My index for the Boo-Goku-Gohan-Gotenks debate

[Tapion]

So, Evil Vegeta quoted this compilation of arguments for the Pure Boo side of the debate a while back on Neoseeker, and I found that style of gathering evidence cool, so I decided to spend a few hours working on a similar model for the Super Boo, Gotenks and Gohan sides of the debate, with maybe some additional evidence.

The writing may be small sometimes, so right click it and go to the original imgur source where you can zoom on the pics.

Spoiler

Super Boo

Gohan

Gotenks (Pre-RoSaT)

Gotenks (Post-RoSaT)

Pure Boo

Anyway, I think that's about it.

As far as the Fat Boo vs. Goku debate goes, I'm starting to believe the gap even smaller than I had in the past, with the Daizenshuu 2 entry that states they are about even in power.

Spoiler: Fat Boo and Goku

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

That's a great way of compiling evidence, Tapion. I'm probably gonna do this for my posts as well.

I'm not sure if Super Boo saying only Gohan surpasses him counts, though. He'd also ignore Gotenks because his existence is limited, so he probably wouldn't count Goku either since he doesn't even exist in the living world anymore.

On the Pre Rosat Gotenks, I think you could also use the Volume's synopsys (Wrote by Toriyama himself) and the chapter title that says the boys have perfected fusion, fullfiling Goku's prophecy. There's also Gotenks saying he's gonna kill Boo after flying around and not being refuted by Piccolo.

You could've used Daizenshuu 7 saying Fat Boo is only somewhat below Pure Boo as well.

For the Fat Boo thing, I dunno if the title really implies Fat Boo powered up. To quote what I told Ahill once:

Actually, the title is mostly translated as "Majin Boo starts to see his true worth" in reference to his rebellion against Babidi, what is further reinforced by the title of the episode in the Anime ("Bye-Bye, Bobbidi!! Majin Boo Rebels") and Kai ("Beginning to See His True Worth — Boo’s Rebellion!").

Sure, the title can be translated as Majin Boo showing his true worth as well, given how the term 見え始めた (Mie Hajimeta) merely means his true worth/value is starting to surface.

Tapion, what do you think about the implications that Pure Boo is > Everyone else? Mainly the Genki Dama argument.

 

[Tapion]

Tapion, what do you think about the implications that Pure Boo is > Everyone else? Mainly the Genki Dama argument.

Goku states that "we and everyone else would have been done in" had Mr Boo and Mr. Satan not been there, which suggests he's only talking about everyone who was involved getting killed (that's what "done in" refers to, afterall).

I think the only thing that is indeed 100% up for interpretation is the fact that South Kaioshin Boo and Pure Boo have the same personality, and yet Pure Boo is the one who is referred to as the most dangerous Boo, as opposed to South Kaioshin Boo. But it seems that everyone considers South Kaioshin Boo as a mere state of being that Pure Boo was once in, and not really a 100% separate Boo.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Enma could've send Gohan or Gotenks to fight though. He did the same with Vegeta, after all.

There's also Gohan's donation not being enough even though Goku and Vegeta mentioned they'd gather all the Ki (Not Genki) they can. The Daizenshuu 7 entry for the Chou Genki Dama says it's a variant that takes Ki as well IIRC.

 

[Tapion]

Enma could've send Gohan or Gotenks to fight though. He did the same with Vegeta, after all.

There's also Gohan's donation not being enough even though Goku and Vegeta mentioned they'd gather all the Ki (Not Genki) they can. The Daizenshuu 7 entry for the Chou Genki Dama says it's a variant that takes Ki as well IIRC.

Except everyone thought Goku would wipe Boo out so there was no need to do so at that point, and quickly after it's revealed the strain of SSj3 is too big for him do so, Vegeta directly disregards the option of bringing either of them back to kill Boo in order to make the Earthlings fend for themselves for once in the series.

"Ki" is a general, all encompassing term so that's why.

Chapter: 237 (DBZ 43), P1.3/P3.6
Context: giving Kuririn the Genki-Dama
Goku: “Genki-Dama. Yes, ki that I gathered bit by bit from all over the Earth

This statement is about a normal Genki Dama, which we 100% know to only gather genki. It's exchanged for the sake of effectiveness, but that doesn't change the fact that it only gathers a specific portion of their ki.

Chapter: 514 (DBZ 320), P8.3-4
Context: after Vegeta tells Goku to make a Genki-Dama
Goku: “Hey! So it was the Genki-Dama you were thinking of!? It-it’s no use! Against Boo, no matter how much we gathered little bits of genki from all the Earthlings…”

Chapter: 514 (DBZ 320), P12.3
Goku: “Everyone! Give me as much genki as you possibly can! Please!”

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

But why is Goku vs Pure Boo taken as the showdown for universe's fate then? Daizenshuu 2 even says it would be the end of the universe if Boo won.

Agreed about the Genki Dama. Kuririn in Namek flip flops between saying Genki and Ki. Might also be the case Goku wanted to go for the overkill because of how the Genki Dama always fails. Daizenshuu 7 still bothers with a specific entry for the Chou Genki Dama saying it was made upon Goku requesting everybody's Ki, though.

 

[Tapion]

1.

Goku: “It’s alright. I’m tellin’ ya, don’t worry. He can’t come all the way here. We’ll think up some sorta strategy. I feel bad for the aliens who will be sacrificed in the meantime, but we’ll use the dragonballs later…”


Goku: “Alrii~~iight. I’d better go all out right from the start…! If we get done in, then the entire universe will go ‘poof’…”

Because Boo would go around destroying everything.

2.

The Daizenshuu includes a special entry for the Super Genki Dama for the exact same reason it includes countless variants of the Kamehameha. Both because it is way more powerful, and it is a notable variant that gathered ki from the entire world (or, potentially, the entire universe if DB Kai is taken as legitimate)

 

[Tapion]

On the Pre Rosat Gotenks, I think you could also use the Volume's synopsys (Wrote by Toriyama himself) and the chapter title that says the boys have perfected fusion, fullfiling Goku's prophecy

Can you show me where this is stated?

I'm not sure if Super Boo saying only Gohan surpasses him counts, though. He'd also ignore Gotenks because his existence is limited, so he probably wouldn't count Goku either since he doesn't even exist in the living world anymore.

Boo did count Gotenks. Remember that he wasn't sure Gohan's ki had surpassed his own up until he fought him, so when he says that if he absorbed "Super Gotenks", his throne as the strongest would never be shaken, he is actually saying Gotenks too was a potential threat to his throne.

Chapter: 499 (DBZ 305), P12.2-4
Gohan: “…That was dirty, you bastard…You ingested the two of them into yourself…”
Boo: “It’s your fault. You were stronger than I, who should have been the absolute strongest…When I sensed your distant presence, I started up on this strategy…In case maybe, just maybe, there was anyone stronger than myself…Then I hit upon it: if I absorbed that ‘Super Gotenks’ squirt I was fighting at the time, then no matter what kind of guy appeared, my throne as the strongest would not be shaken…”

No reason not to count Goku because Boo never knew Goku was dead, actually.

Also, Goku showed Gohan and the others Super Saiyan 3 in the Kaioshin Realm up close off-panel:

Spoiler

And his ki wasn't strong enough to reach the Earth like Gohan's, and even if it was Super Boo completely dismissed him. This goes hand in hand with Piccolo mistaking a suppressed Gohan for Goku yet believing he'd get trounced by Super Boo, and Gotenks Boo utterll dismissing Goku and relegating him to "that guy who showed me the weird transformations", while Gohan was the one who threatened his position.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Can you show me where this is stated?

Long, long ago. Son Goku set out on a journey in search of the seven dragon balls, which summon Shenlong when assembled, and gathered them all after a grand adventure. However, the balls were almost used for evil purposes, and ended up granting a stupid wish. After granting a wish Shenlong wouldn't appear again for over a year. In the meantime, Goku trained under Kame-sennin, and set out in search of the balls one more.

Time passed...The wizard Babidi awakened Majin Boo, who began killing all life on Earth. In order to defeat this mighty foe, Goten and Trunks at last perfected Fusion. However, just as Majin Boo befriended Satan and was about to give up killing, a terrible change occurred...!!

Boo did count Gotenks. Remember that he wasn't sure Gohan's ki had surpassed his own up until he fought him, so when he says that if he absorbed "Super Gotenks", his throne as the strongest would never be shaken, he is actually saying Gotenks too was a potential threat to his throne.

Chapter: 499 (DBZ 305), P12.2-4
Gohan: “…That was dirty, you bastard…You ingested the two of them into yourself…”
Boo: “It’s your fault. You were stronger than I, who should have been the absolute strongest…When I sensed your distant presence, I started up on this strategy…In case maybe, just maybe, there was anyone stronger than myself…Then I hit upon it: if I absorbed that ‘Super Gotenks’ squirt I was fighting at the time, then no matter what kind of guy appeared, my throne as the strongest would not be shaken…”

No reason not to count Goku because Boo never knew Goku was dead, actually.

Also, Goku showed Gohan and the others Super Saiyan 3 in the Kaioshin Realm up close off-panel:

Spoiler

And his ki wasn't strong enough to reach the Earth like Gohan's, and even if it was Super Boo completely dismissed him. This goes hand in hand with Piccolo mistaking a suppressed Gohan for Goku yet believing he'd get trounced by Super Boo, and Gotenks Boo utterll dismissing Goku and relegating him to "that guy who showed me the weird transformations", while Gohan was the one who threatened his position.

He mentions absorbing Gotenks because it would give him an edge over Gohan, not because it would kill two birds with an stone. If he were considering Gotenks an active threat like Gohan was he wouldn't have mentioned only Gohan surpassed him.

Though Goku showing SSJ3 seals the deal here. His Ki would've been sensed by Boo (As Goku's Ki was shown to transcend realms), and unlike Gotenks his existence isn't limited to a 30 minute time.

 

[Tapion]

I remember seeing Herms's clarification on that summary (because Viz's version was completely different, lol), but I never quite caught that...nice catch, that's solid.

He mentions absorbing Gotenks because it would give him an edge over Gohan, not because it would kill two birds with an stone. If he were considering Gotenks an active threat like Gohan was he wouldn't have mentioned only Gohan surpassed him.

Boo did not know Gohan was solidly stronger than him up until their fight, which is when he decided to go through with actually absorbing Gotenks. He sensed traces of Gohan's distant ki while waiting Piccolo's one hour. Boo never planned on absorbing Gotenks up until Gohan kicked his ass, so it was a really, really last time thing and it doesn't factor in the battle between Gotenks and Boo.

Chapter: 490 (DBZ 296), P4.1-2
Context: after Boo smacks Gotenks
Gotenks: “Heh…hehen…! You’re pretty tough, aincha?...W-well, I pla-planned on that…!”
Boo: “Enough already. You’re weak. This isn’t any fun, so I’ll kill you.”

This shows Boo wasn't thinking about absorbing him. He didn't even know Gotenks's existence was limited at the time, so he really was getting legitimately thrown around by Gotenks. That means he was a threat.

 

[Eu sou Perfeito]