Multipliers DBS Manga

[GreatSaiyaman123]

If people can treat characters as total idiots when it's beneficial to them, why can't I do the same for Whis here?

They can’t tho

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

But to be fair, saying Vegeta is “<10%” when in reality he’s at less than 1% isn’t really idiotic. Just incredibly vague.

Hell I can buy that based on Toyotaro probably being a bad dialogue writter, but the rest of the community would chew me for that so nah.

 

[SSJ2]

5% is the lowest I would go regarding that statement.

 

[SIAD]

Manga:

Base = 1
SSJ = 2.5
SSJ2 (Goku / Vegeta) = 5 / 16
SSJ3 = 10
SSJG = 25
SSJB = 50
PSSJB = 250
SSJBE = 2,500

ToP (Anime)

Base (FNF - Zamasu) = 0.05
Base (ToP) = 1
SSJ = 2.5
SSJ2 = 5
SSJ3 = 10
SSJG = 25
SSJB = 50
SSJBE (Initial / FP) = 1,000 / 2,500.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

What about Golden Freeza? Does that form have a multiplier? FnF implies it’s bigger than even SSJB, but then the ToP places 4th form Freeza on SSJ1 tier. Or is it that Freeza ~ ToP Base Goku >> Caulifla?

 

[Pyro]

What about him?

You might be able to figure out multipliers that work for God and Blue, but then you have to factor in how fighters opposite the main cast affect those boosts.

SSJ2 Vegeta > SSJ Black > Black > SSJ3 Goku

How does God and Blue work with that in mind?

They can’t tho

Yeah, but they do...

What about Golden Freeza? Does that form have a multiplier? FnF implies it’s bigger than even SSJB, but then the ToP places 4th form Freeza on SSJ1 tier. Or is it that Freeza ~ ToP Base Goku >> Caulifla?

It's different for the anime and manga IIRC. RoF is still basically the same, but the anime recruitment showed Base Goku ~ 4th Form Freeza and Golden Freeza ~ SSJB Goku so the boost was uniform. The manga version didn't have a recruitment phase as in-depth, but it still implied the same about Base Goku and Freeza. Then in the ToP SSJ Caulifla was overpowering 4th Form Freeza, which would seem to indicate SSJ Caulifla is closer to Base Goku than she is to SSJ Goku, which would further imply Cabba and Vegeta are no longer equals since Cabba wasn't ever indicated to be that much stronger than Caulifla.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Cabba actually got his ass kicked by Caulifla btw.

When did Goku and Vegeta get so strong? After the tournament? During the Goku Black Saga?

 

[SSJ2]

You might be able to figure out multipliers that work for God and Blue, but then you have to factor in how fighters opposite the main cast affect those boosts.

SSJ2 Vegeta > SSJ Black > Black > SSJ3 Goku

How does God and Blue work with that in mind?

Why not just increase Vegeta's SSJ2 multiplier? I don't believe it was suggested that he was that far ahead of Goku in equal forms, but his SSJ2 ended up being that strong.

 

[Pyro]

Cabba actually got his ass kicked by Caulifla btw.

When did Goku and Vegeta get so strong? After the tournament? During the Goku Black Saga?

In the manga? When?

Why not just increase Vegeta's SSJ2 multiplier? I don't believe it was suggested that he was that far ahead of Goku in equal forms, but his SSJ2 ended up being that strong.

So Vegeta's SSJ2 is just stronger than Goku's SSJ3 all of the sudden? I'm not opposed to the idea, but it's just completely random and never really supported outside of that one fight.

 

[SSJ2]

So Vegeta's SSJ2 is just stronger than Goku's SSJ3 all of the sudden? I'm not opposed to the idea, but it's just completely random and never really supported outside of that one fight.

I don't see any other option. We saw Goku and Vegeta sparring in Base prior to going to the future and they were presented as equals. Vegeta was also surprised by Trunks' ability to match SSJ3 Goku with SSJ2, so maybe he learned how to do it himself from watching that fight. And while unrelated, his enraged self in BoG did show that his SSJ2 form could far surpass Goku. Perhaps he figured out how to tap into some of that after seeing Trunks.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I don't see any other option. We saw Goku and Vegeta sparring in Base prior to going to the future and they were presented as equals. Vegeta was also surprised by Trunks' ability to match SSJ3 Goku with SSJ2, so maybe he learned how to do it himself from watching that fight. And while unrelated, his enraged self in BoG did show that his SSJ2 form could far surpass Goku. Perhaps he figured out how to tap into some of that after seeing Trunks.

I think he learned it from Trunks during on their training before they went to the future.

In the manga? When?

No idea why you’d even think Cabba is stronger when that’s never suggested.

 

[Pyro]

I don't see any other option. We saw Goku and Vegeta sparring in Base prior to going to the future and they were presented as equals. Vegeta was also surprised by Trunks' ability to match SSJ3 Goku with SSJ2, so maybe he learned how to do it himself from watching that fight. And while unrelated, his enraged self in BoG did show that his SSJ2 form could far surpass Goku. Perhaps he figured out how to tap into some of that after seeing Trunks.

I guess that's fair enough. Others have suggested Vegeta simply got a lot stronger before going to the future, I guess from training with Trunks off-screen? But that sounds dumb as fuck to me.

I think he learned it from Trunks during on their training before they went to the future.

No idea why you’d even think Cabba is stronger when that’s never suggested.

Oh, that. I thought you meant Caulifla was beating SSJ Cabba. Well, that just makes it even more clear that Cabba didn't keep up with Vegeta past the U6 tournament. I'm fine with this. Even as a Super Saiyan, Caulifla wasn't completely overwhelming 4th Form Freeza. His telekinesis was giving her immense trouble, and even a surprise point-blank blast from the back didn't take him off his feet.

Damn, the U6 Saiyans fell way behind. Losers.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

When did they fall behind? Goku and Vegeta didn’t improve in the Black Saga besides SSJB mastery, and after that Goku didn’t even have time to train. Was it in the time between the tournament and Trunks’ arrival?

 

[Pyro]

When did they fall behind? Goku and Vegeta didn’t improve in the Black Saga besides SSJB mastery, and after that Goku didn’t even have time to train. Was it in the time between the tournament and Trunks’ arrival?

That, or they simply improved from their fights like Super seems to be going with. Cabba and Vegeta were equals in the U6 tournament, yet by the ToP, if Base Goku ~ 4th Form Freeza, Cabba can't be close to Vegeta at all since he's weaker than Caulifla who, as a Super Saiyan, was only mildly ahead of 4th Form Freeza and got absolutely tooled by a casual Golden Freeza.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Saiyans getting stronger mid fight would also explain why Goku could hang out the entire ToP with Jiren and the PSSJB Goku vs Gohan vs Kefla conudrum.

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

What about Golden Freeza? Does that form have a multiplier? FnF implies it’s bigger than even SSJB, but then the ToP places 4th form Freeza on SSJ1 tier. Or is it that Freeza ~ ToP Base Goku >> Caulifla?

I think its a form that's as strong as Perfected SSJB, so that would explain why they're both equal.

 

[SIAD]

I think Goku and Vegeta increased their powers by training the Mafuba and the Rosat respectively. With the amount of unjustified Axed out there in the series, it wouldn't be strange for Goku to increase his power by training the Mafuba.

Vegeta SSJB (Pre Rosat) was at best on the level of Goku Black SSJ (Peak), considering that he surpassed Vegeta SSJB immediately after taking a sensu.

If the SSJB consumes so much energy and in less than a second its power drops to a level to the SSJG, then why not better to use SSJG with a stable power?

Saying that the SSJR form is> SSJG, doesn't it mean that Goku Black SSJR is> Goku Black SSJG (Hypothetical)?

I just think that Goku and Vegeta had an increase in power, not necessarily gigantic, but big enough, to the level of surpassing Goku Black SSJR as SSJB.

As for the Golden Form Multiplier, I think it decreased, as Frieza continued to train. Perhaps by narrowing the gap between Golden Freeza over Freeza Fourth Form, it was because Freeza manages to stay in a Golden state.

Also I think the SSJ Multiplier on Base was 50x in the Manga, until in the U6 Tournament, it decreased to 2.5x. The Z Warriors saw the match between Goku Base vs Frieza Fourth Form in the FNF Manga. Later they show very impressed by how strong Goku Base has become, when facing Frost First Form (Goku was very suppressed at first).

 

[SSJ2]

I guess that's fair enough. Others have suggested Vegeta simply got a lot stronger before going to the future, I guess from training with Trunks off-screen? But that sounds dumb as fuck to me.

I think all of the options are dumb, realistically. It wasn't implied that there was any significant time for Vegeta to become that much stronger regardless of how he did it. I think him learning FPSSJ2 in that short time is possible but should have at least been expanded on.