SSJ3 Goku and Fat Buu's power

[GSM123]

When Fat Buu first appears, he's a total joke to Vegeta and Gohan says he could beat him with his full power. So SSJ2 Gohan >= Fat Buu.

Fat Buu does a 1st power up to fight, and with that power he two shots Dabura and effortlessy beats down SSJ(2) Gohan and Kaioshin, and makes Vegeta accept to team up with Goku. Fat Buu >~ SSJ2 Goku and Majin Vegeta.

After this, i got totally lost. He does and extra power up to fight Vegeta, but got his ass landed to him. Once he get angry, he does and explosion and totally screws Vegeta and badly stomps him, but does not one shot him. Then Vegeta kills himself and destroy Buu. After that no power up is implied and he fights a holding back SSJ3 Goku, who manhandle him but he somewhat is able to fight back.

So, is Fat Buu not much stronger than the SSJ2s? Since SSJ3 Goku is usually a 4-5x multiplier and Goku later admited he was holding back, was Goku holding back that massively to half or even less of his power?

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Chapter: 461 (DBZ 267), P3.5-7
Context: after Kaioshin says they must run from Boo
Gohan: “…Is that so?...He really does have tremendous ki, but…It doesn’t seem like so much so that there’s nothing I can do…[ ] …If I can only put out all of my true power…”

Chapter: 461 (DBZ 267), P4.6, P5.4-6
Goku: “It’s a ki…! A huge ki has appeared…! Majin Boo has finally come out…”
Vegeta: “Fuffuffuh…Majin Boo, huh?...Here I was wondering what kind of amazing guy he would be, and he’s got this kind of battle power number?...I thought so…Kakarot, you and I have now become too strong…By a wide margin! By his nature, Kaioshin is supposed to be someone tremendous, but have you ever once thought that he was incredible? Quite the opposite, it's Kaioshin who’s been bewildered…Majin Boo is fearsome from Kaioshin’s perspective, but from ours he’s not so much…”
Goku: “N-no…That’s not it…There’s something abnormal about this ki...”

SSjin2 [Individual] > Fat Boo

Chapter: 462 (DBZ 268), P1.2-4, P2.5
Context: after Boo beats Dabra
Gohan: “It-it rose…Majin Boo’s ki rose explosively…He’s str-strong…Too strong…This is unbelievable…”
Trunks: “…What the…!? This time I feel an incredible ki over there too…What’s going on?...”
[ ]
Goku (talking to Vegeta): “…It changed into an outrageous ki…So Majin Boo really isn’t anyone ordinary after all…This ain’t no time to be doing this kinda thing…! We’re the ones who let this monster out…”

Fat Boo 1st power up > SSjin2 (Individual)

Chapter: 462 (DBZ 268), P4.3
Context: Vegeta says he'll help Goku fight Boo
Goku: “We’ll definitely be able to defeat Majin Boo if we all do it together.”

All SSjin2 tiers > 1st Fat Boo power up

Chapter: 464 (DBZ 270), P11.6
Context: after Vegeta insults Boo and he lets steam out of his head
Kuririn: “Hey…That monstrous bastard’s ki got even huger.”

The fight shows Vegeta beating up Boo even though Boo wasn't even trying to defend himself so it is safe to say that he let Vegeta hit himself.

Chapter: 466 (DBZ 272), P1.3
Context: after Boo’s big attack makes a crater
Vegeta: “…Wh-what the?...Ridiculous; he’s st-strong, and to top it off immortal too…Damn it all…”

Chapter: 469 (DBZ 275), P5.6-7
Goku: “Damn it! If either Vegeta or Gohan were alive, maybe we could have managed something…”
Piccolo: “…No, it probably wouldn’t matter how many people went at him…He wasn’t at that level…”

Boo 3rd power up > SSjin2 tiers

 

[withheldforprivacy]

The only real evidence Fat Buu has to be manyfold above SSJ2s is that, even after he
lost most of his power to Grey Buu, he still seemed stronger than SSJ2s. However, the
way the split worked is up to interpretation. Personally, i'm not against Fat Buu being
like 1.5x SSJ2s and SSJ3 being like 1.75x-2x a boost.

 

[GSM123]

Chapter: 461 (DBZ 267), P3.5-7
Context: after Kaioshin says they must run from Boo
Gohan: “…Is that so?...He really does have tremendous ki, but…It doesn’t seem like so much so that there’s nothing I can do…[ ] …If I can only put out all of my true power…”

Chapter: 461 (DBZ 267), P4.6, P5.4-6
Goku: “It’s a ki…! A huge ki has appeared…! Majin Boo has finally come out…”
Vegeta: “Fuffuffuh…Majin Boo, huh?...Here I was wondering what kind of amazing guy he would be, and he’s got this kind of battle power number?...I thought so…Kakarot, you and I have now become too strong…By a wide margin! By his nature, Kaioshin is supposed to be someone tremendous, but have you ever once thought that he was incredible? Quite the opposite, it's Kaioshin who’s been bewildered…Majin Boo is fearsome from Kaioshin’s perspective, but from ours he’s not so much…”
Goku: “N-no…That’s not it…There’s something abnormal about this ki...”

SSjin2 [Individual] > Fat Boo

Chapter: 462 (DBZ 268), P1.2-4, P2.5
Context: after Boo beats Dabra
Gohan: “It-it rose…Majin Boo’s ki rose explosively…He’s str-strong…Too strong…This is unbelievable…”
Trunks: “…What the…!? This time I feel an incredible ki over there too…What’s going on?...”
[ ]
Goku (talking to Vegeta): “…It changed into an outrageous ki…So Majin Boo really isn’t anyone ordinary after all…This ain’t no time to be doing this kinda thing…! We’re the ones who let this monster out…”

Fat Boo 1st power up > SSjin2 (Individual)

Chapter: 462 (DBZ 268), P4.3
Context: Vegeta says he'll help Goku fight Boo
Goku: “We’ll definitely be able to defeat Majin Boo if we all do it together.”

All SSjin2 tiers > 1st Fat Boo power up

Chapter: 464 (DBZ 270), P11.6
Context: after Vegeta insults Boo and he lets steam out of his head
Kuririn: “Hey…That monstrous bastard’s ki got even huger.”

The fight shows Vegeta beating up Boo even though Boo wasn't even trying to defend himself so it is safe to say that he let Vegeta hit himself.

Chapter: 466 (DBZ 272), P1.3
Context: after Boo’s big attack makes a crater
Vegeta: “…Wh-what the?...Ridiculous; he’s st-strong, and to top it off immortal too…Damn it all…”

Chapter: 469 (DBZ 275), P5.6-7
Goku: “Damn it! If either Vegeta or Gohan were alive, maybe we could have managed something…”
Piccolo: “…No, it probably wouldn’t matter how many people went at him…He wasn’t at that level…”

Boo 3rd power up > SSjin2 tiers

So, his last power up was the one he used to fight Vegeta, and the explosion he made to break Vegeta's arm was only him getting serious, right? It seems like Goku really was suppressed. Buu seems to be at best 1.5-1.66x stronger due to Vegeta's resilience, and that's overrating the gap, but the gap between him and Goku was something like 1.25x, something too low for a SSJ3 multiplier.

The only real evidence Fat Buu has to be manyfold above SSJ2s is that, even after he
lost most of his power to Grey Buu, he still seemed stronger than SSJ2s. However, the
way the split worked is up to interpretation. Personally, i'm not against Fat Buu being
like 1.5x SSJ2s and SSJ3 being like 1.75x-2x a boost.

Mr Buu really doesn't seem to be above the other SSJs. He actually only lasted more than Vegeta due to regeneration, Vegeta damaged Pure Buu much more.

 

[Pyro]

Goku manhandled Boo? The fight didn't show that in the manga. Boo was able to hold his own very well.

I think people are a little bogged down by this inane idea that Goku could hold back power in Super Saiyan 3. I mean, what are we - apes?!

The fight wasn't one-sided in the slightest and I basically exert a giggle whenever I see someone claim Goku "owned" Boo or was "clearly the one in charge." The fight itself shows differently.

~ Goku charges in and starts pounding on Boo by holding onto his penistentacle.
~ Boo immediately recovers from this and re-enters the fight.
~ Boo shoots a volley of ki blasts that Goku is initially shocked by but deflects them all anyway. At this point Goku admits he didn't hurt Boo "at all" and, come on, he doesn't look happy in the slightest about that.
~ Boo uses his extendability to punch Goku, which Goku is forced back a few feet by (much more than Cell's punch on SSj2 Gohan) but smiles at. Boo then smiles too.
~ Goku wallops Boo and Boo wallops Goku.
~ Goku fires a Kamehameha that Boo regenerates from quickly. Boo smiles afterward.
~ Boo fires his own Kamehameha that Goku deflects into some mountains.
~ That's pretty much the end of the fight.

One thing to note about the fight is that aside from the very end and after Goku was punched by Boo's extended arm, nowhere was Goku smiling or appearing to be taking the fight lightly. He has a serious look on his face except for during the aforementioned bits. He was punched even further away by Boo's wallop than he got Boo with his own. He uses visible effort to knock away Boo's Kamehameha, and is gritting his teeth afterward unlike Boo who's got a cheesy grin on his face; Boo is grinning when his Kamehameha explodes while Goku is angered (saying "Curse him!"). Neither of them were fighting to the death, which is cemented when they both admit the fight was enjoyable, but to say they were both "fooling around" or even worse, that just Goku was pulling his punches and lollygagging for Trunks' sake, is quite disagreeable; if anything, Boo looked to be having a boatload more fun than Goku. They're both putting in effort and if one must be assigned the advantaged party, it's Goku, but not by any measurable length as the fight absolutely did not portray him with such a gap.

Goku admitted he could've beaten Boo, of course, but their actual fight should be taken into account when pondering how easily he truly could've accomplished this feat.

For me the gap is there but it isn't spacious. It's just enough to fit Pure Boo in between Fatty and SSj3 Goku, and that's it. It's not a "stomping gap" by any means.

 

[GSM123]

Goku manhandled Boo? The fight didn't show that in the manga. Boo was able to hold his own very well.

I think people are a little bogged down by this inane idea that Goku could hold back power in Super Saiyan 3. I mean, what are we - apes?!

The fight wasn't one-sided in the slightest and I basically exert a giggle whenever I see someone claim Goku "owned" Boo or was "clearly the one in charge." The fight itself shows differently.

~ Goku charges in and starts pounding on Boo by holding onto his penistentacle.
~ Boo immediately recovers from this and re-enters the fight.
~ Boo shoots a volley of ki blasts that Goku is initially shocked by but deflects them all anyway. At this point Goku admits he didn't hurt Boo "at all" and, come on, he doesn't look happy in the slightest about that.
~ Boo uses his extendability to punch Goku, which Goku is forced back a few feet by (much more than Cell's punch on SSj2 Gohan) but smiles at. Boo then smiles too.
~ Goku wallops Boo and Boo wallops Goku.
~ Goku fires a Kamehameha that Boo regenerates from quickly. Boo smiles afterward.
~ Boo fires his own Kamehameha that Goku deflects into some mountains.
~ That's pretty much the end of the fight.

One thing to note about the fight is that aside from the very end and after Goku was punched by Boo's extended arm, nowhere was Goku smiling or appearing to be taking the fight lightly. He has a serious look on his face except for during the aforementioned bits. He was punched even further away by Boo's wallop than he got Boo with his own. He uses visible effort to knock away Boo's Kamehameha, and is gritting his teeth afterward unlike Boo who's got a cheesy grin on his face; Boo is grinning when his Kamehameha explodes while Goku is angered (saying "Curse him!"). Neither of them were fighting to the death, which is cemented when they both admit the fight was enjoyable, but to say they were both "fooling around" or even worse, that just Goku was pulling his punches and lollygagging for Trunks' sake, is quite disagreeable; if anything, Boo looked to be having a boatload more fun than Goku. They're both putting in effort and if one must be assigned the advantaged party, it's Goku, but not by any measurable length as the fight absolutely did not portray him with such a gap.

Goku admitted he could've beaten Boo, of course, but their actual fight should be taken into account when pondering how easily he truly could've accomplished this feat.

For me the gap is there but it isn't spacious. It's just enough to fit Pure Boo in between Fatty and SSj3 Goku, and that's it. It's not a "stomping gap" by any means.

I think "manhandle" wasn't the right word to use, but what i mean is that Goku had an advantage, but i even noticed minor details that implie the gap was smaller like Buu punching Goku further and the expressions they did.

And why wouldn't Goku be able to hold back his power? Is flat out showed he wasn't all out at Kid Buu and him bwing able to beat Fat Buu but Piccolo not being sure of that implies to me he was suppressed. But by how much? The same Buu who gave him a good fight couldn't one shot a SSJ2, a feat i can see a SSJ3 doing effortlessy.

 

[ahill1]

Initial fat Boo --> Is considered a joke to Vegeta, who laughs at the idea of fat Boo being this supposedly terrible enemy. Goku does note something strange about fat Boo's chi, to which Vegeta replies as "cut this shit out, you are not getting off of this fight". Gohan thinks that Boo doesn't seem so strong to the point where he can't do anything if he was able to put forth his true ability.

Initial fat Boo ~ Gohan SSJ2 < Majin Vegeta SSJ2 = Goku SSJ2


Boo (1st powered up) --> he quickly replies to Dabura's provocation and powers up, making Vegeta reconsider his thoughts about Boo, clearly treating him with more respect. Goku says it's still a power they can handle fighting together, so 1st power up fat Boo isn't tremendously stronger than SSJ2 Goku and Majin Vegeta.

initial fat Boo ~ Gohan SSJ2 < Majin Vegeta SSJ2 = Goku SSJ2 < fat Boo (1st power up) < Goku + Vegeta


2nd power up fat Boo --> Vegeta arrives on the battle field, a bit convinced that he would have to die to take down fat Boo, saying "I am not going to hell alone" or something to that effect. He taunts Boo, who replies back powering up again. Vegeta goes directly to the offensive and attacks Boo in a row, who doesn't defend himself and quickly regenerates, smiling at all of Vegeta's attempts.

initial fat Boo ~ Gohan SSJ2 < Majin Vegeta SSJ2 = Goku SSJ2 < fat Boo (1st power up) < fat Boo (2nd power up)



Huge explosion fat Boo --> Then fat Boo makes that huge explosion in a moment of fury towards Vegeta's finger attack, and his power does shock everyone, with Piccolo stating that even Vegeta couldn't scratch him. Vegeta is injured and in awe of fat Boo's power. Piccolo also states that Boo wouldn't go down even if the three of them went at him together, meaning that huge explosion was also a power up and did put him in a different league from the SSJ2s.


initial fat Boo ~ Gohan SSJ2 < Majin Vegeta SSJ2 = Goku SSJ2 < fat Boo (1st power up) < fat Boo (2nd power up) < fat Boo (huge explosion)




Full power fat Boo --> After Goku shows off his powers as a SSJ3, fat Boo is forced to show his true worth (in fact, the title of the chapter is "Majin Boo begins to show his true worth"), which means fat Boo only showed his full power against SSJ3 Goku, and said power is enough to fight decently well with Goku SSJ3, whom apparently wasn't going all out.

initial fat Boo ~ Gohan SSJ2 < Majin Vegeta SSJ2 = Goku SSJ2 < fat Boo (1st power up) < fat Boo (2nd power up) < fat Boo (huge explosion) < fat Boo (vs SSJ3 Goku) <= Goku SSJ3 (not all out) < Goku SSJ3 (all out)


In numbers:


Fat Boo (initial) - 70
Goku/Majin Vegeta - 100
Fat Boo (1st power up) - 110
Fat Boo (2nd power up) - 120
Fat Boo (huge explosion) - 230
Fat Boo (full power/vs ssj3) - 320
Goku SSJ3 (vs fat Boo) - 350
Goku SSJ3 (full power) - 400

 

[Tapion]

Gohan never says he could beat Fat Boo(Initial), he implies that if he gets angry he might be able to manage something, which is not even close to "i could beat you"

Not to mention Teen Gohan(Angry) > SSJ2 Gohan

 

[Flame]

SS3 Goku>Buu 3rd Power Up>Buu 2nd Power up>Buu 1st Power up>SS2 Vegeta and Goku>Initial Buu>=SS2 Gohan

 

[withheldforprivacy]

How's that...

Adult SSJ2s- 100
SSJ2 Kid Gohan/Fat Buu (initial)- 85
Fat Buu (power up/Dabura)- 120
Fat Buu (power up/ Vegeta)- 150
Fat Buu (power up/ explosion)- 200
Fat Buu (max/ Goku)- 270
SSJ3 Goku- 300

 

[GSM123]

How's that...

Adult SSJ2s- 100
SSJ2 Kid Gohan/Fat Buu (initial)- 85
Fat Buu (power up/Dabura)- 120
Fat Buu (power up/ Vegeta)- 150
Fat Buu (power up/ explosion)- 200
Fat Buu (max/ Goku)- 270
SSJ3 Goku- 300

This is more or less what i have, but remeber what Tapion said 2 posts ago: Gohan said he can put up a fight if he gets enraged, not that he can beat Buu. I'd lowball Gohan to 60, he's foi close from Goku, who's way above Vegeta (Pre). I also not sure if SSJ3 Goku and Buu should be that close, it was a too short fight to show the gap, just like SSJ Goku vs Freeza.

 

[ahill1]

Gohan says that it doesn't seem like there's nothing he can do if he can access his true power. By "true power" he can mean 3 things imo:

1 --> his SSJ2; he was a SSJ and by showing his true power he just means tapping into his SSJ2;
2 --> his power from the Cell Games;
3 --> a power that it's neither his SSJ2 nor his Cell Games power.

If he meant 1, then fat Boo (initial) is ~ that power and <<< his Cell Games self. If he meant 2, then initial fat Boo ~ his Cell Games self. I am leaning towards 2 nowadays considering he showed his SSJ2 a while ago in the Budokai and it seemed no big deal. Therefore, initial fat Boo is ~ Cell Games SSJ2 Gohan, < to fit better with Vegeta finding Boo a laughing matter.

Whereas Vegeta finding Boo a laughing matter and still holding Cell Games Gohan in a high regard can indicate CG ssj2 Gohan >> fat Boo, I don't find it a need. Since the beginning Kaioshin made Majin Boo to be someone out of the Saiyans' reach and that they shouldn't dare to fight with, so I think him being any noticeable amount < Majin Vegeta would make him a laughing stock on his eyes.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

Vegeta was not majin yet when he made a big deal out of Cell Games Gohan.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Gohan says that it doesn't seem like there's nothing he can do if he can access his true power. By "true power" he can mean 3 things imo:

1 --> his SSJ2; he was a SSJ and by showing his true power he just means tapping into his SSJ2;
2 --> his power from the Cell Games;
3 --> a power that it's neither his SSJ2 nor his Cell Games power.

If he meant 1, then fat Boo (initial) is ~ that power and <<< his Cell Games self. If he meant 2, then initial fat Boo ~ his Cell Games self. I am leaning towards 2 nowadays considering he showed his SSJ2 a while ago in the Budokai and it seemed no big deal. Therefore, initial fat Boo is ~ Cell Games SSJ2 Gohan, < to fit better with Vegeta finding Boo a laughing matter.

Whereas Vegeta finding Boo a laughing matter and still holding Cell Games Gohan in a high regard can indicate CG ssj2 Gohan >> fat Boo, I don't find it a need. Since the beginning Kaioshin made Majin Boo to be someone out of the Saiyans' reach and that they shouldn't dare to fight with, so I think him being any noticeable amount < Majin Vegeta would make him a laughing stock on his eyes.

The power that Goku was talking about.

 

[ahill1]

I think Gohan's perspective of his power is different from Goku's. Goku said Gohan wouldn't lose to anyone if he cuts loose, while Gohan considers an opponent who was considered a joke to Vegeta to be ~ his power...

 

[Tapion]

I think Gohan's perspective of his power is different from Goku's. Goku said Gohan wouldn't lose to anyone if he cuts loose, while Gohan considers an opponent who was considered a joke to Vegeta to be ~ his power...

Gohan thought he was below Boo actually.

 

[Flame]

Pretty sure before Buu does any powering up Gohan says that at his full power he could take down Buu.

 

[Tapion]

He never said that.

 

[ahill1]

I think Gohan's perspective of his power is different from Goku's. Goku said Gohan wouldn't lose to anyone if he cuts loose, while Gohan considers an opponent who was considered a joke to Vegeta to be ~ his power...

Gohan thought he was below Boo actually.

I see "it doesn't seem like there's nothing I can do" as it being a power he can manage something against, which can work with ~ imo. Besises, I said ~, which means more "in the same general level". Saibaiman ~ Raditz, for example.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

So a question, do you guys see Goku and Buu as rivals in terms of power?