[mention]CroMagnumDVH[/mention]
I'd prefer to keep the discussion here so other people can give their take. Hopefully this won't be an issue.
1) Inconsistency in comparison to other pieces of evidences.
2) Goku was holding back, since Goku transforms for absolutely no reason multiple times
3) As you said, Goku just wanted to go Ssj3 to surprise Trunks that there's a form beyond Ssj2.
Such instances are shown. Goku fights Krillin in base form, goes Ssj, then goes SsjB. Was there any need for SsjB? Not at all. Goku flared his Aura against Roshi, was that needed? Not at all. The theme here is that Goku was testing Trunks's power, and not looking for a long fight[/quote]
But it wouldn't have been a long fight if Goku was holding-back as much as you believe. If he could've one-shotted Trunks in Super Saiyan 3, there would've been no reason to go Super Saiyan God. He didn't even demonstrate the form to Trunks; he just immediately transformed and reverted. With Roshi and Krillin, we know for a fact neither one of them were actually in his range of power since nothing suggests that they were. Whis says Trunks and Goku are comparable, so the approach wouldn't be the same.
Goku was sparring, and sparring means fighting someone while throwing light attacks with bare effort. Trunks has showed all of his power to Goku, but Goku is the only one who suggested the sparring match and they don't usually take time
That's not how sparring is really utilized in the DBZ world. Trunks said Vegeta knew sparring was a more effective way of training than doing it alone. Goku said the training in the rosat would be halted until Gohan became a worthwhile sparring partner as a Super Saiyan. Based on the gains both duos made, we can conclude that it wasn't from throwing light attacks with hardly no effort. Goku and Trunks' fight looked intense enough for a sparring session.
1) Goku was holding back. Because It's a sparring match, Goku isn't in need of taking things seriously, but contrary to that, Trunks powered up to full power while Goku was not stated to have done any such thing in any form. Similarly, when trunks took a senzu bean and was completely healed, he attacked Goku in a Bloodlusted manner (bloodlust usually makes the person stronger than they normally are) yet Goku causally stops Trunks in just his Base form.
Trunks' power-up is handled in a different way than Goku's. We saw Goku become a Super Saiyan 3 against Beerus, Trunks, #17, and Toppo. There was never a further power-up performed in any of these instances, so he was assumed to be at Full-Power in those forms. Goku not doing any additional power-up against Trunks certainly shouldn't be a point against him not being at his highest level--especially when it isn't something he actually does.
Trunks had just woke up and blindly attacked. The fact that Goku was so surprised at how much Trunks improved shows that his punch wasn't a good indication of his power. He only realized how strong Trunks had become after seeing him in Super Saiyan 2.
2) The match is unreliable. What I mean is that we can't extract any claim from this match because for all we know, Goku would have not been serious since it's a sparring match, therefore making any claim unreliable. The difference between this claim and claim number 1 is that Number 1 shows that goku was holding back and trunks wasn't, while 2 concentrates more on effort rather than just power, and since sparring matches aren't the basis for these, it's a hard take.
I don't see a reason why Trunks needs to be super serious and Goku doesn't. Goku was the one who decided to go up a level to show Trunks what was beyond Super Saiyan 2...and then go further just to win the match. All Trunks did was react to the situation and power-up accordingly. With the way he ended the fight, he never intended to show Trunks Super Saiyan God. It's just something he did to avoid continuing with the fight.
There's so much wrong though. You're under the assumption that a Ssj2 character can't suppress himself below a Ssj character but that's completely wrong. Goku suppressed himself as a SsjB against Krillin less than his base arguably since Krillin's Kamehameha held its own against Goku's Kamehameha. Goku's SsjB Kamehameha against Kale was also dealt like child's play yet later on, Mastered Kale is a bit above Ssj2 Goku.
Super Saiyan Blue is a form stated to have perfect Chi-control. Using it at a level far below its natural levels makes sense. What that form can do doesn't necessarily correlate with his other Super Saiyan forms. And there's still no explanation as to why Goku would suppress himself that low for Trunks. No one ever makes a comment hinting at it.
You'd have to assume that Ssj2 Goku is always above Ssj Goku, but obviously that's wrong and shown to be wrong multiple times.
When the forms are used in a certain order to demonstrate power, it is. Was Super Saiyan 2 above Super Saiyan when Goku showed the forms to Bobbidi? Was Super Saiyan 2 above Super Saiyan when Goku was fighting Beerus? Was Super Saiyan 2 above Super Saiyan when Goku was fighting Toppo? Was Super Saiyan 3 above Super Saiyan 2 when Goku was fighting #17? The answer to all of those is "yes". I do not understand why things need to be changed entirely because of Trunks. If you follow the sequence of events in the mentioned battles, the proceeding form is demonstrated to show display more power.
The purpose of Trunks showing his Full Power Ssj2 form is to show us that he trained hard and that Ssj3 Transformation isn't a surprise for him power wise, not Goku's power itself.
If it isn't a surprise for him power-wise, then it means he's wielding Super Saiyan 3 like power as a Super Saiyan 2. Super Saiyan 3 Goku holding-back is still stronger than his Super Saiyan 2. If Trunks is as strong as a holding-back Super Saiyan 3 Goku, he's still above Super Saiyan 2 Goku. We're never given any reason to believe Goku is using an absurd low amount of power anywhere. The entire sequence would be pointless otherwise.
Whis knows how strong Goku is and he's impressed that Trunks is slightly better. Vegeta knows how strong Goku is and makes it clear that Trunks is equal to Super Saiyan 3 Goku. If Goku was holding-back so much that he wouldn't really be above Super Saiyan 2 at that point, it completely defeats the purpose of the scene. Entirely. There's literally no reason to assume everyone is stupid and comparing Trunks to a super half-assed Goku barely using any power. It wasn't Goku's point to show off level 3's cool hair; it was to show the existence of a transformation that was above Super Saiyan 2.
The intention has nothing to do with Trunks being anywhere near Goku
If the intention has nothing to do with Trunks being anywhere near Goku, why exactly would Toyo have this reiterated twice in the span of a few pages? Do you think he wanted to intentionally mislead the readers or something?
that actually breaks the entire logic of Base Vegeta being equivalent to Base Goku From the very start of the Black arc and they would not be called rivals at all if there is such a difference
That's because you believe every single transformation's improvement is reliant on how far their Bases become. Trunks didn't think Super Saiyan 3 was possible, so he developed a Super Saiyan 3 like boost to his Super Saiyan 2. None of that requires his Base to be anything special. The only part of Trunks that received a substantial improvement to compensate for the lack of a transformation was his Super Saiyan 2. If anything, that puts the emphasis on his Super Saiyan 2 being powered-up rather than his Base.
As for Black:
The Super Saiyan form itself is more powerful.
If it was a simple deduction of a greater Base-->greater Super Saiyan, none of this would've been surprising. He already said Black hadn't used Super Saiyan in awhile, so the only conclusion is that Black no longer felt it was necessary to deal with Trunks because his Base got to a point where it was enough.
Using the multipliers as a stand point, Base Vegeta would be at around Ssj3 Goku's level, which is a complete anomaly and has never been portrayed like that, and this breaks the point of them being rivals.
That's where we differ. You're using multipliers to determine how or why things have to play out a certain way. All that does is add a restrictive outlook to the storytelling imo. Our approaches are exactly why we won't see things in the same way. That's just the reality of things.
Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta back in Battle of Gods already showed us he could greatly exceed Super Saiyan 3 Goku despite being in a lesser form. That paved the way for Full-Power Super Saiyan 2 Trunks matching Super Saiyan 3 Goku. The examples are there to show us that every form doesn't need to align in order to show a difference in power. Base Trunks was regarded as anything special, but his Super Saiyan 2 was.
This sparring match makes it seem that Base Trunks > Base Goku but the opposite is shown. That's why this is either an inconsistency, Goku was holding back, or it's just unreliable due to being a sparring match
Well, you made mention of Base Goku easily stopping bloodlusted Base Trunks' punch. The fact that Trunks' significant improvement only became apparent in his Super Saiyan 2 is further proof that their Base really doesn't signify any changes they've made. At least not on a regular basis. It's exactly why Black laughed at Vegeta and said he appeared to be no different than before when he showed back up in the future. Same happened in the Boo saga when Vegeta only became aware of Goku's superiority after he used Super Saiyan 2, which was a shock to him.
Had Goku's Base and Super Saiyan perfectly aligned with his Super Saiyan 2, it makes no sense for Vegeta to be as surprised as he was. The same difference would've applied in every form. Basically, if none of their power-up's are really apparent in Base, chances are it isn't all that conducive to the power gains they make. The answer lies in their transformations.
My evidence comes in using Multiplier basis, Goku and Vegeta vs Merged Zamasu and how they're portrayed as equivalent if not Goku being above Vegeta, how their base forms are portrayed as equals, how Vegeta implies that he has never surpassed Goku by any notable gap, why Trunks's battle with Goku isn't reliable, why Goku is above Trunks despite Trunks being implied to have gotten stronger, and why such difference has never been affirmed at all.
Their Base forms can be equal. Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta being above Super Saiyan 3 Goku wouldn't change the fact that Complete Super Saiyan Blue Goku would still be the stronger of the two. Vegeta still being a step behind remains a fact. When going by Battle of Gods, Vegeta aimed to surpass Goku (who attained Super Saiyan God) despite greatly surpassing his Super Saiyan 3 beforehand. The lesser forms simply didn't matter anymore because there was a higher level to reach for.
That just means that Base form Vegeta got stronger. Ssj2 is a 2x Ssj multiplier, and nothing went against this. Vegeta getting a boost means his base form has just gotten stronger as well, but he just recieved it from his Ssj2 Form but it also means it'll affect his Base form too. Vegeta in BoG is not shown to have maintained that Power, and saying he did or not would be an Appeal to probability fallacy. So that scene isn't something used to affirm a case.
If we're never given a reason to assume it was a temporary boost, the only suggestion would be that he kept it. There wasn't a Raditz statement that noted he returned to normal or anything. Furthermore, if the Black saga shows him dominating a powered-up Super Saiyan Black that's way above his Base (that's already above Full-Power Super Saiyan 2 Trunks), we have reason to believe his Super Saiyan 2 is just that powerful.
Again, it just means he has gotten stronger in base form as well which makes Base Trunks above the ordinary. Base Saiyans have been shown to surpass their previous Ssj selves, and therefore your explanation is not evidence for that.
If Base Trunks is an outlier that goes against the usual, and Vegeta is shown to be way above that, it means there's no rule within the story that enforces a strict adherence of Base-->Super Saiyan forms. It may not make sense based on power-scaling and multipliers, but the story very much shows this to be the case. Once Trunks told Goku that his power was still nothing to Black, Goku went from believing Black would've been easy peasy to thinking they might be in for some trouble. If anything, that reaction alone goes against the idea of him holding-back as much as you seem to believe.
As for Base Saiyans surpassing their Super Saiyan levels prior, that's only if you don't take what Beerus has to say in consideration. Other than that, it'd be something that only happened once God Power was introduced.
