Movie 12 SSJ Gogeta runs the gaunlet

[Natasha Romanoff]

Case #1: SSJ3 Gotenks

Case #2: Ultimate Gohan

Case #3: Gotenks Buu

Case #4: Gohan Buu

Actual explanations and valid logic are welcomed to try to establish a limit to SSJ Gogeta, headcanon theories or logic such as "Movie 12 started its production at therefore Gogeta has to be weaker than blah blah blah" aren't welcomed here.

To give more advantage, sources such as V-Jump comparing him with Vegetto aren't valid on here. How far does he get?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Well I always liked to see Boo Saga Vegetto and M12 Vegetto as equivalents since they are, but if that's vetoed...

It's easy to downplay Gogeta to hell here since it's implied Base Potara is at least comparable to SSJ Metamorian (Goku thinking SSJ will be needed on Gotenks-Boo and being corrected by Old Kaioshin and all), but since Vegetto falls between Gotenks-Boo and Gohan-Boo, then it's possible so does Gogeta. Assuming Goku meant just SSJ1 when thinking of fusion (Since Vegetto only goes SSJ1 despite not knowing his own power), then Boo Saga SSJ Gogeta is already beating SSJ3 Gotenks and Ultimate Gohan. And this isn't even taking into account M12 Goku >> BS Goku, which is enough for M12 Gogeta to clear here.

 

[Six Trails]

Loses in round 1

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

Well I always liked to see Boo Saga Vegetto and M12 Vegetto as equivalents since they are, but if that's vetoed...

It's easy to downplay Gogeta to hell here since it's implied Base Potara is at least comparable to SSJ Metamorian (Goku thinking SSJ will be needed on Gotenks-Boo and being corrected by Old Kaioshin and all), but since Vegetto falls between Gotenks-Boo and Gohan-Boo, then it's possible so does Gogeta. Assuming Goku meant just SSJ1 when thinking of fusion (Since Vegetto only goes SSJ1 despite not knowing his own power), then Boo Saga SSJ Gogeta is already beating SSJ3 Gotenks and Ultimate Gohan. And this isn't even taking into account M12 Goku >> BS Goku, which is enough for M12 Gogeta to clear here.

Actually, it also depends at how powerful you have one fusion compared to the other (which I don't think the gap has to be that big). But, M12 SSJ2 Goku still being weaker than Fat Buu puts some limit at how strong he could have gotten (considering that Goku states that Janemba is the second one who pushes him to go to SSJ3 after Majin Buu).

But, SSJ Gogeta on his own and from what is stated has pretty much interesting and different things:

*His ki could be felt by SSJ Goten and Trunks from Afterlife, whereas they were unable to sense Ultimate Gohan from Kaioshin Realm
*SSJ Gogeta could tank Janemba, something which Gohan never proved to be able to do with Super Buu
*As you pointed out, there's the idea that Metamoran Gokhan who should be equal to Gogeta, as Gohan has to lower his power to Goku (who's equal to Vegeta), being able to defeat Gotenks Buu in just his SSJ form

Loses in round 1

Why is that?

 

[Six Trails]

Because he's weaker

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

Your reasoning being...?

 

[Six Trails]

There is no reason. My assessment is entirely arbitrary. There's not enough information available to accurately gauge Gogeta's strength compared to the fighters on the gauntlet.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

Actually, I think there is, at least for Gotenks and Gohan, Gogeta was stated to be able to defeat Base Super Buu, and considering that no fusion other than Gotenks was ever intended to use SSJ3, I think SSJ Gogeta is the most logical option. As well as there are the implications of metamoran Gokhan vs Gotenks Buu (Goku at this point knows for sure how strong Gotenks was in relation to Goten and Trunks).

SSJ Gogeta killed Janemba effortlessly, who seem to be treated as an equal to Base Super Buu, he also showed to be able to tank him, whereas the other ones not (SSJ3 Gotenks was also pushed back while Ultimate Gohan was on the deffensive against him).

 

[Six Trails]

I thought the thread was about movie 12 Gogeta?

Regardless the statements about a hypothetical Gogeta's manga strength are fairly vague and taking them to mean SS Gogeta specifically is a fine interpretation but not really supported by anything. I'm not sure what the metamoran Gokhan implications have to do with Gogeta either.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

Why Movie 12 Gogeta would be weaker than canon Gogeta? Vegeta is still as strong as his Buu saga self, so Gogeta still scales of everything that was said about him. Metamoran Gokhan would be equal to Gogeta, as Gohan has to lower his power to Goku and both Goku and Vegeta are equals as Goku only surpass him due to SSJ3.

 

[Six Trails]

Metamoran Gokhan would be equal to Gogeta, as Gohan has to lower his power to Goku and both Goku and Vegeta are equals as Goku only surpass him due to SSJ3.

Gohan would have to match his power to Goku's to fuse because you need to be perfectly in synch to perform Fusion. There's no statement or implication that this would impact the resulting fusion's power.

 

[Classic Adamas]

There is no reason. My assessment is entirely arbitrary. There's not enough information available to accurately gauge Gogeta's strength compared to the fighters on the gauntlet.

I agree.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

Gohan would have to match his power to Goku's to fuse because you need to be perfectly in synch to perform Fusion. There's no statement or implication that this would impact the resulting fusion's power.

What are you trying to say?

 

[Six Trails]

What are you trying to say?

That one fusee having to lower their battle power to do the fusion dance doesn’t necessarily mean their full power isn’t factored into the resulting fusion.

 

[Pakl]

headcanon theories or logic such as "Movie 12 started its production at therefore Gogeta has to be weaker than blah blah blah" aren't welcomed here.

So the valid logic of how TOEI makes the movies is not welcomed here?

Anyway. Janemba was clearly meant to mirror Evil Boo. M12 SSjin Gogeta ~ Ultimate Gohan. You can even see a similiar way of beating that both Janemba and Evil Boo got.

Ultimate Gohan and Evil Boo were indeed the strongest in the manga by the time Movie 12 started it's production. How can SSjin Gogeta be compared to someone who never existed? Is he comparable to nothing.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

So the valid logic of how TOEI makes the movies is not welcomed here?

I don't think Toei was thinking of establishing Gogeta a limit or comparing him with other character in terms of power, my esteemed, actually the only thing I think they were thinking is Gogeta being the strongest and shows how he is by a solid margin.

Anyway. Janemba was clearly meant to mirror Evil Boo. M12 SSjin Gogeta ~ Ultimate Gohan. You can even see a similiar way of beating that both Janemba and Evil Boo got.

Gogeta easily dispatched Janemba and tanked his last blow which is even more impressive than SSJ2 Gohan receiving Perfect Cell's punch to the face, Gohan on the other hand, needed to block Super Buu's hits and reflected effort in some of his punches. Are not comparable cases in the least.

Ultimate Gohan and Evil Boo were indeed the strongest in the manga by the time Movie 12 started it's production. How can SSjin Gogeta be compared to someone who never existed? Is he comparable to nothing.

The strongest ones were Ultimate Gohan & SSJ3 Gotenks (if anything), and even then, Gogeta isn't mean to be compared with anything more than what he was shown on screen. Manga implications regarding his power, regardless it appeared afterwards, still works on him.

Anyways, your argument is disqualified from this.

 

[2015 Chevrolet Malibu]

I don't think Toei was thinking of establishing Gogeta a limit or comparing him with other character in terms of power, my esteemed, actually the only thing I think they were thinking is Gogeta being the strongest and shows how he is by a solid margin.

Gogeta easily dispatched Janemba and tanked his last blow which is even more impressive than SSJ2 Gohan receiving Perfect Cell's punch to the face, Gohan on the other hand, needed to block Super Buu's hits and reflected effort in some of his punches. Are not comparable cases in the least.

The strongest ones were Ultimate Gohan & SSJ3 Gotenks (if anything), and even then, Gogeta isn't mean to be compared with anything more than what he was shown on screen. Manga implications regarding his power, regardless it appeared afterwards, still works on him.

Anyways, your argument is disqualified from this.

2015 Chevrolet Malibu

 

[Pakl]

Spoiler

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

Spoiler

How this is supposed to make a potential comparison is beyond me, also you should've waited for your Anime/Movie comparison when it comes to Movie 12.

Gogeta vs Janemba is big enough for a tanking gap to happen, nothing indicates Gohan vs Buu is. On top of that, one of them has already proved his limits whereas the other one never could be put in test to the full exent of his capabilities, as well as nobody has put him on a tough fight.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

Janemba doesn't make anything that can worry Gogeta the way Buu does with Gohan, though.

Also, there are major differences as both fights doesn't even began in the same way and has differences in between (as well as scenes that in one instance happened whereas in the other one not):

Spoiler