Part 1 battle powers

[Power Level Guy]

Goku could draw the full Oozaru's power when using the fist... Making it a total 10x gap over his previous self. It's not like 10x boost firstly and 10x boost later.

You lost me here. Are you agreeing it is a 10x boost against King Piccolo now?

 

[ahill1]

You lost me here. Are you agreeing it is a 10x boost against King Piccolo now?

10 boost fully on when the Oozaru fist was used. Before, like a 7.5x boost, maybe... With the Oozaru fist making Goku capable of assessing the 10x boost, i.e, all the Oozaru's latent potential he got from the water.

Also, the concept he got exactly a 10x boost because of the Oozaru mountage post waking up from agonizing from the water effects seemed always kinda a not so necessary thing to me. Oozaru is a multiplier... So if Goku got that latent Oozaru boost, and looked at the moon, would he still get a 10x boost despite having that latent power unlocked into him? It may be a way to show the Oozaru (reflective of Goku's Saiyans nature), so the Saiyan side of Goku (still not thought) was getting a presence there in a way it represented the depth of what Goku had hidden inside him, not in a literal 10x way, more like in a figurative of his Saiyan side showing the hidden power Goku could get out of himself based on his current conditions there. More like, this side making a stronger presence rather than necessarily being fully there in terms of power increase.

Looking mainly at the time only, I doubt Toriyama had thought of anything in regards to a 10x multiplier for the Oozaru as the Saiyan concept wasn't even a thing. Oozaru was later given as a multiplication, but considering until then it seemed to represent more like a monkey thing innate form Goku, the "king of monkeys", that "wild, monkey, unhinged power", it seems more like Oozaru was set there as a plateau covered by Goku's innate power being all unleashed rather than a multiplication thing, which wouldn't really be a hidden power imo, as multiplication would be tied on their base state and then growing alongside the power they got... Which is why I think looking it as a multiplication kinda makes it lose the essence of a hidden power assessed there.

 

[SSJ2]

Man, I wish that shindenforums was still available in archive form. It wasn’t around for all that long but I remember having many great part 1 discussions with P on there. I think that was all the way back in 2013. Time really flies.

Very annoying that this is the only surviving page of that site. All the more reason why I don't like platforms such as Discord or reddit. Things are usually lost into the void there.

Shinden Forums

A general anime discussion forums. We have many forums on any things, such as Dragonball z , Naruto and Pokemon. We also have a general discussion area!

web.archive.org

@Warmmedown I see an appearance from suckas on there

 

[Power Level Guy]

@ahill1

Goku got an omega zenkai and gained 10x the power from his previous power to his suppressed power he initially showcases against King Piccolo. Then we learn he was holding back tremendously.

Then he uses a 10x boost on top of all of that for the Oozaru Fist.

The 10x boost for Oozaru is retroactively applied.

 

[ahill1]

@ahill1

Goku got an omega zenkai and gained 10x the power from his previous power to his suppressed power he initially showcases against King Piccolo. Then we learn he was holding back tremendously.

Then he uses a 10x boost on top of all of that for the Oozaru Fist.

The 10x boost for Oozaru is retroactively applied.

Or he got nearly the 10x boost and got it all when using the Oozaru fist, which is he drawing out the full 10x boost.

Again, would Kami think it'd be best having the moon back than Goku getting a 10x boost vs Piccolo Junior in their upcoming battle?

And also, the word used by Piccolo Junior in comparison to his father is a common word in Japanese to imply a 3~6x increase, never something as high or higher than 10x, as DragonEmperor previously stated in that thread about Nail talking about Piccolo's increase when merging with him, and Piccolo Junior used the exact same word in Japanese here, when I looked to the Japanese manga... The word 数倍(Sūbai). You haven't acknowledged those two contradicting points.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Or he got nearly the 10x boost and got it all when using the Oozaru fist, which is he drawing out the full 10x boost.

Plausible.

The first one being the awakening of the power, the second one showcasing the full extent of the power...

Again, would Kami think it'd be best having the moon back than Goku getting a 10x boost vs Piccolo Junior in their upcoming battle?

This is probably as good of justification against Oozaru Fist. Logically a 10x boost would come in awfully handy... Hmm, ok, I'm starting to reconsider...

And also, the word used by Piccolo Junior in comparison to his father is a common word in Japanese to imply a 3~6x increase, never something as high or higher than 10x, as DragonEmperor previously stated in that thread about Nail talking about Piccolo's increase when merging with him, and Piccolo Junior used the exact same word in Japanese here, when I looked to the Japanese manga... The word 数倍(Sūbai). You haven't acknowledged those two contradicting points.

Where is the statement from? It's in the manga? Can you show me the quotes?

Do you think Nail merged with Piccolo can finger flick pre Nail Piccolo?

 

[ahill1]

Piccolo Junior when talking about his power up compared to before:



The statement is pretty much "you can't win!! I've leveled up several times compared to our battle 3 years ago!!". The word Piccolo uses to describe the "many times" power up is "数倍" (sūbai).

When Nail talks about the power up Piccolo will obtain by merging with him, he also used the same term to explain the magnitude of the power up:



Nail stated Piccolo's power will become several times greater, also using the term 数倍...

In a thread about Piccolo pre Nail, DragonEmperor stated this term is commonly used in Japan and in stories to imply a power up within 3~6x and almost never a power up as high as 10x... Which also aligned with EML giving Piccolo a 5x boost post Nail.

Piccolo (Freeza saga pre Nail) vs Captain Ginyu - Dragon Ball

Piccolo is at his power he had on Namek before he merged with Nail. I think we all know Piccolo alone would get trashed by

www.neoseeker.com

DE:

And lastly, the word 数倍(すうばい)=Suubai is used when Nail explains the Namekian fusion power.
This term is generally used for multiplications of 3 times to at the very most 6 times.
Scaling from 2nd form Freeza, we can make lowball-high ball estimates to identify how strong Piccolo was premerger w/Nail. Many fold and several times should still use the same kanji, I have the manga on hand it’s 数倍.
Nothing less than 3x, and nothing more than 6 times.

This is interesting since Legendario claims that the Namekian fusion is 5x, which is within the parameters that the original Japanese quote suggests.

If it were 10x or under 20x the correct wording would be
十数倍.
Anything over 20x and under 100x would be 数十倍.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

This seals the deal. Piccolo Jr can’t be 10x his father.

 

[Power Level Guy]

How many times is this specific term used in the manga? Is this the only two times, or is it used elsewhere?

So this isn't essentially a "many times stronger" statement, this is a more specific statement here.

What does King Piccolo say about his power of his youth being restored?

 

[ahill1]

Really tough to know as we haven't read the manga in Japanese lol. But looking at the many times and several times statements in the Strength Checker, these two come to mind:

Chapter: 366 (DBZ 172), P9.4
Trunks: “It-it’s hot…The air is thin too…And gravity is many times greater…”

Chapter: 482 (DBZ 288), P9.3-8
Context: Piccolo finally catches up to Gotenks
Gotenks: “You’re slow. So you finally got here? Besides circling around the Earth several times, I even took a little afternoon nap. [ ] Fuffuffuh…So you can’t tell just from my speed just now? My super-duper incredible power…! …Which is to say that the test is over, and I’m going to go take care of that annoying Majin Boo right away”

I can't be assed rn to look into the raw scans what word was used here for both instances. The gravity is 10x and Trunks said it's many times greater... Though even if the word Sūbai was used, which I don't know and don't think it was, it may just be Trunks doing a rough guess.

Gotenks from what I could count, circled the Earth 4 or 5x and I think the word Sūbai would fit here as Herms translated that as "several". The other statements with many or several in the strength checker are ones we can't quantify the gap, and there isn't a "many times" or "several times" statement in the strength checker at least, when Piccolo talks about his power post youth recovered. If anyone hasn't until a few hours, I'll look into the raw scans later, but we can only know the instances it was likely used looking at the strength checker as a basis for which instances this word was likely there, otherwise no one but those who understand JP can read all the manga to check that and even those who know wouldn't read looking for the word Sūbai unless there's a transcription of every dialogue from the manga and you can just click "find in the page" lulz. But just knowing what connotations the word have in Japan from a native member should be already enough imo.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Yeah, I think if you want to see this through, you have to confirm this word is used correctly every time. I doubt it is.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I vaguely remember someone posting about this on Neo. I think Karin’s “many times” is the same.

Wonder if Kaio also uses that to describe Kaio-Ken?

 

[Papasmurf]

Goku is the one who says his power increases multiple times when using Kaio-ken:

http://comic.dragonballcn.com/list/0.Dragon_Ball-buyao_daolian_ya/0.jp_Kanzenban/DRAGONBALLvol16/035-dbvmP.jpg

 

[Power Level Guy]

Yeah, but we are looking for the exact Japanese term here.

I think this Shuiba thing essentially means "several".

 

[Papasmurf]

It's really a term used for a multiplication higher than 2 but still within single digits. I'd think it's under 8 or 9 times seeing as 8-9x would likely just be rounded up to "nearly 10 times"

 

[Power Level Guy]

Yeah, that's how we use several. Several is generally more than 3, less than 10.

 

[ahill1]

Yeah, that's how we use several. Several is generally more than 3, less than 10.

Yeah DE confirmed it rarely conveys a more than 6x increase and never a 10x or more than 10x one, with different words being used for those cases.

So Piccolo is within the 6x range of his father... No way for Popo to be 10x Goku.

 

[Power Level Guy]

So Piccolo is within the 6x range of his father... No way for Popo to be 10x Goku.

Still might not be the case. As Oozaru is a 10x boost, it might end up contradicting things.

If Oozaru Fist is the full power of an Oozaru, this would retroactively disregard Piccolo's comment.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

But where is it said Oozaru Fist is the FP of Oozaru?

 

[Power Level Guy]

But where is it said Oozaru Fist is the FP of Oozaru?

How big of a boost did you give Goku after the super sacred water?