Prime Rayleigh and Gaban vs Roger

[Warmmedown]

Could they beat Roger

 

[Future Warrior]

Prime Rayleigh alone should at least push Roger to mid-diff. Scopper Gabban probably isn’t that far behind the Vice Captain, so it’s extreme diff either. Leaning towards the team.

 

[SSJ2]

I'd probably give it to Roger. It took Garp and Sengoku to beat Shiki who is weaker than Roger. Gaban and Rayleigh can put up a good fight but aren't strong enough to beat him.

 

[Warmmedown]

By that logic then, does that mean EoS Luffy would be able to beat both EoS Zoro (ie the strongest swordsman) and current Shanks at the same time? Or beat current Shanks and Big Mom at the same time? Seeing as Mihawk, the strongest swordsman, is probably around Shanks' level and Rayleigh was probably at least as strong as Mihawk, likely being the strongest swordsman of Roger's era.

 

[Future Warrior]

Sengoku and Garp have confidence taking Shiki 1v1.

 

[SSJ2]

View attachment 4348
Sengoku and Garp have confidence taking Shiki 1v1.

Akainu was also confident to the point of arrogance against Whitebeard and got throttled by him when he could barely use Haki. Prime Garo and Sengoku are monsters though, they should be close enough to Shiki to fight him 1 on 1, but definitely nowhere close to a guaranteed win. Garp tagging along against Sengoku's will is telling.

By that logic then, does that mean EoS Luffy would be able to beat both EoS Zoro (ie the strongest swordsman) and current Shanks at the same time? Or beat current Shanks and Big Mom at the same time? Seeing as Mihawk, the strongest swordsman, is probably around Shanks' level and Rayleigh was probably at least as strong as Mihawk, likely being the strongest swordsman of Roger's era.

Doubtful, but who knows for sure. The only non Pirate King tier fighter we saw Roger fight was Oden, who was at best approaching Yonko level at that point, and he flung Oden across the island with one attack. It's hard to say what someone between Oden and Whitebeard would have managed there.

 

[Future Warrior]

Akainu was also confident to the point of arrogance against Whitebeard and got throttled by him when he could barely use Haki. Prime Garo and Sengoku are monsters though, they should be close enough to Shiki to fight him 1 on 1, but definitely nowhere close to a guaranteed win. Garp tagging along against Sengoku's will is telling.

Does Akainu say anything about dealing with Whitebeard on his own, 1v1? You won’t find a single panel of that.

Sengoku is depicted as one of the most intelligent characters in the series. Your interpretation of the scene would be completely out of character for him.

 

[SSJ2]

Does Akainu say anything about dealing with Whitebeard on his own, 1v1? You won’t find a single panel of that.

Sengoku is depicted as one of the most intelligent characters in the series. Your interpretation of the scene would be completely out of character for him.

Maybe not, but he was pretty well calling Whitebeard weak and talking shit the entire time. That is basically a reflection of himself if he doesn't think he can beat Whitebeard.

 

[Future Warrior]

Akainu hates pirates, of course he’ll talk the talk. But actions speak louder than words, he never objected to his fellow admirals taking their own shots at him.

My argument is that Shiki being above Garp and Sengoku hinges on the idea that teaming up was a requirement for the two. Once you acknowledge that it’s at least feasibly possible for a 1v1 to go in either favor, then that claim loses all credibility. Unless of course, you believe Sengoku was acting recklessly, which I find to be out of character. Garp only tagged along cause his rival Roger was there.

You saying Shiki is stronger is just as much headcanon as me saying he isn’t. The only verifiable claim we can make is that Shiki can give them a good fight 1v1.

I say they teamed up cause it wasn’t worth the time and energy, and he was a high profile pirate that had the audacity to casually walk into Marine Headquarters. They weren’t gonna show any mercy on him.

 

[SSJ2]

But don’t forget that Marineford was absolutely demoed after their fight. You’d think if they were both on par with him they could end the fight nearly instantly. Imagine Shanks and Kaido against G5 Luffy.

 

[Future Warrior]

Yeah, and that's really the only reason we can say for sure that he's able to fight on par with them individually. He didn't go down without a fight. We don't have enough examples of 2v1s in One Piece to make comparisons.

In IRL, even 2v1s don't end cleanly for either parties lol.

Roger - 100
Prime WB - 99
Prime Garp - 97
Prime Sengoku - 94
Shiki - 94

 

[SSJ2]

I think we're on the same page. I might've been underrating Sengoku by a bit.