Saiyaman's DB Levels

[GSM123]

Hunt for the Dragon Balls

Goku: 50
Bulma: 3.5

Bear Bandit: 20
Sea Turtle: 0.001
Master Roshi: 96

Oolong: 2

Pual: 1.5
Yamcha: 45

Chi-Chi: 40
Gyumao: 80

Boss Rabbit: 10
Rabbit's Goons: 5

Pilaf: 3
Mai: 5
Shu: 4
Oozaru Goku: 500

Goku (Tailess): 40
Kuririn: 30

21st Budokai

Goku: 120
Kuririn: 90
Yamcha: 75
Jackie Chun (Initial): 96

Bacteria: 45
Lanfan: 75
Guilan: 80
Namu: 135

Goku (Tail): 150
Jackie Chun (Serious): 144

Oozaru Goku: 1,500
Jackie Chun (Full Power Kamehameha):

The Red Ribbon Army

Goku (Post Budokai): 180
Colonel Silver: 60

Sgt Metallic: 150
Sgt Murasaki: 90
Android 8:
Genearl White: 20
Buyon: 120

Goku (Post fighting): 200
Kuririn: 90
Bulma: 3

Pirate Robot: 135
General Blue: 150

Bora: 100
Upa: 3

Tao Pai Pai: 600

Master Karin: 1,000

Goku (Post Karin): 750

Adjudant Black: 50
~ Battle Jacket: 550

Uranai Baba's Fighters

Kuririn: 90
Dracula: 30
Upa: 3
Pual: 1.5

Yamcha: 75
Invisible Dude: 60
Mummy Man: 160

Akkuman: 300

Goku: 375
~ Serious: 750

Grandpa Gohan: 750

22nd Budokai

King Chappa: 750
Pamputto: 150
Man Wolf: 50

Kuririn: 840
Yamcha: 825
Chaozu: 750

Tenshinhan (Initial): 825
~ Serious: 1,000
Jackie Chun (Shirt): 800
~ Shirtless: 1,000
~ Unseen Full Power: 1,350

Master Tsuru: 900

Goku (Initial): 900
~ Serious (Full Match Level): 1,500
~ Full Power: 2,250
Tenshinhan (Full Power): 2,000

Piccolo Daimao Wars

Master Mutaito: 3,000
Young Roshi: 2,400
Young Tsuru: 2,400

Goku (Post Budokai): 3,000
~ Match Level: 1,500
Yajirobe: 1,350

Cymbal: 900
Tambourine: 1,800

Piccolo Daimao (Heavy ass cape): 2,750
~ No cape, <50%: 11,000
~ Full Power: 27,500

Chaozu: 750
Master Roshi: 1,350
Tenshinhan: 2,000

Piccolo Daimao (Youth Restored): 60,000
King Castle Guard: 6,000

Yajirobe (Post Tower Climb): 4,500
Karin: 1,000

Drum: 3,000

Goku (Post Choushinsui): 75,000
~ Full Power: 150,000
Piccolo Daimao (Full Power): 150,000

Mr Popo: 300,000
Kami-Sama: 750,000

23rd Budokai

King Chappa: 2,500
Chaozu: 5,000
Yajirobe: 7,500

Chi-Chi: 112,500
Cyborg Tao: 108,000

Yamcha: 120,000
Kuririn: 125,000
Piccolo Jr (Initial): 150,000
~ Serious: 200,000

Tenshinhan: 225,000
Goku (Weighted): 225,000
~ Weighted Speed: 150,000
~ Unweighted: 450,000

Shen: 675,000
Piccolo Jr (Vs Shen): 750,000

Goku (Warming up): 750,000
~ Full Power: 1,500,000
Piccolo Jr (Full Power): 1,350,000

 

[SSJ2]

Popo made clear that Goku was superior to him? I'd like whatever you're smoking please

 

[SSJ2]

How is Chappa overrated when Roshi was shown to be very knowledgeable about him and his fighting skill? Panputto was certainly shown to be overrated, but not Chappa. Roshi was stunned by the way that Goku managed to defeat him. Goku was certainly only using his warm up power, but his performance against Chappa utterly shocked everyone who was watching and was enough to make Roshi fear his odds against Goku. Chappa was able to take several hits from Goku and forced him to block his attacks. It wasn't so one sided that Goku could blow him out the arena with wind, like Roshi did to Yamcha in the 21st.

 

[GSM123]

How is Chappa overrated when Roshi was shown to be very knowledgeable about him and his fighting skill? Panputto was certainly shown to be overrated, but not Chappa. Roshi was stunned by the way that Goku managed to defeat him. Goku was certainly only using his warm up power, but his performance against Chappa utterly shocked everyone who was watching and was enough to make Roshi fear his odds against Goku. Chappa was able to take several hits from Goku and forced him to block his attacks. It wasn't so one sided that Goku could blow him out the arena with wind, like Roshi did to Yamcha in the 21st.

Yeah I suppose I underestimated Chappa. Not being knocked by that first punch is already a feat in it’s own right, even if he had to go all out right after it. He does far better than Mummy and Akkuman did.

I suppose 300-400 is a better placement? He still gets his entire 8 hands combo blocked there no effort.

Popo made clear that Goku was superior to him? I'd like whatever you're smoking please

Popo: “You have incredible power, but don’t make the best of it at all. That’s no good. No point in me testing you. Go home.”

 

[SSJ2]

I'd say 400 based on how high you have Krillin, give or take a little. He's definitely used as a measuring stick to show Goku's progression. He's an impressive fighter.


Pope telling Goku that he has incredible power isn't an admission of inferiority.

 

[GSM123]

I'd say 400 based on how high you have Krillin, give or take a little. He's definitely used as a measuring stick to show Goku's progression. He's an impressive fighter.


Pope telling Goku that he has incredible power isn't an admission of inferiority.

Well being a measure stick doesn't mean much when Pamputto was also one, but the gang's reaction to how easily Chappa was put down does give him some credit. I'd possibly even raise him a bit past 400, but it's hard to tell if Yamcha saying "I didn't think anybody could beat him this easily" is true or said out of shock.

It's not the "You have incredible power" part, but the fact Popo says the flaw is in how he doesn't use it well. The context makes it sound like Goku's poor ability is what stops him from beating Popo, and that idea keeps being reinforced throughout the fight.

 

[SSJ2]

The point Popo was trying to make is that there is more to combat than power alone. How is Popo effortlessly blocking and parrying Goku's attacks with a smile on his face? He is also able to put Goku on his ass with minimal effort in his attacks. That goes beyond his teachings that he was trying to demonstrate to Goku. He was physically superior in every head to head engagement they had, causing Goku to say this:

Chapter: 164, P3.4
Goku: “Amazin’! I’ve never met anyone strong as him before!”

Popo's statement isn't meant to say "you are stronger than me but your current skill-set is the reason why you are losing". What he is getting at is that Goku's only ability is to have formidable strength. He needs to become both a powerful martial artist and a skilled martial artist to be able to contend with Popo. His power alone might be close, but we can see that he is at a physical disadvantage when they fight.

 

[SSJ2]

Also Piccolo Daimao = Kami? What?

 

[GSM123]

The point Popo was trying to make is that there is more to combat than power alone. How is Popo effortlessly blocking and parrying Goku's attacks with a smile on his face? He is also able to put Goku on his ass with minimal effort in his attacks. That goes beyond his teachings that he was trying to demonstrate to Goku. He was physically superior in every head to head engagement they had, causing Goku to say this:

Chapter: 164, P3.4
Goku: “Amazin’! I’ve never met anyone strong as him before!”

Popo's statement isn't meant to say "you are stronger than me but your current skill-set is the reason why you are losing". What he is getting at is that Goku's only ability is to have formidable strength. He needs to become both a powerful martial artist and a skilled martial artist to be able to contend with Popo. His power alone might be close, but we can see that he is at a physical disadvantage when they fight.

Throughout the fight Popo only highlights Goku’s weakness as being related to his “spirit and technique”, and only directly comments on Goku’s raw power as being amazing, but misused. Popo even tells Goku “You can’t beat Mr Popo with just power”. Sounds a bit redundant if power is also what Goku’s lacking, specially when Goku tells the same thing to Raditz later.

Popo says Goku is always trying the same thing and that he’s rather predictable, so no wonder he’d block and land a couple blows on Goku. He’s admittedly seeing through Goku’s movements. Doesn’t look very different from the blows Vegeta landed on 18 or Fat Boo, for example.

“Strong” is a pretty broad term. Doesn’t Goku say the same thing about warm up Cell? Or about Dabra using magic?

But hey, since this is a physical strength based list I might as well raise Popo to above Goku since he’s a lot bigger physically and it justifies him hurting Goku, but I’m not sure. Vegeta was no better than Goku and knocked him out cold in the Boo Arc when he left his guard down.

Also Piccolo Daimao = Kami? What?

Follows a similar logic to the Popo part. Piccolo is shown to lose power with age, and while it’s likely Kami trained a bit since he teached some stuff to Popo, it was’t much since Piccolo Jr still calls him a slacker. His feats would follow the same logic as Popo’s since he still does some stuff against people far above himself anyway: Smacks Piccolo Jr around and even block a full power punch directed to Goku.

 

[SSJ2]

Throughout the fight Popo only highlights Goku’s weakness as being related to his “spirit and technique”, and only directly comments on Goku’s raw power as being amazing, but misused. Popo even tells Goku “You can’t beat Mr Popo with just power”. Sounds a bit redundant if power is also what Goku’s lacking, specially when Goku tells the same thing to Raditz later.

Popo says Goku is always trying the same thing and that he’s rather predictable, so no wonder he’d block and land a couple blows on Goku. He’s admittedly seeing through Goku’s movements. Doesn’t look very different from the blows Vegeta landed on 18 or Fat Boo, for example.

The issue I have with this is whether Popo was seeing through his moves or not, he still had to be strong enough to block Goku's attacks while smiling and deal some serious damage without even trying.

Spoiler

These feats in particular go far beyond reading Goku's moves. Popo is standing still and is still capable of blocking high speed kicks from Goku, and knocks him on his ass without moving. If Goku really had superior power do you think these feats should be possible. I can agree with you in the sequences where Popo senses Goku's movements and evades him with his superior senses, but these occasions are pure head to head combat.

As for Popo's statements being redundant if Goku is also lacking power, I disagree. First of all, the gap doesn't need to be huge. Goku is obviously close enough for Popo to compliment his power, but as I said before power is all that Goku had. If Goku combined his power with a stronger spirit and technique, he'd be able to effectively fight Popo and possibly win. Popo made clear that there are bigger fish in the sea than Piccolo Daimao (obviously talking about himself), and the context was mostly about power.

I'm not sure what you're referencing with Fat Boo and 18 exactly, but I don't recall their opponents performing such feats while standing still and putting in no effort.

But hey, since this is a physical strength based list I might as well raise Popo to above Goku since he’s a lot bigger physically and it justifies him hurting Goku, but I’m not sure. Vegeta was no better than Goku and knocked him out cold in the Boo Arc when he left his guard down.

By this logic shouldn't Metallic be at the top of your list? Size and power really don't correlate in Dragon Ball.

Follows a similar logic to the Popo part. Piccolo is shown to lose power with age, and while it’s likely Kami trained a bit since he teached some stuff to Popo, it was’t much since Piccolo Jr still calls him a slacker. His feats would follow the same logic as Popo’s since he still does some stuff against people far above himself anyway: Smacks Piccolo Jr around and even block a full power punch directed to Goku.

Popo admitted that Kami could have ended Piccolo Daimao if he chose to, but had his reasons not to. Given that you're arguing that their power remained equal after the split, why would only Kami maintain superior technique after the split? Such superior technique that he is able to finger flick the guy who beat Piccolo Daimao in his youth. That doesn't add up to me. Even if we were to follow this logic, at equal powers things such as spirit and technique shouldn't make such a difference that Kami would effortlessly be able to beat Piccolo. Look at Goku vs Freeza for example. Freeza clearly never had the sort of training that Popo provided, yet was more than capable of keeping up with Super Saiyan Goku while at a disadvantage. But we see how Kami deals with someone on Piccolo's level, and there is nothing even about it.

 

[GSM123]

Throughout the fight Popo only highlights Goku’s weakness as being related to his “spirit and technique”, and only directly comments on Goku’s raw power as being amazing, but misused. Popo even tells Goku “You can’t beat Mr Popo with just power”. Sounds a bit redundant if power is also what Goku’s lacking, specially when Goku tells the same thing to Raditz later.

Popo says Goku is always trying the same thing and that he’s rather predictable, so no wonder he’d block and land a couple blows on Goku. He’s admittedly seeing through Goku’s movements. Doesn’t look very different from the blows Vegeta landed on 18 or Fat Boo, for example.

The issue I have with this is whether Popo was seeing through his moves or not, he still had to be strong enough to block Goku's attacks while smiling and deal some serious damage without even trying.

Spoiler

These feats in particular go far beyond reading Goku's moves. Popo is standing still and is still capable of blocking high speed kicks from Goku, and knocks him on his ass without moving. If Goku really had superior power do you think these feats should be possible. I can agree with you in the sequences where Popo senses Goku's movements and evades him with his superior senses, but these occasions are pure head to head combat.

As for Popo's statements being redundant if Goku is also lacking power, I disagree. First of all, the gap doesn't need to be huge. Goku is obviously close enough for Popo to compliment his power, but as I said before power is all that Goku had. If Goku combined his power with a stronger spirit and technique, he'd be able to effectively fight Popo and possibly win. Popo made clear that there are bigger fish in the sea than Piccolo Daimao (obviously talking about himself), and the context was mostly about power.

I'm not sure what you're referencing with Fat Boo and 18 exactly, but I don't recall their opponents performing such feats while standing still and putting in no effort.

How big a gap you think it's necessary for those? Tenshinhan also suffers a lot whenever Goku punches him in the 22nd Budokai. In fact we have plenty of examples of weaker guys hurting stronger ones: Z Fighters vs Nappa, Freeza and Dodoria when Piccolo/Kuririn and Gohan kicked them... They simply won't be capable of shrugging off something they didn't except.

Same for blocking blows: Besides the Kami catching Piccolo's punch point, there's also Goku and Piccolo easily blocking each other's most powerful attacks without a scratch and future Gohan blocking SSJ blows with one hand. There's a whole mechanic behind punches and grabbing them.

Yeah naturally I wouldn't make this gap so big, but there's Popo saying he's nothing to Kami. But hey, this one could be a skill based gap right? I mean Popo is listed as some 5x stronger than Kami or so in the Saiyan Arc

Btw I think the 23rd Budokai, specially Goku vs Tenshinhan might give a good insight on the fruits of Kami's training. Besides Goku better conserving stamina the fight was still pretty even right?

By this logic shouldn't Metallic be at the top of your list? Size and power really don't correlate in Dragon Ball.

They don't correlate but size can help sometimes. Think of 16 holding down Cell, for example.

Popo admitted that Kami could have ended Piccolo Daimao if he chose to, but had his reasons not to. Given that you're arguing that their power remained equal after the split, why would only Kami maintain superior technique after the split? Such superior technique that he is able to finger flick the guy who beat Piccolo Daimao in his youth. That doesn't add up to me. Even if we were to follow this logic, at equal powers things such as spirit and technique shouldn't make such a difference that Kami would effortlessly be able to beat Piccolo. Look at Goku vs Freeza for example. Freeza clearly never had the sort of training that Popo provided, yet was more than capable of keeping up with Super Saiyan Goku while at a disadvantage. But we see how Kami deals with someone on Piccolo's level, and there is nothing even about it.

Piccolo was stuck for centuries in a jar, so he couldn't have kept himself in shape like Kami possibly did. I mean he can't even maintain his full power properly.

Vegeta actually implies Freeza is a gifted fighter when he tells Kuririn making Gohan immortal won't help because "Even if he has the power, he has no experience in combat!".

 

[GSM123]

bump because I redid the list as a proper human being would. I still uphold the values from my last list, but no need to put them when Part 1 lists are just about clobbering random numbers together.

 

[SSJ2]

Yamcha: 45

Chi-Chi: 40

This seems pretty extreme.

Goku: 120
Kuririn: 90
Yamcha: 75
Jackie Chun (Initial): 96

Bacteria: 45
Lanfan: 75
Guilan: 80
Namu: 135

This doesn't look right to me. Yamcha looks far too strong here. And by virtue, Lanfan also looks too strong. I don't see any reason for her to be Yamcha's equal. You have the gap between intial Jackie and Yamcha/Lanfan in between that of Vegeta vs Dodoria/Cui. There's no way that Vegeta could overpower those two using wind alone.

Goku (Post Budokai): 180

Why is Goku stronger post Budokai?

ao Pai Pai: 600


Goku (Post Karin): 750

This looks a bit too big to me. Goku considered Tao to be quite an opponent after taking his barrage of attacks. Dodoria couldn't muster up such a performance against Vegeta.

Grandpa Gohan: 750

22nd Budokai

King Chappa: 750

Chappa > Gohan

Pamputto: 150

I don't see the need for Panputto to be on 21st Goku's level. He should be upper tier in terms of the 21st, but he was cocky about his feat of breaking a wall, which is really not impressive whatsoever.

Goku (Post Budokai): 3,000
~ Match Level: 1,500
Yajirobe: 1,350

This seems extremely unnecessary when nothing suggests that Goku was suppressing the majority of his power.

Piccolo Daimao (Heavy ass cape): 2,750
~ No cape, <50%: 11,000
~ Full Power: 27,500

Well done for acknowledging his cape made of Katchin. Not many have picked up on this.

Having said that, why is 40% Piccolo so high? Does his performance against Goku really necessitate such a massive gap? In turn, I see you haven
't gone with the conventional 10x power-up for post Choshinsui Goku. Why's that?




Not bad. This is better than some of your more recent "experiments"

 

[GSM123]

Yamcha: 45

Chi-Chi: 40

This seems pretty extreme.

You mean the gap? Maybe, maybe not. Didn't Yamcha consider her powerful after seeing her kill the T-Rex and knocked her because of it?

This doesn't look right to me. Yamcha looks far too strong here. And by virtue, Lanfan also looks too strong. I don't see any reason for her to be Yamcha's equal. You have the gap between intial Jackie and Yamcha/Lanfan in between that of Vegeta vs Dodoria/Cui. There's no way that Vegeta could overpower those two using wind alone.

I reckon I just went for the highball with these too. I can see them being much lower, but they kinda just ended up here. I maintain both should be stronger than Bacteria though.

Vegeta literally blew Kui up by pointing at him...

Why is Goku stronger post Budokai?

I believe the bulk, if not all of Goku's gains between the Budokai and Karin's tower should come from his fight with Roshi rather than the Muscle Tower gauntlet, as the former provided a much tougher challenge than the later.

This looks a bit too big to me. Goku considered Tao to be quite an opponent after taking his barrage of attacks. Dodoria couldn't muster up such a performance against Vegeta.

I'll fix this one, rise Tao to 650 or so. But I don't think he should be that close since Goku basically mid diffs him. Btw from the minimalistic gaps I actually thought you weren't putting much thought into these power percentages anymore.

Chappa > Gohan

Nah. Goku vs Chappa was a toss up for the gang, and keep in mind Yamcha didn't put much faith in Goku's gains. If anything Gohan should be weaker since Goku basically tanks his kick and forces him to go the tail, saying he never thought he'd be no match for Goku.

I don't see the need for Panputto to be on 21st Goku's level. He should be upper tier in terms of the 21st, but he was cocky about his feat of breaking a wall, which is really not impressive whatsoever.

Just the usual placement I see for him. He could probably be as low as BoS Goku based on his single feat, but I went for the highball. Might or might not lower him later since his placement doesn't really matter.

This seems extremely unnecessary when nothing suggests that Goku was suppressing the majority of his power.

Yajirobe had considerably more trouble

Piccolo Daimao (Heavy ass cape): 2,750
~ No cape, <50%: 11,000
~ Full Power: 27,500

Well done for acknowledging his cape made of Katchin. Not many have picked up on this.

Having said that, why is 40% Piccolo so high? Does his performance against Goku really necessitate such a massive gap? In turn, I see you haven't gone with the conventional 10x power-up for post Choshinsui Goku. Why's that?[/quote]

Yes, the cape Lord Appule bestowed upon him after having his worth proven for killing Moro in the canonical past. It is said to suppress it's user's power to a mere 1/10 of their total capability in Daizenshuu 8.

Well there isn't really a ceiling for Old Daimao's power, so I went with the gap CC used and put. It does fit with Piccolo's tanking being even more OP than Tao's on pre Karin Goku. Unless Piccolo's clothes were also made of katchin or something...

Talking about conventional, seeing Goku ended up with a 50x boost from 3 to 150k was also a interesting nod that had me. He probably got a Zenkai from the Old Piccolo anal rape, but I'm not listing it there.

 

[SSJ2]

You mean the gap? Maybe, maybe not. Didn't Yamcha consider her powerful after seeing her kill the T-Rex and knocked her because of it?

Was this not because of her helmet?

I reckon I just went for the highball with these too. I can see them being much lower, but they kinda just ended up here. I maintain both should be stronger than Bacteria though.

Vegeta literally blew Kui up by pointing at him...

Not even remotely similar. Vegeta used a kiai attack of sorts to blow up Cui. Roshi merely had to flick his hand to produce enough wind to throw Yamcha out of the ring. That's indescribably more impressive of a feat.

I believe the bulk, if not all of Goku's gains between the Budokai and Karin's tower should come from his fight with Roshi rather than the Muscle Tower gauntlet, as the former provided a much tougher challenge than the later.

It's not about the challenge, it's about the injuries sustained. Saiyan physiology provides a boost in power if one heals from a near death situation. Fighting Roshi at the Budokai doesn't qualify.

Btw from the minimalistic gaps I actually thought you weren't putting much thought into these power percentages anymore.

I always have.

Nah. Goku vs Chappa was a toss up for the gang, and keep in mind Yamcha didn't put much faith in Goku's gains. If anything Gohan should be weaker since Goku basically tanks his kick and forces him to go the tail, saying he never thought he'd be no match for Goku.

I don't understand your point here about Gohan. Regardless, it makes little sense for the gang to be shocked by Goku's fight against Chappa if Chappa was equal to the greatest threat they saw 3 years ago. Why would they be surprised at all?

Just the usual placement I see for him. He could probably be as low as BoS Goku based on his single feat, but I went for the highball. Might or might not lower him later since his placement doesn't really matter.

Attention to detail is critical you hack.

Well there isn't really a ceiling for Old Daimao's power, so I went with the gap CC used and put. It does fit with Piccolo's tanking being even more OP than Tao's on pre Karin Goku. Unless Piccolo's clothes were also made of katchin or something...

Talking about conventional, seeing Goku ended up with a 50x boost from 3 to 150k was also a interesting nod that had me. He probably got a Zenkai from the Old Piccolo anal rape, but I'm not listing it there.

It's fine, it just leads to unnecessary bloating. I dunno, Oozaru Goku being shown when Karin said he felt a glimpse of Goku's true power seems like a pretty good hint as to his increase.

 

[GSM123]

Was this not because of her helmet?

Just checked, and Chi-Chi seemingly threw the blade by herself. Also makes sense for her to be start out rather strong for her to be so powerful in the 23rd with nothing but Gyumao’s training.

Not even remotely similar. Vegeta used a kiai attack of sorts to blow up Cui. Roshi merely had to flick his hand to produce enough wind to throw Yamcha out of the ring. That's indescribably more impressive of a feat.

Daizenshuu 7 actually describes Roshi’s attack as a Kiai as well.

It's not about the challenge, it's about the injuries sustained. Saiyan physiology provides a boost in power if one heals from a near death situation. Fighting Roshi at the Budokai doesn't qualify.

Bigger challenges result in bigger injuries. Vegeta also told Dodoria that “The more [Saiyans] battle, the stronger we get!”, suggesting Zenkais aren’t limited to near death injuries, although injuries certainly have bigger Zenkais. It’s as if fighting were training, and the Roshi fight was the more intense of the two.

Plus Goku didn’t sustain any injuries when fighting at Muscle Tower. The closest thing to that was White’s gun, which just left him dizzy rather than nearing death. IIRC wasn’t Goku pretty wasted after his fight with Roshi?

I always have.

:umad

I don't understand your point here about Gohan. Regardless, it makes little sense for the gang to be shocked by Goku's fight against Chappa if Chappa was equal to the greatest threat they saw 3 years ago. Why would they be surprised at all?

Gohan actually admits being weaker than Goku when they fight. His only chance to secure a win was grabbing Goku’s tail.

Because the greatest threat from 3 years ago actually gave a challenge to Goku, but the new guy just got his blows blocked and then knocked out of bounds no problem. If any numbers are to be changed, it’s Gohan’s.

Attention to detail is critical you hack.

Given how I even listed Pual’s in the list, I’d be inclined to agree.

Pamputto at 50 and Man Wolf at 30. Watcha think?

It's fine, it just leads to unnecessary bloating. I dunno, Oozaru Goku being shown when Karin said he felt a glimpse of Goku's true power seems like a pretty good hint as to his increase.

If we’re ignoring scouters because the Part I gaps are too bloated, then it’s fair I’d bloat things up to eleven. Bloat4life man