My Gotenks decisive scalling

[Natasha Romanoff]

I think that I've finally find the light, let me believe which option should be the most correct one (I believe that SSJ Gotenks Pre is ahead of Fat Buu because of Fusion multiplier, there is no concrete evidence for the manga):

Pre Rosat Goten 240

Pre Rosat Trunks 250

Goku 600

SSJ Goten 12,000

SSJ Trunks 12,500

SSJ Goku 30,000

Base Gotenks 72,000

SSJ2 Goku 90,000

Fat Buu 288,000

SSJ3 Goku 360,000

SSJ Gotenks 360,000

Base Gotenks Post 288,000

SSJ Gotenks Post 1,440,000

When it comes to Base Gotenks Post I think Trunks is speaking abour Fat Buu for those reasons:

1- They didn't know Super Buu was stronger than Fat Buu and has the tendency to not take what Piccolo says seriously (Trunks was the one who made the statement and most of Gotenks' personality is based off him as he disobbey Piccolo when he told him to not go fight Fat Buu)

2- By the way it's phrased "we've progressed" seems to be that he is talking about a opponent who previously stomped him

3- He told to Buu "do you believe I'm the same foe you met before" implies that he didn't expected for Super Buu to not be any better than Fat Buu

If following the Ssj multiplier (x50) I have to nerf Base Gotenks weaker than the SSJ kids which it'd be going against the story and SSJ Gotenks would be extremely powerful Post Rosat which is insane.

Including Super Buu & SSJ3 Gotenks it would be like this:

Super Buu 2,700,000

SSJ3 Gotenks 2,880,000

What do you think?

 

[Dragon Ball Master]

I think that I've finally find the light, let me believe which option should be the most correct one (I believe that SSJ Gotenks Pre is ahead of Fat Buu because of Fusion multiplier, there is no concrete evidence for the manga):

Pre Rosat Goten 240

Pre Rosat Trunks 250

Goku 600

SSJ Goten 12,000

SSJ Trunks 12,500

SSJ Goku 30,000

Base Gotenks 72,000

SSJ2 Goku 90,000

Fat Buu 288,000

SSJ3 Goku 360,000

SSJ Gotenks 360,000

Base Gotenks Post 288,000

SSJ Gotenks Post 1,440,000

When it comes to Base Gotenks Post I think Trunks is speaking abour Fat Buu for those reasons:

1- They didn't know Super Buu was stronger than Fat Buu and has the tendency to not take what Piccolo says seriously (Trunks was the one who made the statement and most of Gotenks' personality is based off him as he disobbey Piccolo when he told him to not go fight Fat Buu)

2- By the way it's phrased "we've progressed" seems to be that he is talking about a opponent who previously stomped him

3- He told to Buu "do you believe I'm the same foe you met before" implies that he didn't expected for Super Buu to not be any better than Fat Buu

If following the Ssj multiplier (x50) I have to nerf Base Gotenks weaker than the SSJ kids which it'd be going against the story and SSJ Gotenks would be extremely powerful Post Rosat which is insane.

Including Super Buu & SSJ3 Gotenks it would be like this:

Super Buu 2,700,000

SSJ3 Gotenks 2,880,000

What do you think?

Gotenks should be like 3x above Goku, nothing more. That's kinda noob list

 

[Power Level Guy]

Base Gotenks cannot be stronger than Super Saiyan Goku. He must be much weaker.

 

[Dragon Ball Master]

Yes

 

[Power Level Guy]

Yes

But Base Gotenks > Super Saiyan Kids ~ Cell Jr. I don't know if you buy that though.

 

[Dragon Ball Master]

But Base Gotenks > Super Saiyan Kids ~ Cell Jr. I don't know if you buy that though.

Idk. I just remember having Gotenks outdoing Goku by a state, so SSJ Gotenks post HTC = SSJ2 Goku and SSJ3 Goku = SSJ2 Gotenks. I like to to keep the gap limited as Goku seemed really respectable in BoGs.

But base Gotenks being above SSJ kids have a strong stance because it pushed Piccolo back way more than the ssj kids alone.

I don't think Goten and Trunks are that strong. I've their SSJ at 18's level. Trunks even assured she won't die because it's 18. Trunks Is confident due to her strength. Though I had them on Freeza's level for a long time until recently.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

Gotenks should be like 3x above Goku, nothing more. That's kinda noob list

Nah, Base Gotenks is above the SSJ kids, so Gotenks has to be many times stronger than Goku.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Idk. I just remember having Gotenks outdoing Goku by a state, so SSJ Gotenks post HTC = SSJ2 Goku and SSJ3 Goku = SSJ2 Gotenks.

We have to stick to the facts. Super Saiyan Gotenks, before going into the Rosat is already at least on par with Super Saiyan 3 Goku. He then gets substantially stronger and adds two transformations as well.

I like to to keep the gap limited as Goku seemed really respectable in BoGs.

Goku is not only respectable, but he's the strongest. He previously was not the strongest and now with hard training, is the strongest.

But base Gotenks being above SSJ kids have a strong stance because it pushed Piccolo back way more than the ssj kids alone.

Indeed, Base Gotenks > Super Saiyan kids is very likely.

I don't think Goten and Trunks are that strong. I've their SSJ at 18's level.

A lot of times when we first start debating topics of a series we love, we are missing some of the facts due to our own personal observation of the series and interpretation. I've talked to a bunch of veterans and we have all shared a very similar experience. Coming in here with a passion for debating the series and have a few areas that were completely wrong, but it felt so right. So we'd make illogical arguments to try to force an interpretation that wasn't logically sound. I don't know your level of knowledge or how long you've been debating, but I promise you in 6 months you will hold much different views based on what I've seen from you. I love your passion, but remember, many people in here are debating this very topic for 10+ years. We have the documented proof on a variety of forums for this claim and we all know each other for a long time. Coming into a place where there is established veterans who are very knowledgeable and calling them noobs every time they don't agree with your lens is not the best approach. Chill out for now, speak your piece and try to digest what the actual arguments are. Your passion is great, just get a better process where you are more willing to accept logical points even if they go against your own and don't disparage others for having a different point of view. Take it from me, a person who's still reeling from the effects of being someone who didn't take people challenging my ideas all that well, it's not worth it, man. We are your buds, nowhere else in this world can you get the discussion on this topic to this level, appreciate your fellow brothers who love this topic and just take it easy.

I don't think Goten and Trunks are that strong. I've their SSJ at 18's level.

The Daizenshuu says that Base Trunks = Android 18. The Super manga says that Ssj Kid Trunks = Ssj Future Trunks from the CG, who is around the power of a Cell Jr.

Trunks even assured she won't die because it's 18.

Trunks is a suppressed Super Saiyan using a suppressed blast that most likely would easily kill 18. Trunks is overestimating how strong 18 is and she probably would have died if she took that head on.

Though I had them on Freeza's level for a long time until recently.

We all did this in the beginning. The main reason is this feeling of it being an "unearned" power. How would the kids be this strong when the adults had to work so hard just to be half their strength? It's not fair. It sucks. But the author decided to throw away two amazing sagas of logic to make the kids somewhat relevant to the adults for plot purposes. This is a trend that gets worse and worse in Super as well. I get it, it's hard to rationalize this nonsense. But plot determines power. Not logic. Logic has never determined power unfortunately, as much as we'd like it to.

 

[Dragon Ball Master]

I'm not new to this. I've been debating since 1999.

SSJ Gotenks doesn't need to be that strong. Piccolo was still a little tense and thought it'd be better for them to spend the remaining day training. He hadn't that tranquil vibe of a won battle... Which makes it seem like Gotenks is a work in progress.

He may be. But we don't know if he is. When Vegeta saw the way Beerus dealt with Gohan, he stated Beerus was much better than he was... Even though he was informed Goku was defeated in a single chop. Goku is respected... But we don't get an official saying on whether he outside them just yet

 

[Power Level Guy]

I'm not new to this. I've been debating since 1999.

So you should know better not to call people noobs who are discussing nuanced ideas with you.

SSJ Gotenks doesn't need to be that strong. Piccolo was still a little tense and thought it'd be better for them to spend the remaining day training. He hadn't that tranquil vibe of a won battle... Which makes it seem like Gotenks is a work in progress.

Goku could have defeated Fat Buu. He left the fate of the universe in the hands of the kids. If they can't beat Fat Buu, that would mean Goku left the universe to be doomed when he didn't finish off Buu. Is that what you think Goku did? Not only did he not finish off Buu, he also said not to use the RoSaT. That's how confident he is in Gotenks. Why are you any less confident?

But we don't get an official saying on whether he outside them just yet

Beerus confirms Goku > Gohan when he states that Vegeta and Goku were the most fun to play with.