SSJ2 2x multiplier experiment

[GSM123]

I also took the liberty to have Gohan as a SSJ against Dabura and to use the 50/2/4 multipliers on Gotenks. That does not relate to my official numbers though, since i still have a nerfed multiplier for fusions and Gohan as a SSJ2.

Warming up Cell/SSJ Goku: 40
FPSSJ Goku: 100
Cell (Powered up): 112.5
SSJ Gohan: 150
Cell (Speed up): 150
Cell Jrs: 65
SSJ Vegeta: 62.5
SSJ Trunks: 60
Piccolo: 50
SSJ2 Gohan: 300
Cell (Full Power/"Grade 2"): 200
Cell (Power Weighted/"Grade 3): 240
Cell (Zenkai): 300

SSJ Gohan: 120
SSJ Goten: 108
SSJ Trunks: 112.5
SSJ Vegeta: 135
SSJ Goku: 180
Piccolo: 50~60
Kaioshin: 90
SSJ2 Gohan: 240
Dabura: 112,5
SSJ Gohan's Golden Kamehameha: 300 (Should be >> his SSJ2 form as stated by Shin)
Fat Buu (Initial): 240
SSJ2 Goku/Majin Vegeta: 360
Fat Buu (1st power up): 480
Fat Buu (2nd power up): 720
Vegeta's Finger Blast: 720
Fat Buu (Full Power): 1,200
SSJ3 Goku: 1,440
Gotenks: 720 (With his annoying personality, i doubt Buu would just one shot him and leave)
SSJ Gotenks: 36,000 (Now the hax starts)
Gohan (Post Z Sword): 12
Good Buu: 480
Evil Buu: 720
Super Buu (Initial): 54,000
Gotenks (Post Rosat): 60,000
Super Buu (Serious): 3,600,000
SSJ Gotenks: 3,000,000
Super Buu (Full Power): 20,000,000
SSJ2 Gotenks: 6,000,000
SSJ3 Gotenks: 24,000,000
Chou Gohan: 32,000,000
Super Buutenks: 44,000,000
Super Buuhan: 52,000,000
Vegetto: 3,000,000
Super Vegetto: 150,000,000
SSJ2 Vegetto: 300,000,000
SSJ3 Vegetto: 1,200,000,000
Huge Buu: 28,000,000
Kid Buu: 1,400 (Yeah, Huge Buu is 20,000x stronger than Kid Buu)

 

[ahill1]

I think it doesn't look bad. Perfect Cell (suppressed) is 75% of Perfect Cell full power and FP Perfect Cell is 66% of SSJ2 kid Gohan. It seems decent.

I generally have full power Perfect Cell at 50~55% of SSJ2 kid Gohan due to Gohan tanking him better than Vegeta SSJ did against #19 post... and based on the implied chain of Vegeta SSJ > Piccolo > #20 post > #19 post, it's pretty hard to not have a pretty big gap between Vegeta and #19. I can't have it as less than a 60% gap, therefore making the SSJ2 boost considerably bigger than 2x. Unless I go with Perfect Cell undergoing a 1.1x power up (going from 50 to 55% of ssj2 Gohan), which I am also not cool with.

But the 2x boost works pretty nicely in the Boo arc. Frankly, looking just at the Boo arc, I'd say a 2x boost is perfect. Maybe you can work with it by saying Gohan got a rage boost in the Cell Games, therefore making his SSJ2 boost bigger than 2x, at let's say 3x... and that the rage boost came right when he turned into a SSJ2.

 

[GSM123]

I was thinking on giving Gohan a rage boost tbh. With this, we can have both SSJ Vegeta ~ SSJ Kid Gohan and Majin Vegeta >= SSJ2 Kid Gohan. A rage boost is already kind of implied when Gohan's power increases when the Cell Jrs are beating the Z Fighters. Not sure if should be 3x, since Goku would have to be at least 1,66x to close the gap in SSJ2. 2.5x works fine IMO:

SSJ Gohan: 150
SSJ2 Gohan: 375
Full Power Cell: 200
Power Weighted Cell: 300
Super Cell: 360

SSJ2 Goku: 400
SSJ Goku: 200
SSJ Vegeta: 150
SSJ Gohan: 120

But SSJ2 Gohan is too close to SSJ Goku... Ow, headache. God, i wish P was here too.

 

[GSM123]

It seems like 2x boost only works if you have Gohan as a SSJ against Dabura. SSJ2 Gohan is trash on Buu Arc, even SSJ Gohan's Kamehameha is stronger than him.

 

[ahill1]

But SSJ2 Gohan is too close to SSJ Goku... Ow, headache. God, i wish P was here too.

Yeah, that's the problem I was having too when trying to give Gohan a rage boost. I was also going with 2.5x to the rage boost. They'd be even more close together if you increased the rage boost. With 3 times we'd have something like:

Gohan SSJ (Cell Games): 200
~SSJ2: 600

Goku SSJ (Boo saga): 330
~SSJ2: 660

Then Boo saga Gohan would have to be like Cell Games Gohan's equal to be decently above SSJ Goku. There's nothing objectively preventing them from being close, but it just doesn't look nice to us, apparently.

I suggested that the rage boost + SSJ2 Gohan be at 3x because that's the multiplier I get for SSJ2 when working with Perfect Cell's power up to FP being ~ SSJG2's boost and Gohan's SSJ2 advantage over FP Perfect Cell being bigger than Vegeta SSJ advantage over #19.

I remember P had the SSJ2 multiplier as bigger than 2x (like 2.5x) and had the rage boost making Gohan 3x above his normal SSJ in the Cell Games.


Gohan SSJ (Cell Games): 200
~SSJ2: 600

Goku SSJ (Boo saga): 264
~SSJ2: 660

That'd kind of solve the problem we were having, in which Gohan in the Boo saga could be decently lower than his Cell Games self and yet >> Goku SSJ as a SSJ2.

 

[GSM123]

Those sounds pretty good too. SSJ Vegeta could be a 200 and Gohan something like 160.

But tbh i think i'll keep a 3x multiplier. It doesn't seem right to have SSJ2 = SSJG2 IMO. SSJ2 should be at least = Initial Grade 3.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Super Buu wasn't said to have a monster power up man.

 

[GSM123]

Super Buu wasn't said to have a monster power up man.

Say this to .

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

He didn't actually implied nor said that, it's the PL Purists that claim shits. A huge power up like you claim will always be imply like this

Chapter: 294 (DBZ 100), P14.1
Context: as Freeza powers up
Piccolo: “That large ki has become even more absurdly large! Is this ‘Freeza’ finally starting to move?!”

Chapter: 295 (DBZ 101), P8.4
Context: still as Freeza powers up
Kuririn: “Wh-what ki…Th-there’s no way we can win…”
Freeza: “Naturally…Did you really think that 3 ants could win against a dinosaur?”

 

[GSM123]

He didn't actually implied nor said that, it's the PL Purists that claim shits. A huge power up like you claim will always be imply like this

Chapter: 294 (DBZ 100), P14.1
Context: as Freeza powers up
Piccolo: “That large ki has become even more absurdly large! Is this ‘Freeza’ finally starting to move?!”

Chapter: 295 (DBZ 101), P8.4
Context: still as Freeza powers up
Kuririn: “Wh-what ki…Th-there’s no way we can win…”
Freeza: “Naturally…Did you really think that 3 ants could win against a dinosaur?”

Serious talk now. Besides no power up statement, it's implied he powered up, since Piccolo got desesperated and put the Kids on the Rosat, while SSJ Gotenks could do the job. This fucking +50x boost is just a haxed experiment.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Buu didn't powered up against Base Gotenks at all. Piccolo thought Initial Super Buu ~ Base Gotenks but it turned out Initial Super Buu > Base Gotenks. Buu didn't powered up at all until he ripped off the dimension. If anything, the whole fight is completely a gag that shouldn't be taken seriously. Gotenks learned a lot of moves and SSjin3 and powered up but not much.

 

[GSM123]

Buu didn't powered up against Base Gotenks at all. Piccolo thought Initial Super Buu ~ Base Gotenks but it turned out Initial Super Buu > Base Gotenks. Buu didn't powered up at all until he ripped off the dimension. If anything, the whole fight is completely a gag that shouldn't be taken seriously. Gotenks learned a lot of moves and SSjin3 and powered up but not much.

Power ups don't need to have auras. Final form Freeza's power ups had no aura, and same Cell's power up to own Vegeta. Why the fight is gag? This is a lame excuse. He did power up, and a lot. Piccolo thought he has chance with someone who would beat SSJ Gotenks.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Power up was always stated or implied most of the time.

In Freeza's case:

Chapter: 304 (DBZ 110), P8.3
Context: after Freeza finishes his final transformation
Piccolo: “Wh-what an absurdly large ki….!”

Vegeta didn't have a chance against Freeza before their fight even begins. He's just delusional that he was a Super Saiyan therefore that makes him the strongest by default.

Chapter: 304 (DBZ 110), P10.5-6
Context: after Dende heals him
Vegeta: “Freeza’s battle power…! So he’s finally shown his true form, huh?...Well, I don’t care if Freeza or anyone else comes at me…! I’ve just now become a Super Saiyan…!”

Chapter: 305 (DBZ 111), P13.4
Context: Vegeta can’t follow Freeza’s movement
Freeza: “I get just a little serious and raise my speed, and it seems that you can’t keep up with me…Are you really a Super Saiyan?...”
Vegeta: “Im-impossible…”

Freeza raises a litle effort and speed something that Buu didn't do at all against Gotenks.

Here, before Vegeta fought Perfect Cell, Krillin told Trunks that Vegeta doesn't stand a chance against Cell.

Chapter: 383 (DBZ 189), P4.8, P5.1, P6.1
Context: after saying Vegeta will be killed by Cell
Kuririn: “It-it’s true that I’m absolutely nothing special compared to you Saiyans…B-but I can at least tell how strong my opponent is…”

There's no need for them to power up with their aura but the GOAT Toriyama will always implied it.

 

[GSM123]

Power up was always stated or implied most of the time.

In Freeza's case:

Chapter: 304 (DBZ 110), P8.3
Context: after Freeza finishes his final transformation
Piccolo: “Wh-what an absurdly large ki….!”

Vegeta didn't have a chance against Freeza before their fight even begins. He's just delusional that he was a Super Saiyan therefore that makes him the strongest by default.

Chapter: 304 (DBZ 110), P10.5-6
Context: after Dende heals him
Vegeta: “Freeza’s battle power…! So he’s finally shown his true form, huh?...Well, I don’t care if Freeza or anyone else comes at me…! I’ve just now become a Super Saiyan…!”

Chapter: 305 (DBZ 111), P13.4
Context: Vegeta can’t follow Freeza’s movement
Freeza: “I get just a little serious and raise my speed, and it seems that you can’t keep up with me…Are you really a Super Saiyan?...”
Vegeta: “Im-impossible…”

Freeza raises a litle effort and speed something that Buu didn't do at all against Gotenks.

Here, before Vegeta fought Perfect Cell, Krillin told Trunks that Vegeta doesn't stand a chance against Cell.

Chapter: 383 (DBZ 189), P4.8, P5.1, P6.1
Context: after saying Vegeta will be killed by Cell
Kuririn: “It-it’s true that I’m absolutely nothing special compared to you Saiyans…B-but I can at least tell how strong my opponent is…”

There's no need for them to power up with their aura but the GOAT Toriyama will always implied it.

It's also implied Super Buu powered up. Piccolo thought Super Buu was ~ Gotenks and ended up to be > SSJ Gotenks, and Piccolo is not trash on Ki sensing. Gotenks and Piccolo were also in awe of Buu's power when he started to scream, and that was before the portal was opened.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

The multiplier for Cell's power weighted form should be larger.

-Buffed Trunks was stated by Cell to be stronger ''by a wide margin''. I'll put that gap at 1.2x
-Buffed Cell was implied, by Piccolo's reaction, to be above Buffed Trunks, so his multiplier for that
buffing should be at least 1.33x
-Power Weighted Cell (Gohan) was a lot more buffed than what he had shown against Trunks, so
the multiplier here must be a lot greater. I'll put it at 1.75x

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Power up was always stated or implied most of the time.

In Freeza's case:

Chapter: 304 (DBZ 110), P8.3
Context: after Freeza finishes his final transformation
Piccolo: “Wh-what an absurdly large ki….!”

Vegeta didn't have a chance against Freeza before their fight even begins. He's just delusional that he was a Super Saiyan therefore that makes him the strongest by default.

Chapter: 304 (DBZ 110), P10.5-6
Context: after Dende heals him
Vegeta: “Freeza’s battle power…! So he’s finally shown his true form, huh?...Well, I don’t care if Freeza or anyone else comes at me…! I’ve just now become a Super Saiyan…!”

Chapter: 305 (DBZ 111), P13.4
Context: Vegeta can’t follow Freeza’s movement
Freeza: “I get just a little serious and raise my speed, and it seems that you can’t keep up with me…Are you really a Super Saiyan?...”
Vegeta: “Im-impossible…”

Freeza raises a litle effort and speed something that Buu didn't do at all against Gotenks.

Here, before Vegeta fought Perfect Cell, Krillin told Trunks that Vegeta doesn't stand a chance against Cell.

Chapter: 383 (DBZ 189), P4.8, P5.1, P6.1
Context: after saying Vegeta will be killed by Cell
Kuririn: “It-it’s true that I’m absolutely nothing special compared to you Saiyans…B-but I can at least tell how strong my opponent is…”

There's no need for them to power up with their aura but the GOAT Toriyama will always implied it.

It's also implied Super Buu powered up. Piccolo thought Super Buu was ~ Gotenks and ended up to be > SSJ Gotenks, and Piccolo is not trash on Ki sensing. Gotenks and Piccolo were also in awe of Buu's power when he started to scream, and that was before the portal was opened.

The problem is that Gotenks told Buu not to do anything until he say so and Buu was standing there doing nothing at all. The fight was completely a gag fight and hell, even Toriyama admitted that.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

The fight was completely a gag fight and hell, even Toriyama admitted that.

So, AT admitted that SSJ Gotenks pre> Base Gotenks post?

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

The fight was completely a gag fight and hell, even Toriyama admitted that.

So, AT admitted that SSJ Gotenks pre> Base Gotenks post?

No, he admitted the whole fight was a gag scene.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

The fight was completely a gag fight and hell, even Toriyama admitted that.

So, AT admitted that SSJ Gotenks pre> Base Gotenks post?

No, he admitted the whole fight was a gag scene.

Which is a way of admitting that SSJ pre>Base post?

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

So, AT admitted that SSJ Gotenks pre> Base Gotenks post?

No, he admitted the whole fight was a gag scene.

Which is a way of admitting that SSJ pre>Base post?

Mr. Satan is millions of times stronger than a human then.