SSJ vs SSJ2 -- Gohan vs Dabura

[ahill1]

Which side are you on?

 

[SSJ2]

Definitely SSJ. Given that Dragon Ball is a manga, I quite simply cannot ignore what is blatantly shown to us.. Gohan being a Super Saiyan that is. We see 2 clear SSJ2s in Goku and Vegeta within the same chapter as Gohan, so his design being that of SSJ makes it pretty easy for me to decide.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

He’s a SSJ as much as Goku was a SSJ when he blew Yakon up.

Literally everything points out to Gohan being a SSJ2, while the opposite side’s argument can be summarized in a single word: “Sparks”.

 

[SSJ2]

If everything points to it then why would his design specifically be different as a SSJ2? At the Budokai his design was showcased as a SSJ2, and its rather easy to see the designs are completely different. So no, not everything points to him being SSJ2, and no, the argument is not "sparks". Come on man, sometimes I wonder what has gotten into you lately. You're making it sound like anyone with a differing opinion is a retard. That's not good man.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

SSJ and SSJ2 are not two clearly distinctive states; this is both stated by AT and implied at Cell Games, when Cell stated SSJ Gohan's power increased a little. I think Gohan was in an intermediate state; he could draw out some of his SSJ2 power, but he needed his rage to draw it out fully.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

If everything points to it then why would his design specifically be different as a SSJ2? At the Budokai his design was showcased as a SSJ2, and its rather easy to see the designs are completely different. So no, not everything points to him being SSJ2, and no, the argument is not "sparks". Come on man, sometimes I wonder what has gotten into you lately. You're making it sound like anyone with a differing opinion is a retard. That's not good man.

Perhaps beause both forms have pretty much the same design?

By the time Gohan fought Dabra he was perceived as pretty weak, so the sparks come in hand here to show how he’s far from his peak. On the other hand Budokai Gohan was perceived as a powerhouse that filled half of Majin Boo’s meter. Think about how Nappa had sparks when powering up to stomp the Z Fighters but barely an aura when powering up to barely match Goku.

Dunno man. Perhaps I’m getting tired already.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

He was SSjin2. The comparison with him to his younger self from Cell Games makes a lot of sense if he was SSjin2 than SSjin.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

He was SSjin2. The comparison with him to his younger self from Cell Games makes a lot of sense if he was SSjin2 than SSjin.

Plus it’s vaguely implied (And flat out stated in Daizenshuu 2) that Gohan only lost power as a SSJ2, making it the comparisons even more logical if Gohan was a SSJ2 there.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

SSJ for several reasons:

- Fits with the art, the lightning of SS2 being the one thing was consistent with for this arc.
- Gohan states Goku and Vegeta were fighting on a level above SSJ, which would show Gohan wasn't doing the same against Dabura. Even if assuming he was segregating his far weaker SS2 form from theirs, the statement still wouldn't make sense if Shin was already aware of him using a power above his SSJ form in combat.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I don’t get it. Gohan saying Goku is a SSJ2 implies he isn’t?

I mean, he does says Goku is even further beyond the SSJ, implying that he himsef already surpassed Super Saiyan. That can just be because Gohan is a FPSSJ though, but still. Most of you guys don’t even think FPSSJ is a different transformation.

 

[SSJ2]

Gohan and Dabra barely moved Boo’s meter, whereas Gohan explicitly stated that Goku/Vegeta being ascended Super Saiyans was the reason why they were doing so much damage. Honestly it is pretty well outright stated that Gohan was only a SSJ based on this:

That is Literally self admittance from Gohan that his fight did not rack up that sort of damage because it was only a normal Super Saiyan tier battle.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

That doesn’t create an issue. Mind you Dabra is Cell level, and Perfect Cell was unable to do anything but budge SSJ2 Gohan. This goes in hand with SSJ2 Gohan tanking Dabra’s blast.

I think this actually creates an issue for you, SSJ2. Sure, they were too weak to budge the meter, but why isn’t Gohan all fucked from Dabra’s blast? Cell was at least powerful enough to do cosmetic damage, and this is a Gohan far weaker than the one Cell had fought.

 

[ahill1]

Cosmetic damage isn't always reliable. Goku stated Gohan's chi didn't change after he took Cell's blast, whereas we can see by the pointer's positions that Gohan at least took some damage by Dabura's blast, only it wasn't noticeable.

 

[Void]

AT must've just had selective memory about Super Saiyan 2's appearance considering he drew Gohan as a SS2 during the 25th TB and had already shown SS2 Goku and SS2 Vegeta before the page posted above.

 

[SIAD]

Gohan was SSJ against Dabura.

  Goku was not 100% sure that Vegeta could become SSJ2, until he saw Majin Vegeta becoming SSJ2. even so, Goku knew that Vegeta could easily defeat Dabura, when the latter was fighting at the same level as Gohan.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Quiz time: What forms are being used in those instances?

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

[SSJ2]

Yea, single panels show there is absolutely no consistency between SSJ and SSJ2 designs. None!!

 

[Pyro]

Spoiler

Spoiler

Name that Super Saiyan form!

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Yea, single panels show there is absolutely no consistency between SSJ and SSJ2 designs. None!!

If it's supposed to be the defining trait, then there shouldn't be exceptions.

 

[Pyro]

He’s a SSJ as much as Goku was a SSJ when he blew Yakon up.

Literally everything points out to Gohan being a SSJ2, while the opposite side’s argument can be summarized in a single word: “Sparks”.

You've become VoR 2.0 lately and suddenly, man. Calm the hell down. Life is worth living.