Pre enraged BoG SSJ2 Vegeta vs Fat Buu

[Natasha Romanoff]

You have a hard time accepting facts.

- A punishment does not inherently refer to fighting. Fact.
- Vegeta wanted to avoid fighting and only engaged in combat due to Earth being at risk. Fact.
- Power-wise, pre-enraged Vegeta did nothing significant in the plot. Fact.

You need a dose of rationality for a change. Take it or leave it.

Saiyans operate differently and are accustomed to solve things into punches- Fact
Buu wouldn't understand Vegeta in a good manner since he is in bad mood- Fact
Vegeta doesn't hold that good of a relationship with Buu to make him razionalize things- Fact
Vegeta wanted to avoid fighting Beerus- Fact
Vegeta was in disposal to take on Buu as he told him to Beerus- Fact
Vegeta knows how strong Buu is and is still claims to be able to punish him - Fact

So, what if he didn't do anything? Vegeta never do anything being Pre Majin, yet he was sure on taking on Dabura. Shin never proved to be able to oneshot Freeza or defeat easily a Freeza tier character, yet he can. Where are you wanting to go with that?

Didn't claim that Buu vs Buu was an even fight, just that he put up a fight. Goku acknowledged that they would have been finished without him - referring to that very fight. This is not my opinion; it's what the source material itself contains. How about you address the bigger point, which is that your scaling suggests that Vegeta would have a tough time trying to discipline Buu via battle. Not surprising that you chose not to address that here.

Yes, because Buu distracted him and keep him busy, Buu would've easily killed him in the first part of the fight had he not have regeneration, though.

So? Vegeta would still defeat him eventually, it would take him time, but he would eventually do it.

 

[Spiral-Force]

Saiyans operate differently and are accustomed to solve things into punches- Fact

Yet, Vegeta opted to dance and cook before letting his fists fly. Beerus even called him a coward.

Buu wouldn't understand Vegeta in a good manner since he is in bad mood- Fact

This doesn't matter because Vegeta couldn't stop chaos from ensuing either way.

Vegeta doesn't hold that good of a relationship with Buu to make him razionalize things- Fact

He was screwed either way because Beerus was angry at that point. They were at Bulma's party; surely a verbal exchange would be better than super-powered beings getting into a fight.

Vegeta wanted to avoid fighting Beerus- Fact

Which means he didn't want to solve things with punches. You blundered your own argument.

Vegeta was in disposal to take on Buu as he told him to Beerus- Fact

False. That's your personal spin on what he said.

Vegeta knows how strong Buu is and is still claims to be able to punish him - Fact

Yet nothing came of it. Beerus was irritated by him, and his power was inconsequential in the situation.

So, what if he didn't do anything? Vegeta never do anything being Pre Majin, yet he was sure on taking on Dabura. Shin never proved to be able to oneshot Freeza or defeat easily a Freeza tier character, yet he can. Where are you wanting to go with that?

This isn't relevant because Vegeta didn't tell Beerus that he would fight Buu.

Yes, because Buu distracted him and keep him busy, Buu would've easily killed him in the first part of the fight had he not have regeneration, though.

Regeneration is part of Buu's being. You're trying to diminish what he did just to serve your bias.

So? Vegeta would still defeat him eventually, it would take him time, but he would eventually do it.

This wouldn't be desirable given the context. It'd potentially ruin the party, and Beerus was already fed up at that point.

Are you able to admit that your scaling is purely your opinion? You may have the urge to sweep this question under the rug, but just be honest.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

Yet, Vegeta opted to dance and cook before letting his fists fly. Beerus even called him a coward.

Yet, Beerus is not Buu, don't know how this correlates to anything.

This doesn't matter because Vegeta couldn't stop chaos from ensuing either way.

Vegeta was the most distant to everyone and Beerus wanted to eat pudding but Buu denied him and proceeds to get into a fight.

He was screwed either way because Beerus was angry at that point. They were at Bulma's party; surely a verbal exchange would be better than super-powered beings getting into a fight.

Even if you want to go to the words fight, that would also cause a fight due to the lack of patience Buu had at the time and that Vegeta lacks of it.

Which means he didn't want to solve things with punches. You blundered your own argument.

Beerus is not Buu, and is in disposal to fight him as he himself said.

False. That's your personal spin on what he said.

Vegeta said that he would punish him but changed of attitude when Beerus told him that he is disturbing.

Yet nothing came of it. Beerus was irritated by him, and his power was inconsequential in the situation.

He was just in his base form and only after everyone was beaten he transformed into a SSJ2, how is that significant?

Considering that Beerus considered that a suppressed base Goku can't defeat Freeza but while watching his movements as SSJ concluded that he could, then the same should apply to Vegeta.

This isn't relevant because Vegeta didn't tell Beerus that he would fight Buu.

Punish = resolving things with punches as Vegeta himself said that's the way to operate by saiyans.

Regeneration is part of Buu's being. You're trying to diminish what he did just to serve your bias.

Regeneration didn't save the other Buus to be stomped in a fight. As well as didn't save Buu from Beerus himself.

This wouldn't be desirable given the context. It'd potentially ruin the party, and Beerus was already fed up at that point.

Or Beerus would simply get boring by himself and would eventually gone. As he isn't interested on that and just cares about pudding.

Are you able to admit that your scaling is purely your opinion? You may have the urge to sweep this question under the rug, but just be honest.

Considering that there are logical assumptions given the things, is pretty much how things are a and the questions can be made about it are simply nonsensical.

 

[Spiral-Force]

Yet, Beerus is not Buu, don't know how this correlates to anything.

So you pick and choose who the statement applies to? You're constantly moving the goal posts.

Vegeta was the most distant to everyone and Beerus wanted to eat pudding but Buu denied him and proceeds to get into a fight.

Even if you want to go to the words fight, that would also cause a fight due to the lack of patience Buu had at the time and that Vegeta lacks of it.

The only thing to take-away from this is that Vegeta was in a tough spot no matter what he did. That doesn't mean it can't be concluded that talking would be less disruptive than fighting.

Beerus is not Buu, and is in disposal to fight him as he himself said.

Vegeta said that he would punish him but changed of attitude when Beerus told him that he is disturbing.

Are you hallucinating? Vegeta didn't say he would fight Buu.

He was just in his base form and only after everyone was beaten he transformed into a SSJ2, how is that significant?

Considering that Beerus considered that a suppressed base Goku can't defeat Freeza but while watching his movements as SSJ concluded that he could, then the same should apply to Vegeta.

Strawman. Who said it's significant? Vegeta's power was insignificant. You've become too accustomed to bringing up irrelevant things. Stay focused on the argument in front of you.

Punish = resolving things with punches as Vegeta himself said that's the way to operate by saiyans.

No, you can't just redefine a word.

Regeneration didn't save the other Buus to be stomped in a fight. As well as didn't save Buu from Beerus himself.

Shortly after the Beerus fight, Buu looked like he was in perfect condition. Unless a stronger opponent is willing to vaporise him completely, then they'd make no progress.

Or Beerus would simply get boring by himself and would eventually gone. As he isn't interested on that and just cares about pudding.

Beerus was aggravated by then. If he were to leave at that point, he wouldn't do so without turning the Earth to dust.

Considering that there are logical assumptions given the things, is pretty much how things are a and the questions can be made about it are simply nonsensical.

You are making assumptions, but they aren't logical. You built your argument based on how you feel, while I'm going by what the story illustrates. For someone so wrapped up in their headcanon, of course you'd think an objective view is 'nonsensical'.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

So you pick and choose who the statement applies to? You're constantly moving the goal posts.

It's not matter of moving goalposts, but how Vegeta conducts with Buu but how he conducts with Beerus that makes it different.

Does Vegeta fears Buu? No
Does Vegeta fears Beerus? Yes

The only thing to take-away from this is that Vegeta was in a tough spot no matter what he did. That doesn't mean it can't be concluded that talking would be less disruptive than fighting.

Are you hallucinating? Vegeta didn't say he would fight Buu.

How is your analogy even logical judging by regular standards? Why Vegeta would behave equally with both if he has absolute respect for one and the other one not?

You are not even being logical, Buu and Vegeta even if they go by heated words discussion, that'd also conduct them to fight.

Vegeta is angry and Buu is someone who is not thinking correctly and letting himself get by his impulses.

Person A: "Vegeta said that he would punish Buu."

Person B: "A punish doesn't have to do with violence and it can also be of words."

Person A: "Hey! But saiyans resolve things by their punches and that's also what Vegeta himself said."

Person B: "No, they would discuss."

Person A: "But an heated exchange of words would also conduct to fists."

This is basically resulting the cycle of yourself denying things.

Strawman. Who said it's significant? Vegeta's power was insignificant. You've become too accustomed to bringing up irrelevant things. Stay focused on the argument in front of you.

Then, you are admitting your argument doesn't produce anything or make progress the debate?

Beerus can't sense hidden power, so him thinking Vegeta is insignificant in power (which he never said) would be equally irrelevant.

How you denying it help your argument?

No, you can't just redefine a word.

An even then, would eventually lose themselves and get involved into a fight.

I just adapt it to Vegeta's way of thinking. Of course, saiyans thinks and operate differently than normally.

Shortly after the Beerus fight, Buu looked like he was in perfect condition. Unless a stronger opponent is willing to vaporise him completely, then they'd make no progress.

Buu was with scratches and looked bad at the time Beerus was fighting SSj God Goku, so no.

Beerus was aggravated by then. If he were to leave at that point, he wouldn't do so without turning the Earth to dust.

Was Vegeta thinking on that, though? He was just thinking in making Beerus get calmed.

You are making assumptions, but they aren't logical. You built your argument based on how you feel, while I'm going by what the story illustrates. For someone so wrapped up in their headcanon, of course you'd think an objective view is 'nonsensical'.

Which has many things that enter in conflict one thing to the other, and as well as it resolves (at large stretch) to the same route I'm saying how things got produced.

 

[Spiral-Force]

It's not matter of moving goalposts, but how Vegeta conducts with Buu but how he conducts with Beerus that makes it different.

Does Vegeta fears Buu? No
Does Vegeta fears Beerus? Yes

How is your analogy even logical judging by regular standards? Why Vegeta would behave equally with both if he has absolute respect for one and the other one not?

When was fear factored into Vegeta's statement? You're making rules as you go along. No reason for your input to be considered when there's no substance behind it.

You are not even being logical, Buu and Vegeta even if they go by heated words discussion, that'd also conduct them to fight.

Vegeta is angry and Buu is someone who is not thinking correctly and letting himself get by his impulses.

Person A: "Vegeta said that he would punish Buu."

Person B: "A punish doesn't have to do with violence and it can also be of words."

Person A: "Hey! But saiyans resolve things by their punches and that's also what Vegeta himself said."

Person B: "No, they would discuss."

Person A: "But an heated exchange of words would also conduct to fists."

This is basically resulting the cycle of yourself denying things.

Then, you are admitting your argument doesn't produce anything or make progress the debate?

Beerus can't sense hidden power, so him thinking Vegeta is insignificant in power (which he never said) would be equally irrelevant.

How you denying it help your argument?

An even then, would eventually lose themselves and get involved into a fight.

I just adapt it to Vegeta's way of thinking. Of course, saiyans thinks and operate differently than normally.

You're not thinking of the scene on a macro level. Fighting is a no-no in a civilised setting, and Vegeta seemed adamant about not going berserk. Just because he's a fighter doesn't mean he's incapable of reading a situation and acting accordingly. And just because a fight eventually broke out doesn't change the context that's being analysed here.

Beerus said normal ki has no effect on godly ki. Now, before you jump onto any little thing, relax and concentrate on the actual point: which is, that pre-enraged Vegeta isn't even worth scaling since, like everyone else, all he did was look powerless.

Buu was with scratches and looked bad at the time Beerus was fighting SSj God Goku, so no.

Cosmetic 'damage' is meaningless to his well-being. But of course, you can't help but be contrarian about everything so you steer to minor things yet still fail.

Was Vegeta thinking on that, though? He was just thinking in making Beerus get calmed.

Given that monitoring Beerus' mood was the whole point, it's a no-brainer that this would cross his mind.

Which has many things that enter in conflict one thing to the other, and as well as it resolves (at large stretch) to the same route I'm saying how things got produced.

I haven't said anything that conflicts with the story. You appear to have an issue with admitting that you're just offering your opinion and nothing more. You're not the first or last Dragon Ball fan to do this, but that's clearly what's going on here. Being a hardcore enthusiast of a series doesn't mean that you're prepared for debate. Debating, in and of itself, is a serious discipline. And you seem to struggle with even basic principles.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

When was fear factored into Vegeta's statement? You're making rules as you go along. No reason for your input to be considered when there's no substance behind it.

Your issue here still remains on the same cycle; if Vegeta fears Beerus, then he will not try to attack him as opposed to himself offering to punish Buu?

You're not thinking of the scene on a macro level. Fighting is a no-no in a civilised setting, and Vegeta seemed adamant about not going berserk. Just because he's a fighter doesn't mean he's incapable of reading a situation and acting accordingly. And just because a fight eventually broke out doesn't change the context that's being analysed here.

Well, killing an octopus also is uncivil, yet he did it when Trunks used his pistol of water unintentionally against Beerus to try to consol him, who are we to judge what Vegeta is up to and what he is not?

Beerus said normal ki has no effect on godly ki. Now, before you jump onto any little thing, relax and concentrate on the actual point: which is, that pre-enraged Vegeta isn't even worth scaling since, like everyone else, all he did was look powerless.

What are you wanting to get with that? You'll have to answer that and how this have to do with anything.

Yes, he is irrelevant compared to SSJ3 Goku even as a SSJ2, even more to Beerus. By that logic, his pre majin self is worthless to scale even though he has direct statements that place him over Dabura and Gohan, but weaker than Goku. Shin never proved to oneshot a Freeza tier character, therefore, he is irrelevant scalling-wise. You are not making any sense.

Cosmetic 'damage' is meaningless to his well-being. But of course, you can't help but be contrarian about everything so you steer to minor things yet still fail.

Ah yes, the body of Buu produced all of those wounds and scratches, is not Beerus attacking him continuously. Did Super Buu had cosmetic damage against Gohan or Gotenks even though did in fact visibly affect him, but afterwards could regenerate as if nothing?

Given that monitoring Beerus' mood was the whole point, it's a no-brainer that this would cross his mind.

Apparently he was a non-brainer because he thought he could console him and convince him to leave.

I haven't said anything that conflicts with the story. You appear to have an issue with admitting that you're just offering your opinion and nothing more. You're not the first or last Dragon Ball fan to do this, but that's clearly what's going on here. Being a hardcore enthusiast of a series doesn't mean that you're prepared for debate. Debating, in and of itself, is a serious discipline. And you seem to struggle with even basic principles.

All the questions you have offered has basically lead to an issue to your argument itself and that's not my fault. As well as one alternative leads to my main point one way or another. You're not making any sense on this.

 

[Spiral-Force]

Your issue here still remains on the same cycle; if Vegeta fears Beerus, then he will not try to attack him as opposed to himself offering to punish Buu?

Vegeta makes no mention of fear in his statement. Keep your headcanon out of this; it holds no value.

What Vegeta said was a generality at most, because he doesn't always try to fight, which the scene thoroughly exemplifies.

Well, killing an octopus also is uncivil, yet he did it when Trunks used his pistol of water unintentionally against Beerus to try to consol him, who are we to judge what Vegeta is up to and what he is not?

It's important to distinguish between intention and desperation.

Vegeta intended for things to remain civil, but in moments where Beerus is on the brink of carrying out destruction, that's when desperation kicks in and Vegeta is willing to do whatever it takes to stop the planet from going BOOM.

What are you wanting to get with that? You'll have to answer that and how this have to do with anything.

Yes, he is irrelevant compared to SSJ3 Goku even as a SSJ2, even more to Beerus. By that logic, his pre majin self is worthless to scale even though he has direct statements that place him over Dabura and Gohan, but weaker than Goku. Shin never proved to oneshot a Freeza tier character, therefore, he is irrelevant scalling-wise. You are not making any sense.

There's no direct statement for scaling pre-enraged Vegeta to Buu, so this is a dead talking point.

Ah yes, the body of Buu produced all of those wounds and scratches, is not Beerus attacking him continuously. Did Super Buu had cosmetic damage against Gohan or Gotenks even though did in fact visibly affect him, but afterwards could regenerate as if nothing?

Actually, Super Buu did have cosmetic damage from both Gohan and Gotenks. Not that it means anything since it fades away from the Buus. Nit-picking on the duration that it stays for is so petty and worthless.

Apparently he was a non-brainer because he thought he could console him and convince him to leave.

If this is an attempt to sound clever, then you backfired. How does this counter my point about Beerus' mood obviously being on Vegeta's mind?

All the questions you have offered has basically lead to an issue to your argument itself and that's not my fault. As well as one alternative leads to my main point one way or another. You're not making any sense on this.

Any examples? Name one 'issue' that I've caused.

Being sceptical of a position that lacks evidence or consistency is very sensible.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

Vegeta makes no mention of fear in his statement. Keep your headcanon out of this; it holds no value.

What Vegeta said was generality at most, because he doesn't always try to fight, which the scene throughly exemplifies.

So, we know depend on a statement of a character that has to be said about being with fear? Isn't it the obvious expressions and actions speaking for itself? When a character is visibly angry, but doesn't state it it isn't angry?

It's important to distinguish between intention and desperation.

Vegeta intended for things to remain civil, but in moments where Beerus is on the brink of carrying out destruction, that's when desperation kicks in and Vegeta is willing to do whatever it takes to stop the planet from going BOOM.

So, Vegeta isn't desperate when Beerus isn't in bad mood because you select the instances in which he is and when he is not?

Trunks used the pistol of water on Beerus - he killed an octopus to console Beerus
Buu was selfish and didn't want to share his pudding for him - he is planning to have a discussion

You're not even being logical in your decissions. In either situation and specially the second one, Beerus was about to blow up Earth.

There's no direct statement for scaling pre-enraged Vegeta to Buu, so this is a dead talking point.

Him considering he could take care of Buu? Also, why would Vegeta try to fight Beerus after everyone was done in SSJ2 if he considers himself weaker?

Actually, Super Buu did have cosmetic damage from both Gohan and Gotenks. Not that it means anything since it fades away from the Buus. Nit-picking on the duration that it stays for is so petty and worthless.

Buu was clearly scratched, yet you reduced it to "cosmetic damage" for no reason. If Buu would have received cosmetic damage, he wouldn't have regenerated for either situation. Do you even know in DB how long last time? Or go by the minutes and seconds every fight get produced?

If this is an attempt to sound clever, then you backfired. How does this counter my point about Beerus' mood obviously being on Vegeta's mind?

Beerus' mod was obviously in Vegeta's mind, but he was up to do everything to try to not go to a worse situation. Beerus doesn't care about Buu, Vegeta doesn't care about Buu, therefore the fight would get produced had Beerus not told him to go and that he is disturbing.

Any examples? Name one 'issue' that I've caused.

Being sceptical of a position that lacks evidence or consistency is very sensible.

Do you realize that every argument you have purposed up to now leads to the same way?

"Vegeta didn't say he would fight Buu"
"Vegeta would teach him lessons by talking and Buu would obbey him"
"Vegeta makes no statement of fear"

Do you even read yourself or you write too fast that doesn't actually read it or do the task??

 

[Spiral-Force]

So, we know depend on a statement of a character that has to be said about being with fear? Isn't it the obvious expressions and actions speaking for itself? When a character is visibly angry, but doesn't state it it isn't angry?

You brought up Vegeta saying Saiyans solve problems with their fists.

The counter-argument to that is that, evidently, that isn't always the case. Hence why Vegeta did a lot of talking and only fought as a last resort.

You're focusing too much on speculation of WHY, instead of the FACT itself, which is that Vegeta is speaking in general. That fact leads to the conclusion that there is room for scenarios where Vegeta doesn't initially decide to fight.

Getting into the WHY is a grey area because you're not Vegeta. On top of that, you can still get your ass whooped even if you have no fear.

So, Vegeta isn't desperate when Beerus isn't in bad mood because you select the instances in which he is and when he is not?

Trunks used the pistol of water on Beerus - he killed an octopus to console Beerus
Buu was selfish and didn't want to share his pudding for him - he is planning to have a discussion

You're not even being logical in your decissions. In either situation and specially the second one, Beerus was about to blow up Earth.

Him considering he could take care of Buu? Also, why would Vegeta try to fight Beerus after everyone was done in SSJ2 if he considers himself weaker?

You say I'm not being logical, yet you haven't pinpointed what's wrong. Where's the inconsistency?

Buu was clearly scratched, yet you reduced it to "cosmetic damage" for no reason. If Buu would have received cosmetic damage, he wouldn't have regenerated for either situation. Do you even know in DB how long last time? Or go by the minutes and seconds every fight get produced?

Why wouldn't he be able to regenerate from cosmetic damage?

Are you now arguing that he was permanently hurt?

Beerus' mod was obviously in Vegeta's mind, but he was up to do everything to try to not go to a worse situation. Beerus doesn't care about Buu, Vegeta doesn't care about Buu, therefore the fight would get produced had Beerus not told him to go and that he is disturbing.

Do you realize that every argument you have purposed up to now leads to the same way?

"Vegeta didn't say he would fight Buu"
"Vegeta would teach him lessons by talking and Buu would obbey him"
"Vegeta makes no statement of fear"

Do you even read yourself or you write too fast that doesn't actually read it or do the task??

It's ironic that you question my reading ability when you're the one that's mistaken; I didn't say Buu would obey him. Also, there's no evidence to conclude that Vegeta would win if they did fight.

Looks like there's a couple of habits that you've been extremely drawn to lately:
- Continuing on with your assumptive thinking
- Acting like my argument is problematic without explaining why

You have no ammo and are just arguing for the sake of arguing.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

You brought up Vegeta saying Saiyans solve problems with their fists.

The counter-argument to that is that, evidently, that isn't always the case. Hence why Vegeta did a lot of talking and only fought as a last resort.

Other than Super Buu or maybe the androids, I don't think your statement can be backed up, and even then, we have situations such as Goku willing to help Gohan against Gotenks Buu, him preparing to take head on against said Buu or him confronting Semi Cell, so I don't think it would be a good case to make considering the lack of evidence your premise have about the saiyans not always willing to fight/confront opponents all the time.

Yes, Vegeta fought as a last resort against Beerus and when he was decided to do so, nothing indicates he wasn't planning to fight Buu, so your premise is again inconclusive.

You're focusing too much on speculation of WHY, instead of the FACT itself, which is that Vegeta is speaking in general. That fact leads to the conclusion that there is room for scenarios where Vegeta doesn't initially decide to fight.

Getting into the WHY is a grey area because you're not Vegeta. On top of that, you can still get your ass whooped even if you have no fear.

You say I'm not being logical, yet you haven't pinpointed what's wrong. Where's the inconsistency?

I don't know, the clear indication is that you think Vegeta wouldn't fight Buu because he was being civil, but his attacks shows himself killing an octopus in front of Buu in an attempt to calm Beerus after Trunks used his pistol of water on him. Likewise, Beerus was angry against Buu due to him being egocentrical and don't want to share his pudding with him.

Either way, you will be sidestepping all of these things and/or trying to make more questions instead of responding it coherently because that's everything you have done up to now. I considered you different, but now insistence is the only thing on your side.

Why wouldn't he be able to regenerate from cosmetic damage?

Are you now arguing that he was permanently hurt?

Of course, Buu can regenerate from cosmetic damage, but Super Buu against Gohan and Gotenks wasn't just damaged in a poor manner, as when Gotenks was about to kill him he had to regenerate quickly, and with Gohan he equally shows signs of pain when he is punching/kicking him.

When it comes to Buu against Beerus even while SSj God Goku was fighting Beerus he still conserve his scratches episodes afterwards than the beginning of the fight.

It's ironic that you question my reading ability when you're the one that's mistaken; I didn't say Buu would obey him. Also, there's no evidence to conclude that Vegeta would win if they did fight.

Looks like there's a couple of habits that you've been extremely drawn to lately:
- Continuing on with your assumptive thinking
- Acting like my argument is problematic without explaining why

You have no ammo and are just arguing for the sake of arguing.

Well, there is, Vegeta knows how strong Good Buu is as he has seen his fight with both Buus (Evil and Kid), in which in the fight with Kid was paying attention, has sensed his ki decreasing and knows his own limitations. So, other thing than you saying that Vegeta would not fight Buu, what other thing you have to offer?

 

[Spiral-Force]

Other than Super Buu or maybe the androids, I don't think your statement can be backed up, and even then, we have situations such as Goku willing to help Gohan against Gotenks Buu, him preparing to take head on against said Buu or him confronting Semi Cell, so I don't think it would be a good case to make considering the lack of evidence your premise have about the saiyans not always willing to fight/confront opponents all the time.

Yes, Vegeta fought as a last resort against Beerus and when he was decided to do so, nothing indicates he wasn't planning to fight Buu, so your premise is again inconclusive.

What's with the "fight/confront" thing? The latter word was not part of my premise. Don't get it twisted.

The Beerus example serves as evidence as to why Vegeta's statement doesn't need to be taken as an absolute. You personally wanting more evidence doesn't change that evidence has already been provided, unless you want to throw your brain out of the window and argue that evidence is not evidence.

Looks like you're not even confident in your premise anymore. You have no proof, so now you cling on to the argument that nothing proves otherwise. It's like saying nothing indicates that there isn't an invisible and intangible leprechaun moving at lightspeed across the planet. There's no reason to prove a negative.

Trying to go toe to toe with me on rhetoric never goes well for you. Why bother?

I don't know, the clear indication is that you think Vegeta wouldn't fight Buu because he was being civil, but his attacks shows himself killing an octopus in front of Buu in an attempt to calm Beerus after Trunks used his pistol of water on him. Likewise, Beerus was angry against Buu due to him being egocentrical and don't want to share his pudding with him.

Either way, you will be sidestepping all of these things and/or trying to make more questions instead of responding it coherently because that's everything you have done up to now. I considered you different, but now insistence is the only thing on your side.

If you can't handle rhetorical questions, then you only have yourself to blame.

The point was that Vegeta intended to be civil, and he was for the most part.

Him killing the octopus was simply a moment of spontaneous desperation. It doesn't define his intent.

Since you keep bringing up the octopus scene, why didn't Vegeta just go at Buu in the same way? He chose words over actions, did he not?

Of course, Buu can regenerate from cosmetic damage, but Super Buu against Gohan and Gotenks wasn't just damaged in a poor manner, as when Gotenks was about to kill him he had to regenerate quickly, and with Gohan he equally shows signs of pain when he is punching/kicking him.

When it comes to Buu against Beerus even while SSj God Goku was fighting Beerus he still conserve his scratches episodes afterwards than the beginning of the fight.

Well, there is, Vegeta knows how strong Good Buu is as he has seen his fight with both Buus (Evil and Kid), in which in the fight with Kid was paying attention, has sensed his ki decreasing and knows his own limitations. So, other thing than you saying that Vegeta would not fight Buu, what other thing you have to offer?

Since you admit that Buu can regenerate from cosmetic damage, there's no need for further specificities. This talking point has ran its course.

The question is, what do YOU have to offer at this point? You're the one that tried to build a Vegeta > Buu narrative while I took the sceptical position due to you lacking evidence. If you still have more to say or want to summarise your final thoughts, then go ahead.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

What's with the "fight/confront" thing? The latter word was not part of my premise. Don't get it twisted.

The Beerus example serves as evidence as to why Vegeta's statement doesn't need to be taken as an absolute. You personally wanting more evidence doesn't change that evidence has already been provided, unless you want to throw your brain out of the window and argue that evidence is not evidence.

Looks like you're not even confident in your premise anymore. You have no proof, so now you cling on to the argument that nothing proves otherwise. It's like saying nothing indicates that there isn't an invisible and intangible leprechaun moving at lightspeed across the planet. There's no reason to prove a negative.

Trying to go toe to toe with me on rhetoric never goes well for you. Why bother?

It's not matter of "wanting more evidence" but that your argument leaves a lot to be desired and that you are basically wanting to change saiyan modus operating in an attempt to justify your position which is inconsistent and one way or another it leads to my premise itself.

If you can't handle rhetorical questions, then you only have yourself to blame.

The point was that Vegeta intended to be civil, and he was for the most part.

Him killing the octopus was simply a moment of spontaneous desperation. It doesn't define his intent.

Since you keep bringing up the octopus scene, why didn't Vegeta just go at Buu in the same way? He chose words over actions, did he not?

Up to now, you have proven that Vegeta doesn't want to fight Beerus, what makes Buu in the same position for Vegeta not wanting to dispatch him or even fight him?

It's because you don't finish to understand (either is denial or simply answering dumb for the sake of keeping arguing) that Vegeta willing TO NOT fight Beerus doesn't equate to Vegeta willing TO NOT fight Buu. Their position is not equivalent in Vegeta's mind, as he doesn't care about Buu, yet he respects absolutely Beerus.

So you select when Vegeta is desperate and when he is not? Interesting take- Vegeta considered that everything was over as soon as Buu fought Beerus and lose, however, Vegeta thought Beerus was in mood to be reasonable and that he would now take care of Buu. Beerus was not available to talk when Trunks accidentally used his pistol of water on him, therefore he have to be direct in one instance and in the other one not.

Since you admit that Buu can regenerate from cosmetic damage, there's no need for further specificities. This talking point has ran its course.

The question is, what do YOU have to offer at this point? You're the one that tried to build a Vegeta > Buu narrative while I took the sceptical position due to you lacking evidence. If you still have more to say or want to summarise your final thoughts, then go ahead.

Let be honest, would you deny the evidence? What exactly makes it so impossible for you to get? Is the saiyan representative modus operandi changing in your position? Vegeta thinking Buu and Beerus are in the same position? If you can answer, I can maybe understand more your position and are not discrepancies to the narrative itself just because.. You expected for him to directly say that he'll fight Buu and that saiyans resolve everything with their fists? Because otherwise, you can't get it?

 

[Spiral-Force]

It's not matter of "wanting more evidence" but that your argument leaves a lot to be desired and that you are basically wanting to change saiyan modus operating in an attempt to justify your position which is inconsistent and one way or another it leads to my premise itself.

Up to now, you have proven that Vegeta doesn't want to fight Beerus, what makes Buu in the same position for Vegeta not wanting to dispatch him or even fight him?

It's because you don't finish to understand (either is denial or simply answering dumb for the sake of keeping arguing) that Vegeta willing TO NOT fight Beerus doesn't equate to Vegeta willing TO NOT fight Buu. Their position is not equivalent in Vegeta's mind, as he doesn't care about Buu, yet he respects absolutely Beerus.

Not trying to change anything. Simply presented evidence to prove my point. Your decision to push a strawman shows you can't counter.

Didn't say that Beerus is equivalent to Buu. He doesn't need to be. When you look at the scene, we saw Vegeta chose words over violence.

If you can't give evidence for Vegeta > Buu, then your premise holds no weight. To be honest, you're getting worse with each response. It's like you've become a caricature of yourself mid-way through.

So you select when Vegeta is desperate and when he is not? Interesting take- Vegeta considered that everything was over as soon as Buu fought Beerus and lose, however, Vegeta thought Beerus was in mood to be reasonable and that he would now take care of Buu. Beerus was not available to talk when Trunks accidentally used his pistol of water on him, therefore he have to be direct in one instance and in the other one not.

Let be honest, would you deny the evidence? What exactly makes it so impossible for you to get? Is the saiyan representative modus operandi changing in your position? Vegeta thinking Buu and Beerus are in the same position? If you can answer, I can maybe understand more your position and are not discrepancies to the narrative itself just because.. You expected for him to directly say that he'll fight Buu and that saiyans resolve everything with their fists? Because otherwise, you can't get it?

It's like you can barely string a sentence together at times. The only thing to extract from this is that Vegeta had to jump through hoops just to keep Beerus' mood in check, yet still got him mad in some instances. What did I say that you have an issue with? Be precise.

Vegeta's statement isn't a 'one size fits all' type of statement when observing the plot being discussed. Just because he has a typical way of doing things doesn't mean it's always done that way. If you want to argue that I'm wrong then that means you think the story is wrong, which makes no sense.

Honestly, what do you hope to accomplish here? You have nothing meaningful to offer in any aspect of argumentation from what I've seen. If this is how you usually argue, then you're in need of some serious reflection.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

Not trying to change anything. Simply presented evidence to prove my point. Your decision to push a strawman shows you can't counter.

Evidence which contradicts the story as a whole and basically intend to perform the task of changing how saiyans operate, how Vegeta himself talks about saiyans and Vegeta being a coward towards Buu or Buu being calm and/or holding a friendship with Vegeta with Buu to work with.

Didn't say that Beerus is equivalent to Buu. He doesn't need to be. When you look at the scene, we saw Vegeta chose words over violence.

And Vegeta still never lose his will to fight and we know that he is up to fight, this is like saying that when Vegeta was about to leave of Super Buu's body he isn't leaving to fight, unless you can prove that Vegeta WILL NOT FIGHT or is thinking of plenty of that (like when he got paralyzed against Freeza and basically lost his will to fight) then we can't move on.

If you can't give evidence for Vegeta > Buu, then your premise holds no weight. To be honest, you're getting worse with each response. It's like you've become a caricature of yourself mid-way through.

It's like you can barely string a sentence together at times. The only thing to extract from this is that Vegeta had to jump through hoops just to keep Beerus' mood in check, yet still got him mad in some instances. What did I say that you have an issue with? Be precise.

I just wanted to know how long you can get with your intellectualy dishonest, but if that is your representation of the things, meh...

And Vegeta have to be blatantly lying to Beerus (if you want to make your notion work), you saying that it'd be a discussion, which would (again) end up in punches is one thing of the many that are inconsistent with you.

Vegeta's statement isn't a 'one size fits all' type of statement when observing the plot being discussed. Just because he has a typical way of doing things doesn't mean it's always done that way. If you want to argue that I'm wrong then that means you think the story is wrong, which makes no sense.

I'm arguing that your point is wrong, no, the story clearly paints that Vegeta would beat up on Buu and that's what his confidence to promise that to Beerus tell us.

Honestly, what do you hope to accomplish here? You have nothing meaningful to offer in any aspect of argumentation from what I've seen. If this is how you usually argue, then you're in need of some serious reflection.

Already responded, but if I have to repeat myself, I want to see how long you can take to your intellectually dishonest and want your lies to work.

 

[Spiral-Force]

Evidence which contradicts the story as a whole and basically intend to perform the task of changing how saiyans operate, how Vegeta himself talks about saiyans and Vegeta being a coward towards Buu or Buu being calm and/or holding a friendship with Vegeta with Buu to work with.

You admit that it's evidence. If you just stopped there, that would've sufficed. Yet you feel the need to give a biased analysis of why you don't like the evidence.

When a scenario occurs that goes against typical behaviour, the scenario itself should be analysed. The scene demonstrates that: when a being comes along that can destroy everything, but that being is nuanced in the sense that he can be swayed from doing that depending on his mood, then Vegeta is willing to put his pride aside and not just fight his way through the issue like a barbarian.

Your surface level thinking has lead you to not think of the significance thoroughly. If a being like this came along again, then we can go off of past evidence as to how Vegeta would behave. There's no need to shy away from accepting this situational aspect of his nature. His general character can still remain while acknowledging this fact.

How Vegeta acts towards Buu and the others is a by-product of Beerus' influence. When identifying the cause of Beerus almost laying Earth to waste, it was fighting. You act like Vegeta deciding to talk rather than fight is bizarre, yet that's what we saw 99% of the time. When the Z Fighters attacked Beerus, Vegeta was on the sidelines telling them to stop instead of physically imposing himself.

And Vegeta still never lose his will to fight and we know that he is up to fight, this is like saying that when Vegeta was about to leave of Super Buu's body he isn't leaving to fight, unless you can prove that Vegeta WILL NOT FIGHT or is thinking of plenty of that (like when he got paralyzed against Freeza and basically lost his will to fight) then we can't move on.


I just wanted to know how long you can get with your intellectualy dishonest, but if that is your representation of the things, meh...

And Vegeta have to be blatantly lying to Beerus (if you want to make your notion work), you saying that it'd be a discussion, which would (again) end up in punches is one thing of the many that are inconsistent with you.

I'm arguing that your point is wrong, no, the story clearly paints that Vegeta would beat up on Buu and that's what his confidence to promise that to Beerus tell us.

So coming to a logical conclusion based on how the storyline operated is being dishonest?

We explicitly saw Vegeta initiate a conversation regarding Buu instead of attacking him. If he went up to Buu to give him a stern verbal warning, Vegeta would just be doing more of what we saw from him all the way through to that point, which is talk.

Could a fight break out as a result of things going sideways between them? Possibly, but this doesn't prove that Vegeta could take Buu in a fight, which is your premise.

Already responded, but if I have to repeat myself, I want to see how long you can take to your intellectually dishonest and want your lies to work.

So using facts and logic equates to dishonesty and lies in your warped mind...

There's two ways this conversation can go from here on out:

1) You continue getting bodied, or:

2) You just admit that you got carried away with speculation and that there is an alternative way of looking at this.

Wouldn't be surprised if you choose number 1.

Don't be ashamed to choose number 2. I won't clown you for it. It would show that you're willing improve yourself instead of being content with mediocrity.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

You admit that it's evidence. If you just stopped there, that would've sufficed. Yet you feel the need to give a biased analysis of why you don't like the evidence.

When a scenario occurs that goes against typical behaviour, the scenario itself should be analysed. The scene demonstrates that: when a being comes along that can destroy everything, but that being is nuanced in the sense that he can be swayed from doing that depending on his mood, then Vegeta is willing to put his pride aside and not just fight his way through the issue like a barbarian.

Your surface level thinking has lead you to not think of the significance thoroughly. If a being like this came along again, then we can go off of past evidence as to how Vegeta would behave. There's no need to shy away from accepting this situational aspect of his nature. His general character can still remain while acknowledging this fact.

How Vegeta acts towards Buu and the others is a by-product of Beerus' influence. When identifying the cause of Beerus almost laying Earth to waste, it was fighting. You act like Vegeta deciding to talk rather than fight is bizarre, yet that's what we saw 99% of the time. When the Z Fighters attacked Beerus, Vegeta was on the sidelines telling them to stop instead of physically imposing himself.

It's not matter of "not liking evidence", but that if I'll have to get convinced and/or to believe someone's subjectivity, then I'll have to adopt those positions which are laughable and ridiculous. Your premise is simply conflictive with the history itself.

Yes, you're right, good work! Vegeta adopted that stance on Beerus and he is not up to lie even if he's not (he is) willing to fight Buu.

Of course, I am thinking in the possibilities of your theory, but has not encountered how it can work, if Vegeta would just dialogue with Buu, then nothing guarantess that Buu would hear him, even if (which he is not) not willing to fight. That is the most logical approach to a conclussion you have brought, which isn't enough. Do better.

So coming to a logical conclusion based on how the storyline operated is being dishonest?

We explicitly saw Vegeta initiate a conversation regarding Buu instead of attacking him. If he went up to Buu to give him a stern verbal warning, Vegeta would just be doing more of what we saw from him all the way through to that point, which is talk.

Could a fight break out as a result of things going sideways between them? Possibly, but this doesn't prove that Vegeta could take Buu in a fight, which is your premise.

I mean, when Vegeta was not feeling the need to fight anymore in the Cell Saga, he also contradicted himself in the Buu Saga. THAT IS THE AVAILABLE INFORMATION THAT WE HAVE OF HIS CHARACTER aside from what happened in the Freeza saga and how he acted in an stance that he objectively WASN'T WILLING TO FIGHT, it's up to you to prove it different and try to contradict the story for making your premise work.

Vegeta was not willing to fight Beerus, but also Bulma told him to defeat him, even after Buu got wiped. Saying that Vegeta would not be able to take on Buu is absurd, but also your premises are. Of course, Beerus told Vegeta he is disturbing, but that happens afterwards he offers to punish Buu.

Why would Vegeta attack Buu if he doesn't have Beerus' permission? But Buu would punch him and he is not available to talk which Vegeta would (again) began a fight. How can you expect patience of someone who is enraged or Vegeta, seriously?

Bulma was confident on Vegeta taking on Beerus, even though she saw him trash on Buu. Bulma is also aware at how strong the group is, seen as how she knows Trunks grew in the future or afterwards knowing that not even Goku could defeat someone so not even Goten and Trunks fused would be able to do anything.

So using facts and logic equates to dishonesty and lies in your warped mind...

There's two ways this conversation can go from here on out:

1) You continue getting bodied, or:

2) You just admit that you got carried away with speculation and that there is an alternative way of looking at this.

Wouldn't be surprised if you choose number 1.

Don't be ashamed to choose number 2. I won't clown you for it. It would show that you're willing improve yourself instead of being content with mediocrity.

That's childish as it can be, but considering your nature is not to amaze me as you decide to use childish tricks every now and then when something doesn't favour you and hold different angles in a hope your premise can be functional. Even then, you acting like this is very telling and tells me that you know you are lying (your being inside is different and doesn't have any confidence on their premises and so on) but from your character as a whole you're wanting us to sell a different image on how yourself are, sometimes even small pieces of someone true personality are very telling to how they themselves are.

If you think you're winning due to someone not responding you again and if it makes you happy, I am considering it as an option, but it can also depend at how you can say things, because the most you can do is entertain someone with those kind of things. Also, if you're not interested in objectivity, just tell me openly, you don't lose anything and everyone who reads this conversation pretty much can tell that.

You think you can treat me as your bitch, but your attemp was an absolute failure, and as predictable as you are, I can think as of now that you'll be in denial once again about this if you respond again.

 

[Spiral-Force]

It's not matter of "not liking evidence", but that if I'll have to get convinced and/or to believe someone's subjectivity, then I'll have to adopt those positions which are laughable and ridiculous. Your premise is simply conflictive with the history itself.

Yes, you're right, good work! Vegeta adopted that stance on Beerus and he is not up to lie even if he's not (he is) willing to fight Buu.

Of course, I am thinking in the possibilities of your theory, but has not encountered how it can work, if Vegeta would just dialogue with Buu, then nothing guarantess that Buu would hear him, even if (which he is not) not willing to fight. That is the most logical approach to a conclussion you have brought, which isn't enough. Do better.

I mean, when Vegeta was not feeling the need to fight anymore in the Cell Saga, he also contradicted himself in the Buu Saga. THAT IS THE AVAILABLE INFORMATION THAT WE HAVE OF HIS CHARACTER aside from what happened in the Freeza saga and how he acted in an stance that he objectively WASN'T WILLING TO FIGHT, it's up to you to prove it different and try to contradict the story for making your premise work.

You haven't given a valid reason as to why my premise is conflictive. Also, the fact that we're discussing the EVIDENCE that I presented would go against the idea that it's subjective. If you disagree, then provide an actual argument instead of lazily dismissing it as ridiculous.

You're telling me to do better, yet you pivoted from your premise of Vegeta > Buu to talking about whether they would end up fighting or not, which doesn't prove your scaling.

Vegeta was not willing to fight Beerus, but also Bulma told him to defeat him, even after Buu got wiped. Saying that Vegeta would not be able to take on Buu is absurd, but also your premises are. Of course, Beerus told Vegeta he is disturbing, but that happens afterwards he offers to punish Buu.

As we saw, Vegeta could not defeat Beerus in any capacity. Being encouraged to fight a battle that he had no hope in winning proves two things:

- Bulma was clueless in this situation (what a shocker...)
- Vegeta had no chance in the fight

For you to somehow conclude Vegeta > Buu out of this shows that you're indulging in speculation.

If you attempt to push back on this, that tells me that you have a problem with how the story is written. In other words, you can't accept the narrative for what it is.

Why would Vegeta attack Buu if he doesn't have Beerus' permission? But Buu would punch him and he is not available to talk which Vegeta would (again) began a fight. How can you expect patience of someone who is enraged or Vegeta, seriously?

Firstly, Vegeta didn't say he would attack Buu; he spoke of punishment. And conversating with Beerus over punishment shows that the situation was bigger than both Vegeta and Buu. Beerus is a different animal, and keeping him calm matters more than aggravated squabbles on the side. Why would Vegeta stoop to Buu's juvenile nature by fighting him? You seem to think really lowly of Vegeta's intelligence and still fail to understand the context.

Secondly, if they were to scrap, how would that help? Vegeta didn't do anything to suggest that this would go well for him, or the event as a whole. None of the guests would co-sign this type of behaviour.

Bulma was confident on Vegeta taking on Beerus, even though she saw him trash on Buu. Bulma is also aware at how strong the group is, seen as how she knows Trunks grew in the future or afterwards knowing that not even Goku could defeat someone so not even Goten and Trunks fused would be able to do anything.

The problem with this take is that it's meaningless when considering what happened. Vegeta had no shot against Beerus, so why should Bulma's confidence be used for reference? It only demonstrates how wrong someone can be when they don't understand what's going on.

That's childish as it can be, but considering your nature is not to amaze me as you decide to use childish tricks every now and then when something doesn't favour you and hold different angles in a hope your premise can be functional. Even then, you acting like this is very telling and tells me that you know you are lying (your being inside is different and doesn't have any confidence on their premises and so on) but from your character as a whole you're wanting us to sell a different image on how yourself are, sometimes even small pieces of someone true personality are very telling to how they themselves are.

If you think you're winning due to someone not responding you again and if it makes you happy, I am considering it as an option, but it can also depend at how you can say things, because the most you can do is entertain someone with those kind of things. Also, if you're not interested in objectivity, just tell me openly, you don't lose anything and everyone who reads this conversation pretty much can tell that.

You think you can treat me as your bitch, but your attemp was an absolute failure, and as predictable as you are, I can think as of now that you'll be in denial once again about this if you respond again.

You come across as a very emotional person with this outburst of yours. Using ad hominem attacks on me instead of just focusing on the argument.

If you don't want to talk further, no one is holding you hostage.

If you want to continue, then no problem. But keep your personal feelings and baseless accusations out of this.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

You haven't given a valid reason as to why my premise is conflictive. Also, the fact that we're discussing the EVIDENCE that I presented would go against the idea that it's subjective. If you disagree, then provide an actual argument instead of lazily dismissing it as ridiculous.

You're telling me to do better, yet you pivoted from your premise of Vegeta > Buu to talking about whether they would end up fighting or not, which doesn't prove your scaling.

At this point its pretty much as clear as the light of the day, that whatever thing I say you'll shield into "you have given no evidence" or simply ignore/blatantly discard proofs I have given. Still, if I have to repeat myself, Vegeta stated that saiyans solve things with their fists, that's the most accerted statement we have when it comes to Vegeta (the character we're talking about).

Not really, if you believe that speaks greatly of your premise, more wrong you can't be. Insistence is not a good method to go with, someone who can say and insist that polar bears are blue, but that doesn't make their premise as something right.

As we saw, Vegeta could not defeat Beerus in any capacity. Being encouraged to fight a battle that he had no hope in winning proves two things:

- Bulma was clueless in this situation (what a shocker...)
- Vegeta had no chance in the fight

For you to somehow conclude Vegeta > Buu out of this shows that you're indulging in speculation.

If you attempt to push back on this, that tells me that you have a problem with how the story is written. In other words, you can't accept the narrative for what it is.

So? Bulma is aware of how strong Vegeta and Buu are, and even if someone beats up or even tank Buu, she still has confidence on her husband putting that someone into their side, you're not thinking o logically or plainly acting dumb because you want your argument to work, not because you're trying to be honest.

Even though, Vegeta can't defeat Beerus, he can defeat someone who can also tank Buu as that is the reference we have.

Firstly, Vegeta didn't say he would attack Buu; he spoke of punishment. And conversating with Beerus over punishment shows that the situation was bigger than both Vegeta and Buu. Beerus is a different animal, and keeping him calm matters more than aggravated squabbles on the side. Why would Vegeta stoop to Buu's juvenile nature by fighting him? You seem to think really lowly of Vegeta's intelligence and still fail to understand the context.

Secondly, if they were to scrap, how would that help? Vegeta didn't do anything to suggest that this would go well for him, or the event as a whole. None of the guests would co-sign this type of behaviour.

And a punishment would be... Buu is not his slave and not even people who is near to him is open to hear them, so how would Vegeta punish him?

Buu is not someone juvenile at that point and was completely mad and out of control.

The problem with this take is that it's meaningless when considering what happened. Vegeta had no shot against Beerus, so why should Bulma's confidence be used for reference? It only demonstrates how wrong someone can be when they don't understand what's going on.

So, I think I'm understanding your problem, correct me if I am wrong. But, your approach is basically based remotely on feats, aside from statements or anything?

Vegeta doesn't need to have a chance on Beerus for him to stomp on Buu. Plus, he was the only one aware of Goku's defeat and that Goku is the strongest of the group. So his lack of confidence is also understable due to that and due to his trauma, doesn't change that he can defeat someone who can tank on Buu, as I said earlier, that's the only reference Bulma had due to their (Beerus and Buu) fight.

In a similar way, Base Gotenks doesn't need to actually defeat Buu for us to know that his confidence speaks of him being stronger than SSJ Goten or Trunks.

You come across as a very emotional person with this outburst of yours. Using ad hominem attacks on me instead of just focusing on the argument.

If you don't want to talk further, no one is holding you hostage.

If you want to continue, then no problem. But keep your personal feelings and baseless accusations out of this.

I'll only be responding if I find non-repetitive the things you said.

 

[Spiral-Force]

At this point its pretty much as clear as the light of the day, that whatever thing I say you'll shield into "you have given no evidence" or simply ignore/blatantly discard proofs I have given. Still, if I have to repeat myself, Vegeta stated that saiyans solve things with their fists, that's the most accerted statement we have when it comes to Vegeta (the character we're talking about).

Not really, if you believe that speaks greatly of your premise, more wrong you can't be. Insistence is not a good method to go with, someone who can say and insist that polar bears are blue, but that doesn't make their premise as something right.

Stop waffling and prove that Vegeta's statement isn't a generality.

So? Bulma is aware of how strong Vegeta and Buu are, and even if someone beats up or even tank Buu, she still has confidence on her husband putting that someone into their side, you're not thinking o logically or plainly acting dumb because you want your argument to work, not because you're trying to be honest.

Even though, Vegeta can't defeat Beerus, he can defeat someone who can also tank Buu as that is the reference we have.

Bulma was wrong, so this argument is illogical. Honestly one of the worst takes you've had.

And a punishment would be... Buu is not his slave and not even people who is near to him is open to hear them, so how would Vegeta punish him?

Buu is not someone juvenile at that point and was completely mad and out of control.

A verbal warning, as to not make himself appear as bad as the aggressor [Buu] and better adhere to the environment he was in.

Juvenile in the sense that he was throwing a tantrum over the silliest of things. Whatever you want to call it, Buu was being a nuisance.

So, I think I'm understanding your problem, correct me if I am wrong. But, your approach is basically based remotely on feats, aside from statements or anything?

Vegeta doesn't need to have a chance on Beerus for him to stomp on Buu. Plus, he was the only one aware of Goku's defeat and that Goku is the strongest of the group. So his lack of confidence is also understable due to that and due to his trauma, doesn't change that he can defeat someone who can tank on Buu, as I said earlier, that's the only reference Bulma had due to their (Beerus and Buu) fight.

In a similar way, Base Gotenks doesn't need to actually defeat Buu for us to know that his confidence speaks of him being stronger than SSJ Goten or Trunks.

I'll only be responding if I find non-repetitive the things you said.

Wrong. My scepticism comes from your lack of evidence in all areas of the discussion, not just feats. The statements you've selected for your argument have been semantic, irrelevant, and misunderstood due to you seeing things through a biased lens.

When you look at the overarching reason for Bulma's statement, it should be understood that she wasn't speaking from a position of knowledge. She had no idea how strong Beerus was, so her confidence was blind. When someone is speaking from a place of emotion rather than rationale, there's no reason to take what they're saying seriously on any level. It'd be disingenuous for you to think that your stance on this isn't disagreeable.