RoSaT Levels Completed + Analysis

[FeatsofPower]

Ok I’ve come to a resolution, I think I got it figured out. I got everything I wanted, the buff amp is bigger than I’d like but it was unavoidable.


SSJ Goku Androids 150
Ssj Goku Rosat 200

Piccolo 250
Light Grenade 375

Grade 2 Goku 500

Imperfect Cell 750
Android 16 750

Ssj Trunks 1,900
Ssj Vegeta 2,000
Semi Cell 2,000

Grade 3 Goku 2,500

Semi Cell FP 3,000

Perfect Cell Fake Ki 4,500
Grade 2 Trunks 4,750
Grade 2 Vegeta 5,000

Perfect Cell 12,500
Warm Up Goku 12,500

Final Flash 15,000

Grade 3 Trunks 23,750
Buff Cell 25,000

50% Goku 75,000


So now that I’ve reworked the Base Saiyan levels in the Buu Saga and gave them the proper respect to just how powerful they are it’s opened up some spacing in the way I handle the Grade forms. 50% Goku has gotten way stronger which allows for a ton of more room between Super Namek Piccolo and all the Cell levels and Grade forms. I think I’ve found a good placement for everything and I’m finally happy with the results. It was a bit harder than I expected initially, but the work appears done to me. Here are all the variables I had to contend with.

Android Saga Goku is 75% of Rosat Goku. Goku has been training for some time and has improved but he’s still not up to par with the Super Namek Piccolo.

Piccolo uses a 1.5x amp for Light Grenade, a significant improvement over the Namek Arc ki amp of 1.33, Androids Saga BBA and Kamehameha are 1.5x as well.

Imperfect Cell is finally getting the credit he deserves a full 2x stronger than the Light Grenade which is the most nerfed gap in the entire series. When you take this gap seriously you put your own list on another level compared to others imo. Only a really knowledgeable, experienced power leveler knows how to handle this as it adds a ton of problems with spacing.

Android 16 is 37.5% of Semi Cell, this is one of the most dramatic tanks of the series, this is an appropriate spacing for sure.

Semi Cell is 80% of Grade 3 Goku, allowing Gohan to definitively say Goku would beat him.

Remember it gets dicey with the Grade 2 and Grade 3 boosts, make one too small you must increase the other to get Goku over Semi Cell. You can’t improve Goku too much because he was more focused on training Gohan. And if you make Grade 2 too big then Semi Cells improvement is too big. If you make Grade 3 too big then Buff Cell is going to be too strong against ssj2 Gohan if you are consistent with the buff multiplier.

Also you want to keep the gaps between Semi Cell and Android 16 somewhere around Super Vegeta and Perfect Cell gap, I usually lean with the former having a bit larger but these two should be somewhat comparable for sure.

So we have all of these variables that must be accounted for.

Also an added bonus here is Warm Up Goku vs 50% Goku. A Goku who doesn’t have to power up should definitely be much weaker than a Goku who does.

I have Warm Up Goku at 16% of 50% Goku making Warm Up Goku around 8% of his full power.

The work is done let me know what you guys think.


Super Vegeta = Base Goku Buu Saga

Warm Up Goku/Perfect Cell = Ssj Boys

Base Vegeta CG = Ssj Vegeta Rosat 1

Not sure what else is there but this has been good.

 

[SIAD]

Ok I’ve come to a resolution, I think I got it figured out. I got everything I wanted, the buff amp is bigger than I’d like but it was unavoidable.


SSJ Goku Androids 150
Ssj Goku Rosat 200

Piccolo 250
Light Grenade 375

Grade 2 Goku 500

Imperfect Cell 750
Android 16 750

Ssj Trunks 1,900
Ssj Vegeta 2,000
Semi Cell 2,000

Grade 3 Goku 2,500

Semi Cell FP 3,000

Perfect Cell Fake Ki 4,500
Grade 2 Trunks 4,800
Grade 2 Vegeta 5,000

Perfect Cell 12,500
Warm Up Goku 12,500

Final Flash 15,000

Grade 3 Trunks 24,000
Buff Cell 25,000

50% Goku


So now that I’ve reworked the Base Saiyan levels in the Buu Saga and gave them the proper respect to just how powerful they are it’s opened up some spacing in the way I handle the Grade forms. 50% Goku has gotten way stronger which allows for a ton of more room between Super Namek Piccolo and all the Cell levels and Grade forms. I think I’ve found a good placement for everything and I’m finally happy with the results. It was a bit harder than I expected initially, but the work appears done to me. Here are all the variables I had to contend with.

Android Saga Goku is 75% of Rosat Goku. Goku has been training for some time and has improved but he’s still not up to par with the Super Namek Piccolo.

Piccolo uses a 1.5x amp for Light Grenade, a significant improvement over the Namek Arc ki amp of 1.33, Androids Saga BBA and Kamehameha are 1.5x as well.

Imperfect Cell is finally getting the credit he deserves a full 2x stronger than the Light Grenade which is the most nerfed gap in the entire series. When you take this gap seriously you put your own list on another level compared to others imo. Only a really knowledgeable, experienced power leveler knows how to handle this as it adds a ton of problems with spacing.

Android 16 is 37.5% of Semi Cell, this is one of the most dramatic tanks of the series, this is an appropriate spacing for sure.

Semi Cell is 80% of Grade 3 Goku, allowing Gohan to definitively say Goku would beat him.

Remember it gets dicey with the Grade 2 and Grade 3 boosts, make one too small you must increase the other to get Goku over Semi Cell. You can’t improve Goku too much because he was more focused on training Gohan. And if you make Grade 2 too big then Semi Cells improvement is too big. If you make Grade 3 too big then Buff Cell is going to be too strong against ssj2 Gohan if you are consistent with the buff multiplier.

Also you want to keep the gaps between Semi Cell and Android 16 somewhere around Super Vegeta and Perfect Cell gap, I usually lean with the former having a bit larger but these two should be somewhat comparable for sure.

So we have all of these variables that must be accounted for.

Also an added bonus here is Warm Up Goku vs 50% Goku. A Goku who doesn’t have to power up should definitely be much weaker than a Goku who does.

I have Warm Up Goku at 16% of 50% Goku making Warm Up Goku around 8% of his full power.

The work is done let me know what you guys think.


Super Vegeta = Base Goku Buu Saga

Warm Up Goku/Perfect Cell = Ssj Boys

Base Vegeta CG = Ssj Vegeta Rosat 1

Not sure what else is there but this has been good.

I love it.

You just have to change to Future Trunks SSJ (Post Rosat) in 1,920.

 

[FeatsofPower]

Thank you good catch. I have a few more things to work on. I want to try having a 10x boost for Super Saiyan 3 I think that would be great and that will conclude Ssj Goku Namek until the end.

Then a little work in the Freeza Saga and that should be it for Z at least.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

And then we do Super next

How you got CG Buff Cell?

 

[FeatsofPower]

How you got CG Buff Cell?

Gohan 900
Buff Cell 750
PC 450
Weakened PC 375

So a hypothetical full power Buff Cell matches Gohan but does not exceed him.

I think that works out pretty good.

Oh my, Super seems scary. But honestly, Super manga is probably not all that hard right?

The anime forget about it though there’s no way.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Super is probably a dead end either way. I’m starting to think there’s no reason for the SSJG multiplier to change if fusion multiplier is already variable. So that would be a billion-fold boost every time Goku transforms, even in the manga.

It’s tough man. Anime is pure Toei, manga is pure boring.

 

[FeatsofPower]

Super is probably a dead end either way. I’m starting to think there’s no reason for the SSJG multiplier to change if fusion multiplier is already variable. So that would be a billion-fold boost every time Goku transforms, even in the manga.

It’s tough man. Anime is pure Toei, manga is pure boring.

Yep plus Super is just not really worth it. The level of attention to detail just isn’t there for power levels like the other part of the series. Some things are worth power scaling and some are not.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Yup. The new movie is great, but has terrible scaling. Cell is meant to be Broly/Jiren level, but everyone is running circles around him! Even if we take into account his mindless state making him slow, Gamma 2 ripping off his arm and Piccolo trading blows with him is too much.

 

[SIAD]

Yup. The new movie is great, but has terrible scaling. Cell is meant to be Broly/Jiren level, but everyone is running circles around him! Even if we take into account his mindless state making him slow, Gamma 2 ripping off his arm and Piccolo trading blows with him is too much.

Exact. Even crazier it is in the Manga, even Krillin and #18 manage to annoy Cell Max a bit, who should be on the level of Buff Zombie Gas.

 

[FeatsofPower]

I think I’m on board with BoG happening 4 years after the Buu Saga at this point.

Are you making Ssj Goku ~ Kid Buu?

 

[FeatsofPower]

Rageta 1,000
Goku 500
Ultimate Gohan 300
Ssj3 Gotenks 200
Ssj2 Vegeta 100

This seems fair I’d say. My goodness. Vegetto gunna be stupidly powerful in this case.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I think I’m on board with BoG happening 4 years after the Buu Saga at this point.

Are you making Ssj Goku ~ Kid Buu?

Can’t be. SSJ3 Goku > SSJ3 Gotenks, and SSJ Gotenks > Kid Boo. Goku is just confident and the fight never happens, so why not > Kid Boo? ~ is just a bare minimum.

Rageta 1,000
Goku 500
Ultimate Gohan 300
Ssj3 Gotenks 200
Ssj2 Vegeta 100

This seems fair I’d say. My goodness. Vegetto gunna be stupidly powerful in this case.

Yep, and we’re not even with SSJG yet, but manga SSJG isn’t compared to fusion.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Kuhan stuff aside, I feel like Base Vegetto is whatever as long as he’s above SSJ3 Goku.

Fusion is aways better than fusers, but that’s more a coincidence than a multiplier thing. It’s from base form, but since it’s exponential-ish (not literal AxB, but stronger fighters get a bigger boost) base fusion never falls behind any transformations.

 

[FeatsofPower]

Kuhan stuff aside, I feel like Base Vegetto is whatever as long as he’s above SSJ3 Goku.

Honestly, now that we have that idea that it's Base Zeta Gohan we probably have to factor in for the fusion for Gokan, Base Vegetto > Base Gokan sounds good. A rivals boost exceeding that kind of gap doesn't seem all that big of a deal.

Fusion is aways better than fusers, but that’s more a coincidence than a multiplier thing. It’s from base form, but since it’s exponential-ish (not literal AxB, but stronger fighters get a bigger boost) base fusion never falls behind any transformations.

Yeah I agree. So you think this carries over to Gotenks, where the boys probably only got marginally better compared to how much better Gotenks got, even considering the Post Base power a gag, right?

Goten 1
Goten 1.25

Gotenks 100
Gotenks 150

Something along those lines, right? I think that's a good idea.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Yeah I agree. So you think this carries over to Gotenks, where the boys probably only got marginally better compared to how much better Gotenks got, even considering the Post Base power a gag, right?

Yup. You can see it just on the difference between Vegetto and Gotenks.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

After the Saiyan Saga debate I think I’ll be ditching the big amps too. Goku used his new Ultra Kamehameha that day and then forgot about it or whatever.

SSJ Goku: 1
~ 2nd Grade: 2
~ 3rd Grade: 10

Piccolo: 1.6
~ Light Grenade: 2.4

Cell: 3.6
~ Semi: 7.2
~ FP: 9

SSJ Vegeta: 7.5
~ 2nd Grade: 15
~ Final Flash: 50

Perfect Cell: 37.5

SSJ Trunks: 7.2
~ 2nd Grade: 14.4
~ 3rd Grade: 72

Buff Cell: 75

idk about 50% Goku yet

 

[FeatsofPower]

~ Light Grenade: 2.4

Cell: 3.6

I don't know if this can work. If Nappa is hurt by a 2,800 blast and he's 4,000, Cell needs to be bigger than Nappa was versus the Masenko.

Also, Raditz reacted far different to the Kamehameha than Cell did. Cell needs to be a bigger difference then that.

Everything else looks good.

Well, remember, Warm Up Goku = Warm Up Cell. Goku has to power up quite substantially to hit 50% of power.

So I'd say Warm Up Goku being a low percentage of his power makes sense. 10% or so perhaps.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I don't know if this can work. If Nappa is hurt by a 2,800 blast and he's 4,000, Cell needs to be bigger than Nappa was versus the Masenko.

Also, Raditz reacted far different to the Kamehameha than Cell did. Cell needs to be a bigger difference then that.

Everything else looks good.

Well, remember, Warm Up Goku = Warm Up Cell. Goku has to power up quite substantially to hit 50% of power.

So I'd say Warm Up Goku being a low percentage of his power makes sense. 10% or so perhaps.

Probably. I was using Recoome pseudo-tanking the Final Crash for comparison, but maybe Recoome is just a freak?

On the other hand, Cell is 1.5x the blast here. Nappa was 1.4x and Raditz 1.3x.

Damn you man my numbers were so smooth.

 

[FeatsofPower]

Damn you man my numbers were so smooth.

Lol. Hey, you can still stick with them, but it's our jobs to poke holes in them. No set of numbers is without issue, we are trying to make our numbers be logically consistent with how we view the narrative. It's difficult.

This whole Vegeta Saga thing has thrown me for a loop as well. Introducing this idea of blasts only being 1.33x now. And Kikoho > Masenko.

Now the Nappa vs Masenko gap alters how I view things as well. I don't think Nappa can be 4,000, but, if Kikoho is indeed above Masenko, for him to walk away with hardly any damage like that would probably force him.

It's a tough situation.

I wonder if we can find anything else. Perhaps Kikoho is close enough to what Piccolo estimates Masenko to be, that it no longer matters?

Hmm. That might be a good approach.

But going back to Imperfect Cell. Him being double Light Grenade seems to be a very fair place to be don't you agree? My man is casually strolling into it, how many fighters have we seen who have freaked out about a blast?

But then people can use the Reecome argument that he took it full on and walked away pretty untouched. So if you just widen the gap from that, can't you get Imperfect Cell?

It's a tough situation. And what about the comparison of Reecome vs Final Crash to Kikoho vs Nappa? Wasn't the effect somewhat similar there?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Yeah maybe if we lower Nappa to around 3,000. He needs some effort and bruises his hand.

I think I’ll go with Masenko > Kikoho. Should definitely be stronger than Piccolo, but that’s it.

Not sure if Cell walked through the blast, or if he got knocked on his ass without damage.

Recoome’s armor is gone and he’s covered in bruises. Nappa just got his shoulder pads blown away I think.