RoSaT Levels

[FeatsofPower]

It’s Gingertown Cell man. If not for him I’d be totally on board with the 3x amp. Light Grenade being Piccolo’s Cell Saga Kamehameha makes perfect sense.

The only issue I see with that is that the Galick Gun is probably only 1.33x and I think that means no other ki blast goes beyond that.

So 1.5x in the Android Saga is a significant improvement above the Namek Saga powers already.

So I’m going to use BBA and Kamehameha as 1.5x, a significant improvement above the 1.33 in Namek Saga. And then Final Flash is worlds above that.

But I do like the idea of

Super Vegeta doing a Light Grenade being somewhat close to PCs warm up power. He’s preparing himself for an attack but he can probably sense the energy he’s gathered as well.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

The only issue I see with that is that the Galick Gun is probably only 1.33x and I think that means no other ki blast goes beyond that.

So 1.5x in the Android Saga is a significant improvement above the Namek Saga powers already.

So I’m going to use BBA and Kamehameha as 1.5x, a significant improvement above the 1.33 in Namek Saga. And then Final Flash is worlds above that.

But I do like the idea of

Super Vegeta doing a Light Grenade being somewhat close to PCs warm up power. He’s preparing himself for an attack but he can probably sense the energy he’s gathered as well.

Yeah, Garlic Gun is Vegeta’s equivalent to the Kamehameha. Their amp should be the same.

OG DB is like a different scale so no conflict there.

Saiyan Saga = 1.33x
Freeza Saga = 1.4x
Androids Saga = 1.5x
Cell Games = 1.66x
Boo Saga = 1.8x

A small 1.1x step each time.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

So how we approach this @FeatsofPower? Goku was higher than 416? The 2.22x jump was an inconsistency?

 

[FeatsofPower]

So how we approach this @FeatsofPower? Goku was higher than 416? The 2.22x jump was an inconsistency?

I literally rewrite the BoZ numbers because they are so bad. So I don’t know if I’m the guy to take advice from.

The BoZ numbers are complete garbage and inaccurate to his own story. They are not salvageable.


Goku/Piccolo 600
Kami 100
Tien 10
Roshi .10

Is probably something more in line what I’d do.

 

[Goku9001]

Yeah, Garlic Gun is Vegeta’s equivalent to the Kamehameha. Their amp should be the same.

OG DB is like a different scale so no conflict there.

Saiyan Saga = 1.33x
Freeza Saga = 1.4x
Androids Saga = 1.5x
Cell Games = 1.66x
Boo Saga = 1.8x

A small 1.1x step each time.

How strong was the attack Vegeta launched on Recoome and Frieza? Were they just unconcentrated blasts that Vegeta launched at full power?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

How strong was the attack Vegeta launched on Recoome and Frieza? Were they just unconcentrated blasts that Vegeta launched at full power?

I say 1.33x tops to follow the Garlic Gun amp.

Final Crash (The blast he uses on Recoome) might even be above GG. Recoome isn't gonna be one shot by an attack like 10% stronger than himself, is he?

I literally rewrite the BoZ numbers because they are so bad. So I don’t know if I’m the guy to take advice from.

The BoZ numbers are complete garbage and inaccurate to his own story. They are not salvageable.


Goku/Piccolo 600
Kami 100
Tien 10
Roshi .10

Is probably something more in line what I’d do.

Nah it can't be. Power levels just don't exist in part 1 because they barely use Ki.

 

[FeatsofPower]

I say 1.33x tops to follow the Garlic Gun amp.

It all ties in. Yeah, 1.33x seems perfect for Galick Gun and Final Crash considering his opponents both were 1.33x stronger than him.

And if Vegeta has a 1.33x amp, then it doesn't really make sense for anyone to have an amp superior to him. I'd argue that Freeza and Goku must logically be using a 1.33x amp as well when they do the Kamehameha vs Nova Strike thing.

It would be weird for equal level'd Vegeta vs Goku vs Freeza combination to not be equaled out.

Nah it can't be. Power levels just don't exist in part 1 because they barely use Ki.

That's not how it's ever treated with scouters. Everyone has ki and everyone has their rating.

BoZ levels are simply not taking into account the previous portions of the manga.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

But scouters don’t exist before BoZ. It’s almost a completely different series in term of power dynamics.

 

[FeatsofPower]

But scouters don’t exist before BoZ. It’s almost a completely different series in term of power dynamics.

There are 0 differences in power dynamics. Scouters have been used on many planets and are an ultimate way of finding out someone's battle power and on a universal level, most people can't avoid it.

It's almost like you feel like Earthlings have some special ability or somehting, it's very odd. Power level scouters register a person's battle power which translates to their ability.

They can measure fish on Namek yet somehow they can't register Earthlings? This doesn't make sense man.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Part 1 is more of a plain martial arts show, at least up to the 22nd Budokai or the Piccolo Saga. They only ever use Ki for the Kamehameha and stuff. See how they only say stuff like "What Ki!" when they charge special attacks. You know how we sometimes try to give power levels to real life fighters and strongmen but it always falls apart because power levels aren't linear?

Power level registers Ki. Even in DBZ this is a factor with weaker characters - Goku prefers fusing with Satan over Dende because Dende isn't "the fighting type", even though Dende should be much stronger than Satan. Doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

[FeatsofPower]

Part 1 is more of a plain martial arts show,

No it's not. It's all ki. If you don't have the ki power to keep up, you get one shotted. If they had scouters at the 21st Budokai, they'd see Great Ape Goku get 10x stronger than regular Goku.

They only ever use Ki for the Kamehameha and stuff. See how they only say stuff like "What Ki!" when they charge special attacks. You know how we sometimes try to give power levels to real life fighters and strongmen but it always falls apart because power levels aren't linear?

Power levels are always linear. It doesn't matter if they know how to use their ki or not, they can be accurately valued by scouters. Humans are not special with this.

Power level registers Ki. Even in DBZ this is a factor with weaker characters - Goku prefers fusing with Satan over Dende because Dende isn't "the fighting type", even though Dende should be much stronger than Satan. Doesn't make a lot of sense.

That doesn't change the discrepancy of power levels.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

No it's not. It's all ki. If you don't have the ki power to keep up, you get one shotted. If they had scouters at the 21st Budokai, they'd see Great Ape Goku get 10x stronger than regular Goku.

The word "Ki" isn't even said in the series until like, halfway through it.

Goku and Roshi have same Ki going by their beam struggle in the 21st Budokai, but Goku is clearly physically superior and Roshi won in the end. That's a total discrepancy between 3 different factors.

Power levels are always linear. It doesn't matter if they know how to use their ki or not, they can be accurately valued by scouters. Humans are not special with this.

They aren't linear otherwise they'd start in the trillions since Piccolo blows up the moon.

It's not just humans. Dende is weaker than Mr Satan. Low Ki means other factors can come into play.

That doesn't change the discrepancy of power levels.

That's the point. There's a discrepancy because it's an incomplete system. DB's power scale is much more realistic (When they're not doing gags) and power levels would never work in real life.

 

[FeatsofPower]

The word "Ki" isn't even said in the series until like, halfway through it.

Irrelevant. Humans ability to grasp concepts the rest of the universe knows about means nothing. They used a scouter on Baby Goku.

Goku and Roshi have same Ki going by their beam struggle in the 21st Budokai, but Goku is clearly physically superior and Roshi won in the end. That's a total discrepancy between 3 different factors.

It would be odd for Roshis ki to be a 10 and Goku's to be 100. Their ki is very close to each other.

It's not just humans. Dende is weaker than Mr Satan. Low Ki means other factors can come into play.

Dende would stomp Hercule.

That's the point. There's a discrepancy because it's an incomplete system. DB's power scale is much more realistic (When they're not doing gags) and power levels would never work in real life.

DB does not have a scaling system. They have no scouters, yet scouters still exist during that time and universe. To assume that this period of time somehow fools scouters isn't logical.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Irrelevant. Humans ability to grasp concepts the rest of the universe knows about means nothing. They used a scouter on Baby Goku.

Baby Goku had a power level of 2. Would he beat Kid Gohan who had a power level of 1? Would this baby tank punches from a toddler? This is actually pretty funny to think about.

It would be odd for Roshis ki to be a 10 and Goku's to be 100. Their ki is very close to each other.

Yeah I doubt it's that big. But idk man, power levels just don't work in Part 1. I'm just trying to give a in-universe explanation of that instead of remaking the story.

Dende would stomp Hercule.

Then why does Goku prefer fusing with Satan over Dende? The anime explains why, and it's not because of DBs.

DB does not have a scaling system. They have no scouters, yet scouters still exist during that time and universe. To assume that this period of time somehow fools scouters isn't logical.

But it's there. Goku is both 1,000x stronger than Roshi but also not even 3x stronger. The magic powers of lazy writing made it so.

 

[FeatsofPower]

Baby Goku had a power level of 2. Would he beat Kid Gohan who had a power level of 1? Would this baby tank punches from a toddler? This is actually pretty funny to think about.

Haha I don't know. Goku was harmed by the Rabbit goons when he put his guard down. Gohan was able to effect Dodoria when caught off guard. There's a lot of factors here. But the idea that ki doesn't exist is an out of universe explanation that doesn't work here.

Yeah I doubt it's that big. But idk man, power levels just don't work in Part 1. I'm just trying to give a in-universe explanation of that instead of remaking the story.

They work just fine, they just don't work with BoZ Numbers. Farmer needs to be like .0005 and that other scale I gave is far more accurate to what we saw.

Then why does Goku prefer fusing with Satan over Dende? The anime explains why, and it's not because of DBs.

Dunno, but Dende might ruin Goku's ability to keep his fighting instincts, making any increase of his power not worth it to him. This is for fusion, not for fighting as well. Dende stomps Hercule.

But it's there. Goku is both 1,000x stronger than Roshi but also not even 3x stronger. The magic powers of lazy writing made it so.

Bad power levels don't mean accurate ones shouldn't exist.

 

[FeatsofPower]

@GreatSaiyaman123

I think I got it now. There’s an issue with making Grade 2 a 3x multiplier. It forces Semi Cell’s power up to be larger than we’d like.

Semi Cell doubling his power is bad if we have Perfect Cell doubling his power.

This chain is actually far more finicky than I thought and getting the right balance is key.

My Buff boost for Cell is a bit more than I’d like but it’s the best I could manage.


2.5 x Boost for Grade 2
5x boost for Grade 3

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I’m happy with what I got.

Grade 2 is 2x
Grade 3 is 10x

I don’t really worry about Buff Cell. FP Cell was weakened when suppressed, and buffing up while suppressed the multiplier can be whatever.

 

[FeatsofPower]

Grade 3 is 10x

This makes things very rough. Put your numbers for…

Grade 2 Trunks
Cell
Grade 3 Trunks
Buff Cell

And I’ll show you some of the issues I ran into.

I don’t really worry about Buff Cell. FP Cell was weakened when suppressed, and buffing up while suppressed the multiplier can be whatever.

I agree and you can get away with a little but I’ll show you where it’s problematic.

Show me…

Cell
Buff Cell
Ssj2 Kid Gohan

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Grade 2 Trunks
Cell
Grade 3 Trunks
Buff Cell

Super Trunks: 0.96
Cell: 2
Ultra Trunks: 4.8
Buff Cell: 5

Cell
Buff Cell
Ssj2 Kid Gohan

Cell: 55
Buff Cell: Less than 75 (SPC)
SSJ2 Gohan: 100

 

[FeatsofPower]

Cell: 55
Buff Cell: Less than 75 (SPC)
SSJ2 Gohan: 100

So Buff Cell at FP is 137.5

An almost 1.4x advantage over Kid Gohan’s Super Saiyan 2 power?