SSJ Goku (arrival on Namek) vs Goku (post Ginyu zenkai)

[Hector]

The second Goku cannot use kaioken.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

4.5mil VS 3mil. Definite stomp in SSJ Goku's favour.

 

[Hector]

4.5mil VS 3mil. Definite stomp in SSJ Goku's favour.

Show me your Freeza Saga numbers.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Actual sources > Fanmade numbers when it comes to evidence of value when Toriyama was neither consistent with battle power "logic" and battle powers as a whole served no purpose after 2nd form Freeza.

 

[Diamond Ryan]

Agreed with CC. Even giving some potential leeway above 3 million, I still think a 50x multiplier would be more than enough for pre zenkai Goku to win.

 

[KyuubiAhri]

Post ginyu zenkai goku wins

 

[Pakl]

I think it's obvious Goku is way ahead of 3 million.

Goku ~ Initial final form Freeza >> Vegeta > final form Freeza (expected power) >> 3rd form Freeza >> Piccolo > FP 2nd form Freeza > Weighted Piccolo > Powered up 2nd form Freeza > Initial 2nd form Freeza who was over 1 million

No way Goku is 3 million. I have Goku at 6.5 million. It also fits my theory that M4 False SSjin Goku is as strong as Final Zenkai Vegeta who was a false SSjin using 50x multiplier placing both at 4.5 million.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

I think it's obvious Goku is way ahead of 3 million.

Goku ~ Initial final form Freeza >> Vegeta > final form Freeza (expected power) >> 3rd form Freeza >> Piccolo > FP 2nd form Freeza > Weighted Piccolo > Powered up 2nd form Freeza > Initial 2nd form Freeza who was over 1 million

No way Goku is 3 million.

I've said it once and I'll say it again, battle power gap "logic" has zero consistency in determining an absolute standard for gaps. The fact you have things such as oneshot minimums and the like being heavily contradicted by an injured Goku taking serious hits from Oozaru Vegeta are enough to make this blatantly obvious. Moreover, battle powers stopped being part of the plot once Freeza transformed (bar the irrelevant last use in the manga of suppressed Trunks), so treating them so scrupulously after their use has ended is basically the same as trying to make a battle power list for Part 1 work. That said, the chain doesn't contradict the 3mil entry at all when all that's required is accepting that gaps are completely plot dependant and simply making those between certain characters relatively small.

Once again, actual sources serve as more solid, objective evidence than fanmade battle power lists.

 

[Pakl]

I think it's obvious Goku is way ahead of 3 million.

Goku ~ Initial final form Freeza >> Vegeta > final form Freeza (expected power) >> 3rd form Freeza >> Piccolo > FP 2nd form Freeza > Weighted Piccolo > Powered up 2nd form Freeza > Initial 2nd form Freeza who was over 1 million

No way Goku is 3 million.

I've said it once and I'll say it again, battle power gap "logic" has zero consistency in determining an absolute standard for gaps. The fact you have things such as oneshot minimums and the like being heavily contradicted by an injured Goku taking serious hits from Oozaru Vegeta are enough to make this blatantly obvious. Moreover, battle powers stopped being part of the plot once Freeza transformed (bar the irrelevant last use in the manga of suppressed Trunks), so treating them so scrupulously after their use has ended is basically the same as trying to make a battle power list for Part 1 work. That said, the chain doesn't contradict the 3mil entry at all when all that's required is accepting that gaps are completely plot dependant and simply making those between certain characters relatively small.

Once again, actual sources serve as more solid, objective evidence than fanmade battle power lists.

That makes no sense. Power gaps are only contradictry when it comes to amp and such. While it's true you don't have to be so much stronger to one shot someone, You still require a big gap. Goku being 3x stronger than Initial 2nd form Freeza makes no sense because the gap is too big
If power levels stopped being important why do you use the 3 million number from the guide? If it stopped being important then this number number is just wrong. Guidebooks don't overcome the manga unless you also accept the DB power levels for the manga which are wrong

 

[Captain Cadaver]

The idea that you have to be at a specific gap to accomplish a certain feat is completely flawed when it'd require a standard to work from, of which it's pretty clear there's no direct method of correlation. Take BoZ Piccolo's level at which he was already at Moon/Small Planet level being less than 100x that of a regular human, despite the fact it requires far more than trillions of times the energy the human body can muster to destroy the moon. If there was any linear aspect to the gaps and increases in battle powers, those in the thousands should have already been capable of possibly destroying stars, yet it's apparent that no character even approaches Small Star level until the end of the Freeza Arc. When it's clear that you can't establish a linear progression of attack power and speed for battle powers, it's pretty clear you also can't say definitively that certain gaps are necessary to accomplish specific feats. By the same metric, plenty of characters should have been oneshotted by attacks they clearly weren't (eg. Goku/Vegeta's durability feats in general).

If power levels stopped being important why do you use the 3 million number from the guide?

Because that is an official number stated by a source, thereby holding far more value as evidence than any fanbased list and pretentious overthinking on something Toriyama never intended to be a linear system.

Guidebooks don't overcome the manga unless you also accept the DB power levels for the manga which are wrong

Completely different kettle of fish. The battle powers for Part 1 presented in guides don't work not because of "muh gaps" but because they outright contradict statements within the series that make clear power chains such as V-Jump saying 22nd TB Tenshinhan > 23rd TB Yamcha or Piccolo Daimao > Kami. The 3 million figure, however, contradicts nothing within the original manga and only goes against the flawed perceptions some people project onto it.

 

[GSM123]

I think it's obvious Goku is way ahead of 3 million.

Goku ~ Initial final form Freeza >> Vegeta > final form Freeza (expected power) >> 3rd form Freeza >> Piccolo > FP 2nd form Freeza > Weighted Piccolo > Powered up 2nd form Freeza > Initial 2nd form Freeza who was over 1 million

No way Goku is 3 million. I have Goku at 6.5 million. It also fits my theory that M4 False SSjin Goku is as strong as Final Zenkai Vegeta who was a false SSjin using 50x multiplier placing both at 4.5 million.

4.5mil VS 3mil. Definite stomp in SSJ Goku's favour.

Show me your Freeza Saga numbers.

2nd form Freeza: 1,000,001
~ Powered up: 1,100,000
~ Full Power: 1,320,000

Piccolo: 1,125,000
~ Full Power: 1,350,000

3rd form Freeza: 1,650,000

True Form Freeza: 3,000,000
Vegeta: 2,400,000
Goku: 3,000,000

Now what were you saying again?

 

[Tapion]

It's 2020 and gap enthusiasts still exist

 

[SSJ2]

Base Galu one shots.

 

[Warmmedown]

Goku 1 dominates early, tells Goku 2 that Krillin is dead and Goku 2 goes SSJ and wrecks everybody.