek and calling it "a rumor".

Trunks gives two fuck if Freeza powers up or no and everyone who comments on Freeza's defeat later on only mentions Trunks' capability of disposing of Freeza quickly, without giving any indication that the result would be different if Mecha Freeza were at full power.

The question is... why would they even give a fuck about that? We already knew Mecha's power was lower than in Namek through Gohan's comments about both Mecha and Trunk's powers, and also by the fact that a Goku that didn't had much time to train (and the few time he had he spent it learning the instant transmission) matched him in strength.
What is the point in Gohan, Goku or Piccolo to point that Freezer should've had more power than that? Freezer was dead, everyone was happy, end of the story.

Heck, Trunks lied about the future androids being that much stronger than him and if it wasn't because the androids from the present were much stronger he would've said nothing about it, and the same goes for Goku when he lied about his SSJ3 not being able to defeat the Fat Majin Bu. DB is a well written manga, it may have some flaws, but it has pretty realised characters that speak not only to describe a situation but also according to their personalities, their aims and what would make more sense to say. That's not to say there aren't forced scenes (Cell not remembering that Piccolo could regenerate his arm was a weak excuse to make character exposure), but all in all, it's pretty good in that regard.

I insist, we already knew what we needed to know, and there was no point on defending Freezer in front of Trunks. But since you mention it, when Krilin explains Goku about Cell's aim and they're all worried about the possibility of Cell becoming perfect Krilin says this:

Chapter: 366 (DBZ 172), P4.5-6
Kuririn: “Goku, tell us—This thing’s even more terrible than Freeza. Are you scared by that? Or excited?”
Goku: “…Both…”

Krilin felt Freezer at least up to his 50% of power, and he left the androids out of the question even when those androids were actively looking for Goku in order to kill him, and they were clearly stronger than Mecha Freezer or any SSJ was at that moment.