Movie 10 Scalling

[Dagon]

Super Saiyan 3 was required for Fat Buu though

Movie Saiyans can scale differently from canon Saiyans.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Movie Saiyans can scale differently from canon Saiyans.

Sure, but I don't think they are intended to be completely different characters. The purpose of using a character such as Super Saiyan 2 Gohan, is to show a character relative to the strength of the character in the original story.

Let's say we made Raditz Beerus level. He would essentially no longer be Raditz. Raditz should be around his level, because the power defines the character. The two go hand in hand.

Sure, there are variances, but it would be weird for Super Saiyan Goku from M5 to be say Super Saiyan Goku's level from ToP. Consistency here is key to the entire premise of the movie.

 

[Dagon]

Super Saiyan 3 was required for Fat Buu though

I have Broly slightly weaker than Fat Buu which can still be in range of movie-canon SSJ2s and Pikkon. So Majin Buu is still past the SSJ2 threshold, but movie SSJ2s can be closer to that range.

Sorry, my phone crapped out and wouldn't show the updated page.

 

[Power Level Guy]

So Majin Buu is still past the SSJ2 threshold, but movie SSJ2s can be closer to that range.

It's likely that not even 3 Post Zeta Super Saiyan 2 Gohans can defeat Fat Buu. I feel like you are underestimating just how powerful Fat Buu is. Like, Ssj3 Goku needs to work to beat him.

Ssj2 level in the movies is not competing with Post Zeta Gohan.

 

[Dagon]

It's likely that not even 3 Post Zeta Super Saiyan 2 Gohans can defeat Fat Buu. I feel like you are underestimating just how powerful Fat Buu is. Like, Ssj3 Goku needs to work to beat him.

Ssj2 level in the movies is not competing with Post Zeta Gohan.

Because?

 

[Power Level Guy]

Because?

Post Zeta Gohan is the highest rung of the Super Saiyan 2 level. Any higher and it's Super Saiyan 3 level.

 

[Dagon]

Post Zeta Gohan is the highest rung of the Super Saiyan 2 level. Any higher and it's Super Saiyan 3 level.

That's very arbitrary. Like what, does a cosmic law of the universe stop them from achieving a higher power without Super Saiyan 3? What you are saying is like saying any power higher than 60 million requires Super Saiyan because Goku only surpassed 60 million with Suoer Saiyan initially. So no base Saiyan surpasses 60 million.

 

[Power Level Guy]

That's very arbitrary. Like what, does a cosmic law of the universe stop them from achieving a higher power without Super Saiyan 3?

As I said. The terms Super Saiyan 2 and Super Saiyan 3 have meaning that go beyond the words. They inhabit a realm of power which is portrayed as the basis of the entire movie.

What you are saying is like saying any power higher than 60 million requires Super Saiyan because Goku only surpassed 60 million with Suoer Saiyan initially. So no base Saiyan surpasses 60 million.

This would be true, so long as it's pre Grade Form and pre MSSJ.

Regular ol Super Saiyan means regular ol Super Saiyan. For a Base Saiyan to be wildly superior to 150 million or what have you, without undergoing the appropriate training, it would be very unlikely for him to exist in this realm of power.

Such is the point of the movie. These forms signify ranges of power that are not allowed to be broken as not to disrespect the form.

 

[Dagon]

As I said. The terms Super Saiyan 2 and Super Saiyan 3 have meaning that go beyond the words. They inhabit a realm of power which is portrayed as the basis of the entire movie.


This would be true, so long as it's pre Grade Form and pre MSSJ.

Regular ol Super Saiyan means regular ol Super Saiyan. For a Base Saiyan to be wildly superior to 150 million or what have you, without undergoing the appropriate training, it would be very unlikely for him to exist in this realm of power.

Such is the point of the movie. These forms signify ranges of power that are not allowed to be broken as not to disrespect the form.

You're really just making stuff up.

 

[Power Level Guy]

You're really just making stuff up.

It’s common sense stuff. Any reasonable person who sees the villain Raditz would assume he inhabits a Raditz level of battle power reasonable to the character unless otherwise specified.

The character is connected to the level of power he inhabits. That’s how it works.

 

[Dagon]

It’s common sense stuff. Any reasonable person who sees the villain Raditz would assume he inhabits a Raditz level of battle power reasonable to the character unless otherwise specified.

The character is connected to the level of power he inhabits. That’s how it works.

You've not given any concrete reasons. Really comes off as argument from incredulity.

 

[Power Level Guy]

You've not given any concrete reasons. Really comes off as argument from incredulity.

I already gave you a good reason. The character is marketed as being one with his power.

When you say even Majin Buu was defeated! That would mean the Majin Buu we all know and love who exhibited the same realm of power as before.

When Goku says, "You're tough, the last guy I needed to use Super Saiyan 3 on was Majin Buu!" it means the Majin Buu we all know and love. Not some randomly powered character.

This is the reasonable person standard. To make certain reasonable assumptions.

When someone says Beerus, we don't think he's possibly Raditz level.

 

[Dagon]

I already gave you a good reason. The character is marketed as being one with his power.

When you say even Majin Buu was defeated! That would mean the Majin Buu we all know and love who exhibited the same realm of power as before.

When Goku says, "You're tough, the last guy I needed to use Super Saiyan 3 on was Majin Buu!" it means the Majin Buu we all know and love. Not some randomly powered character.

This is the reasonable person standard. To make certain reasonable assumptions.

When someone says Beerus, we don't think he's possibly Raditz level.

Which is irrelevant because I'm not saying SSJ2 Goku in movie 11 is stronger than Fat Buu. He's just close enough to Broly to subdue him with Pikkon's help. Seems that you're reading a very specific idea into what I'm saying that I'm not actually saying.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Which is irrelevant because I'm not saying SSJ2 Goku in movie 11 is stronger than Fat Buu. He's just close enough to Broly to subdue him with Pikkon's help. Seems that you're reading a very specific idea into what I'm saying that I'm not actually saying.

I'm just saying, that no amount of Super Saiyan 2s can defeat Majin Buu. Whereas 1 Super Saiyan 2 with a little help defeated Broly. Therefore disqualifying him from being Majin Buu territory. Make sense?

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

@Power Level Guy

You're giving more merit to Goten & Gohan to what it can be given to the sun. And Broly is using a small blast with barely charge to basically overpower them both.

 

[Power Level Guy]

@Power Level Guy

You're giving more merit to Goten & Gohan to what it can be given to the sun. And Broly is using a small blast with barely charge to basically overpower them both.

Ssj Goten’s help should be largely inconsequential.


Base Gohan > Ssj Goten

So it’s really just Gohan’s own power. Who creates a blast that completely overwhelms Broly.


Gohans Blast > Broly

There’s a limit on ki amp.


Gohan isn’t far away from Broly. And he’s not all that strong.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

Ssj Goten’s help should be largely inconsequential.


Base Gohan > Ssj Goten

So it’s really just Gohan’s own power. Who creates a blast that completely overwhelms Broly.


Gohans Blast > Broly

There’s a limit on ki amp.


Gohan isn’t far away from Broly. And he’s not all that strong.

Base Gohan is weaker than Ssj Goten as shown in the beam struggle. An example of a blast that overwhelms an opponent would be like what Trunks did with Imperfect Cell, in this case, it just pushed him largely back and just got annhilated by the sun.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

Also this movie is loaded with inconsistencies, Broly can be defeated by lava, even though, Namek SSJ Goku is unaffected by it. Does this mean Namek SSJ Goku > LSSJ Broly (M10)?

 

[Power Level Guy]

Base Gohan is weaker than Ssj Goten as shown in the beam struggle.

Base Gohan outperformed Ssj Goten against Ssj Broly.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Namek SSJ Goku is unaffected by it.

Where is that suggested? Wasn't Goku worried about lava himself?