New Freeza saga power levels

[ahill1]

Due to the Piccolo and Vegeta's react to Freeza's final transformation I'd think it should be an even bigger of a boost than 1st form to 2nd form. Vegeta, for instance, saw how much Freeza's 1st transformation boost was, yet was pretty shocked when he saw Freeza's final form, sweating and with 2 exclamations signals on his head, clearly indicating surprise.

2nd form Freeza 1,060,000
~power up 1,300,000
~full power 1,600,000

Piccolo (weighted) 1,350,000
~w/o weights 1,700,000

Freeza (3rd form) 2,250,000

Vegeta (Zenkai) 6,000,000


Freeza final form (initial) 6,750,000

Goku base (warming up) 9,400,000

Freeza final form (speed increase/warming up) 10,000,000

Goku base (full power) 12,000,000

Freeza (without hands) 13,500,000

@p123, @SuperSaiyan2, @Private Ryan, What do you guys think?

 

[withheldforprivacy]

Too much haxing between 3rd Form and Initial Final Form.

 

[ahill1]

I literally explained why I did so.

 

[Future Warrior]

Gr8 list. There is not much I'm iffy about besides maybe the gap between No hand Freeza and Goku, I think it should be a little lower.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

I literally explained why I did so.

All they knew was Freeza's power greatly increased every time he transformed.

 

[Void]

Not enough bloat.

 

[SSJ2]

I can barely read right now but it looks fine to me. It does look unnecessarily bloated to me, and Vegeta's surprise could be due to the fact that Freeza was so many dimensions above them at that point.

 

[p123]

Agreed with SSJ2 here, the exclamation doesn't mean he is comparing transformations, it is probably due to the current status quo. Although, this would be a great time to compare their reactions to all of Freeza's power ups and transformations. AHill, you are tasked with the job. Show us all how they react to each stage of Freeza and let's compare... Here's what I would have it as right now...

Freeza ( 1st Form ) 530,000
~ 2nd Form Initial 1,060,000
~ 2nd Form Powered Up 1,300,000
~ 2nd Form Full Power 1,600,000

Piccolo~ Weighted 1,350,000
~ W/W 1,700,000


These numbers, should be canon imo. They don't get any better than this...

Now for some of the other stuff. I've always preferred 3rd Form Freeza at 70% gap. He seems right in between that Goku vs Vegeta / Reecome vs Vegeta gap and the God tier Gap that Goku had on Ginyu Force. Imo. I think he warrants more than 75%, but I could be wrong.

Also I like how the numbers fit with Freeza at 2.4 mill, his previous power is exactly 66% of his new power, which signifies a major jump and looks nice, 2nd is 2/3 or 3rd, how beautiful eh? And I like Piccolo being ~71% of Freeza opposed to nearly 76% you have...


Let's go over these first before we move on. Also, let's address Initial 1st Form Freeza. Do we think he is 440k or so?

 

[ahill1]

At 2nd form Freeza

At 3rd form

At final form

And well, Vegeta wasn't too far off from initial true form Freeza. Only when Freeza increased his speed did he admit how outclassed he was. The way Piccolo talks make it seem Freeza's final form surpassed all his expectations.

 

[p123]

Yea I would say 3rd Form is definitely the smallest. The other two aren't necessarily huge, it's just there relative power in comparison to him. I think Final Form should be quite large, but not to the extent you are pushing. I think 2x is enough.

I think I have it something like this...

Initial 1st Form is probably like 75-80% of his full power...
2nd Form ( Initial ) is double his 1st Form ( FP )
2nd Form Initial is 80% of 2nd Form Powered Up.
2nd Form Powered up is 80% of 2nd Form Full Power.
2nd Form FP is 66% of 3rd Form
Initial Final Form is double 3rd form.

I have to play with the last one a little, but that feels good enough.

 

[ahill1]

Well, Vegeta didn't expect Freeza was hiding even more power past to this point. If 1st form to 2nd form full power is ~3x, I'd like to have 3rd form to final form (initial) at least 3x in order for Vegeta not to think he was hiding even more power. 3rd form ~ final form (initial) was supposed to be the most dramatic power up imo.

 

[p123]

3rd to Final was more dramatic from Initial to 50%. Are we going to say that 3rd to Final should be 10x now because of that?

I just don't see any reason it needs to be more than double. Double will suffice.

 

[ahill1]

Double before or after increasing his speed against Vegeta?

 

[p123]

Before of course.

 

[ahill1]

What about 3rd form Freeza? Does 2,250,000 sound good?

 

[SSJ2]

I'd honestly want it a little higher, like 2.35 million due to the amount of damage Freeza's little barrage did to Piccolo.

 

[ahill1]

2,400,000 seems too high for me. That's where I used to have post Zenkai Vegeta.

 

[p123]

Personally I prefer 3rd Form at 2,400,000. If Piccolo is 1.7 mil then he is 75.5% of a 2.25 Freeza and 70.8% of a 2.4 Freeza. I think that the gap is probably 70 and not 75 here.

I also like the large boost for the actual transformation itself. If Freeza is 1.6 mil, he is 71% of his 3rd form opposed to being 66% of his 3rd form at 2.4.

Minor, minor issues here, but I feel more comfortable with 2.4 compared to 2.25.

Yea, the general consensus I've seen from top guys is that KKx3 Goku vs Vegeta and Reecome vs Vegeta is not quite as dominant as 3rd Form Freeza vs Piccolo. I think this is a wise decision.


2.4 million Vegeta is horrible nerfing caused by the 3 million Base Goku fallacy.

Vegeta in all likelihood is most likely somewhere in the 4 million range.

 

[ahill1]

2,400,000 for Vegeta sounded so good and clean.

How strong would base Goku be, P?

 

[p123]

It is factually incorrect though. Vegeta is nearly on par with Final Form Freeza's initial power, which towers above 3rd Form Freeza. If Vegeta was only a bit stronger than 3rd Form Freeza, what was the point of this MASSIVE transformation. It's a huge boost in power, at minimum, much larger than 2nd to 3rd. Vegeta being that low is just false. I don't see how Vegeta is anything lower than 4 million personally.

I'm still working on the Initial True Form Freeza to Full Power Initial True Form Freeza, but I think Vegeta is probably somewhere in the 4-5 million range while Goku is probably in the 7 million range or so.