t0sh's Db Super Analysis =D

[kriss-]

I only came back here to get your opinions on some of my shit. Pojo is a wasteland.

The Basics

Organic Frieza > Goku Base (Db Super/Boo Saga)

I'm going to post several scans for different characters to show how they either increases or decreased in strength.

Piccolo

At times when there are no battles, or on days off, what sorts of things do the warriors do?
Goku, Vegeta, and Piccolo train; Gohan studies;

Goku & Vegeta

Why did you set the story’s time frame after the defeat of Majin Boo?
It’s when all the members [of the cast] were at their strongest, so I thought it was just right. If it were at the time of the final chapter, Goku would be heading off somewhere with Oob, after all.

Goten, Trunks & Gotenks

1. Boo, Mister [#BO4#BOO#GOO]
Chapter: 519 (DBZ 325), P1.3
Context: after Goten and Boo are matched up in the tournament's first round
Goten: “Th-that can’t be! How can I go up against Boo right in the first round?!”
Goku: “It’s only a problem because you keep slacking off in your training.”

Even as far as End of Z goes, the boys are simply slacking off with their training, it doesn't mean they aren't training. They should be the same as they were 10 years ago.

Gohan

At times when there are no battles, or on days off, what sorts of things do the warriors do?
Gohan studies;

Conclusively, the only person who was weaker from his Boo Saga counter-part was Gohan. After Boo's defeat, everybody was at their strongest, and we've no evidence that they've gotten any stronger.

Goku (Db Super) =/= Goku (Boo Saga)
Vegeta (Db Super) =/= Vegeta (Boo Saga)
Gotenks (Db Super) =/= Gotenks (Boo Saga)
Piccolo (Db Super) > Piccolo (Boo Saga)
Gohan (Boo Saga) > Gohan (Db Super)

The Beginning of Db Super

During the brief scuffle with Beerus, Gotenks tries to defeat him but is defeated after a single strike, whereas Vegeta was defeated without Beerus even having to move. However, Majin Boo did take a more tremendous beating and survived longer.

Mister Boo > Gotenks Base > Vegeta Ssj

Next, Gohan steps up but is also defeated. However, Piccolo's reaction makes it apparent that he was their best hope (without Goku) in beating Beerus. Additionally, Gohan still has his 'Ultimate' form, but he's probably weaker than his Boo Saga counter-part, but still stronger than Gotenks Ssj3 Post-ROST.

Ultimate Gohan (Boo Saga) > Ultimate Gohan (Db Super) > Mister Boo > Gotenks Base > Vegeta Ssj

Minute: 10
Context: After Beerus defeats angry Vegeta
Beerus: "It's been a long time since I've used 10% or so of my full strength. Well, this was more fun than with that Saiyan over at North Kaio's place."

This statement means Vegeta surpassed the next strongest fighter that Beerus had fought up until that point: Goku Ssj3. I do believe that the Ultimate Gohan from the Boo Saga was stronger than Goku, but he waned a bit and lapsed behind; he is however, still stronger than Gotenks Ssj3.

The Final Verdict For The Z-Fighters

Beerus 10% > Raging Vegeta > Ultimate Gohan (Boo Saga) > Goku Ssj3 (Boo Saga/Db Super) > Gotenks Ssj3 > Mister Boo > Gotenks Base > Vegeta Ssj > Piccolo > Android 18 > Tienshinhan

The Saiyan God versus Beerus The Destroyer

Minute: 7
Context: As SSG Goku and Beerus are fighting, Elder Kaioshin calls up North Kaio to complain about the battle.
Elder Kaioshin: "Don't you understand what will happen to this universe if Beerus-sama gets serious?"
Kaio: "Yeah, it's alright. Goku may have become Super Saiyan God, but even so, I don't think that'll be enough to get Beerus to fight seriously."

During Goku's initial transformation into Super Saiyan God, he now possesses the power to try and scuffle with Beerus. However he is unable to land a single strike on him.

Goku SSJG (Initial) > Beerus 10% > Raging Vegeta

Minute: 22
Context: After Beerus and SSG Goku have fought for most of the episode
Beerus: "It looks like you've mostly gotten used to the power of Super Saiyan God. As a result, I'm starting to enjoy this too."
Significance: In a nutshell, ep.10 is just Goku “breaking in” his SSG form so that he can really use the form to its full capacity. Beerus seems to go along with this, still not fighting Goku seriously and just trying to have an enjoyable fight.

Minute: 24
Goku: "I'm still not even close to serious."
Significance: As above, Goku has just spent the episode getting used to his new form and still isn’t giving the fight his all yet.

Goku is still getting used to his transformation and comments on how he can now see Beerus move.

Goku SSJG (Powering-Up) > Goku SSJG (Initial) > Beerus 10% > Raging Vegeta

Minute: 18-19
Context: Up in space or whatever, Beerus prepares to attack the Earth
Beeus: “Geez. I don’t really like giving meaning to destruction, but…this seems to be the only way to bring out your full power.”
Goku: “N-No way…S-Stop it!”
Beerus: “This is your fault.”
Goku: “Don’t you value human lives?”
Beerus: “This is a battle between gods. Compared to human lives, which is more important? The answer is obvious.”

Goku has to power up to his full power while in the SSJG transformation to repel the attack from Beerus. It is however, insufficient in combating him.

Goku SSJG (Full Power) > Goku SSJG (Powering-Up) > Goku SSJG (Initial) > Beerus 10% > Raging Vegeta

Minute: 18
Context: As Goku and Beerus punch each other a lot
Goku: “Beerus-sama, you really are incredible! The power of your punches is completely different than what it was five minutes ago!
Beerus: “Your power’s risen too, hasn’t it?”
*more fighting*
Beerus: “This is 100%!”
Goku: “I’m at 100% too!”

During some weird time after being stabbed, Goku receives some weird Zenkai and it makes his SSJG transformation even more powerful than it was before. My analogy regarding all of this is simple:

Beerus (100%) > Beerus (70%) > Goku SSJG (Zenkai) > Goku SSJG (Full Power) > Goku SSJG (Powering-Up) > Goku SSJG (Initial) > Beerus 10% > Raging Vegeta

Compared to Beerus, God of Destruction, how strong is [Super Saiyan] God?
I suppose if Beerus’ strength is a 10, [Super Saiyan] God would be right about 6.

Minute: 23
Context: Beerus points out to Goku that he’s no longer Super Saiyan God
When Whis learns Goku is no longer SSG he assumes Goku has no chance left

Whiss is the more experienced of all 3 fighters and the most acute with God energy. His words contradict Goku (who felt he didn't get weaker, but he probably just didn't notice it), but Beerus says Goku absorbed the energy into himself. Beerus doesn't credit Goku as having god tier energy until he momentarily transforms into one prior to their final clash. Conclusively, with EoZ being remembered, Goku's Base form has become weaker than his previous Ssj3 self from the Boo Saga. Why? Because Kid Boo already tooled Goku Ssj3 and than Mister Boo, but Mister Boo actually had a chance against EOZ Base Goku -whom continued to get stronger since losing the SSJG power.

Ultimate Gohan (Boo Saga) > Goku Ssj3 (Boo Saga) >= Kid Boo =/= Oob > Goku Base (EOZ) >= Mister Boo > Goku Base (Post-God)

Minute: 15
Context: Whis declines to take Vegeta to Beerus. Vegeta readies himself with the intention of using force, however...
Vegeta: "...What? It's like a ki without ki! It won't let me get near him! ... I can't attack!"
Significance: 無気の気/mu ki no ki is (super literally) "nothingness-ki ki". It's like an airy or nonexistent ki, but it's ki at the same time. A "ki-less" ki. Basically, Vegeta's sensing something strange, but can't describe what that something is. Some speedsub groups completely ignored this description.

I feel the need to bring up the above quote. It seems Vegeta has trained so tremendously hard that he's able to catch the attention of even Whiss. Also, during the fight with Beerus, Vegeta wasn't able to sense anything from him, but here, he can somewhat sense Whiss. It's interesting because, he might be starting to approach God level.

Goku Base (Post God) > Vegeta Base (Post Training) > Vegeta Base (Db Super/Boo Saga)

The Return of Frieza

The Basics

Muten Rōshi: "Gohan, have you been keeping your martial arts training up?"
Gohan: "I-I'm sorry, no. But I can still turn Super Saiyan. Probably."

During the opening of this particular Saga, Gohan has now lost the ability to transform into his Ultimate form and has to resort to Super Saiyan instead.

Ultimate Gohan (Boo Saga) > Ultimate Gohan (Db Super) > Gohan Ssj (Db Super)

Minute: 5
Context: Goku sizes up Vegeta
Goku: "Amazing, Vegeta! I can't believe how much stronger you've grown! You might already be even stronger than I am! Your ki has a completely different quality to it than back when you were on Earth."

After training with Whiss, Vegeta is now able to fully sense the presense of a deity and has surpassed Goku!

Vegeta Base (Whiss-Training) > Goku Base (Post God) > Vegeta Base (Post Training) > Vegeta/Goku Base (Db Super/Boo Saga)

Minute: 17
Context: Whis provides highly detailed expository dialogue.
Whis: "Those two have just barely reached the level where they can sense the ki of a god. If that castle up there were the level of the gods, then their power is only about this high.

Here Whiss states that Goku & Vegeta aren't even close to being Gods. This is the final verdict that contradicts Goku absorbing the SSJG power and being as powerful, or near as powerful, as he was when he was fighting Beerus. End of Z makes it clear that Goku is still around Mister Boo tier in his Base form, and here he is even weaker. However, he is still stronger than he was after he lost the SSJG power.

Also, they under-go alot of training prior to fighting Golden Frieza so presumably, they have long surpassed the power Goku had in his Base form during his Frieza fight.

Goku Base (EOZ) >= Mister Boo > Vegeta (Frieza Arc) >= Goku (Frieza Arc) > Vegeta Base (Whiss-Training) > Goku Base (Post God) > Vegeta Base (Post Training) > Vegeta/Goku Base (Db Super/Boo Saga)

Arrival Of Frieza

Minute: 4
Sorbet: “Tagoma is an excellent warrior, comparable to the late Zarbon-sama and Dodoria-sama.”
And later on:
Minute: 6
Freeza: He is comparable to Zarbon-san and Dodoria-san, you say? It appears the Freeza Army has weakened during my brief absence.”

As hilarious as it appears to be, Tagoma is only as powerful as Zarbon & Dodoria!

Zarbon =/= Tagoma >= Dodoria

Minute: 19~20
Freeza: “That shall do for the training on tormenting Son Goku to the brink of death. Well done, Tagoma-san. Thanks to you, I have managed to climb to yet another stage. You are a highly valuable training partner. Now get into the regeneration device and make sure you're healed properly up for tomorrow. Otherwise, I might end up killing you.”

Hilariously, Tagoma undergoes training with Frieza and continues to get nearly killed for a few months. However, this sky-rockets his power to unprecedented levels and he's able to single shot the likes of Piccolo; though he's still nothing to Super Saiyan Gohan.

Minute: 22~23
Gohan (narrating the NEP): “This Tagoma person is on a completely different level from the other soldiers. He’s hiding power at least on par with my own! No way... His power rose even higher?! What's that bizarre pose?!”

Tagoma's hidden powers approach Super Saiyan Gohans and long surpass Piccolo. However, the regular Tagoma does not have access to this power, as it is only unlocked by Ginyu. Additionally, Gotenks does come in and head-butt's Tagoma, but it doesn't mean he's stronger than him. He simply took him off guard. It's like the time when Super Saiyan Gotenks head-butted Super Boo.

Frieza 1rst Form > Gohan Ssj (Db Super) > Ginyu (In Tagoma's Body) > Tagoma > Gotenks Ssj > Gotenks Base > Vegeta Ssj > Piccolo (Db Super) > Piccolo (Boo Saga)

Minute: 9
Gohan: "It's been a long time since I last fought, and I've even misplaced my martial arts uniform... I don't even have the power to protect the others. If I'd continued to train like Dad and the others did, then Piccolo-san wouldn't have had to die."

To me, this is a very important piece of evidence. It's quite clear Frieza's 1rst form is far above Gohan. However, he remarks that if he trained like his father, he would be able to defeat at least Frieza's 1rst transformation! However, because Gohan was brought way-ay past his natural limits, I'd take it to mean that he'd at least maintain his maximum strength.

Ultimate Gohan (Boo Saga) > Frieza 1rst Form > Gohan Ssj (Db Super) > Ginyu (In Tagoma's Body) > Tagoma > Gotenks Ssj > Gotenks Base > Vegeta Ssj > Piccolo (Db Super) > Piccolo (Boo Saga)

Minute: 2
Narrator: "In order to surpass the powered up Freeza, Goku mutated into a form that exceeded even Super Saiyan God."
Significance: As chapter 5 indicated a few months ago, Goku's blue form is a step up from Super Saiyan God. Also, another instance of "mutation" being used to describe a transformation.

Goku SSJGB > Goku SSJG

Minute: 18
Context: Goku and Freeza trade blows.

Goku: "This ain't good... You're even better than me!"
Freeza: "I told you so."
Goku: "You really are amazin'. It took me a really long time to get this far."

Significance: As mentioned several times throughout the fight, Golden Freeza is stronger than Goku in his SSGSS form.

As everybody knows by now, Golden Frieza is stronger than Goku is in his SSJGSS form.

Golden Frieza > Goku SSJGB > Goku SSJG

Minute: 9
Context: Goku finds himself unable to gain the upper hand in his fight with Freeza.

Vegeta: "Kakarrot! Cut the crap! If you're going to stay oblivious forever, then I'll gladly step in and kill Freeza myself!"
Freeza: "What was that?"

Significance: Unlike Revival of "F", Goku doesn't realize Freeza's weakness until Vegeta gives him a hint.

This is an interesting quote because Vegeta sees something that Goku cannot. I take this to mean that Vegeta has stepped up a notch and slightly surpassed Goku by the time Frieza shows up. It's reminiscent of the time when Goku Base's Form was slightly surpassed by Vegeta's Base Form, after Vegeta undertook Whiss's training.

Golden Frieza > Vegeta SSJB >= Goku SSJGB > Goku SSJG

Akira Toriyama’s Inside Story: What’s the relationship between Beerus and Freeza?
Even Freeza is no match for the God of Destruction Beerus, no matter what he does!

Whiss > Beerus > Golden Frieza > Vegeta SSJB >= Goku SSJGB > Goku SSJG

The Remaining 3 Episodes

Minute: 9

Goku: "Hey who's stronger you [Champa] or Beerus-sama?"
Vados: "There should be no need to ask such a question. Isn't it obvious just by looking at their physique?"

It's really hard to decide how Champa stacks up to Golden Frieza, but he's probably a 'tiny' bit more powerful.

Beerus > Champa >= Golden Frieza > Vegeta SSJG SS >= Goku SSJG SS

The Final Verdict For Now! (Will Update As More Translations Come Out)

The Gods
Vados >= Whiss > Beerus > Champa >= Golden Frieza > Vegeta SSJG SS >= Goku SSJG SS > Goku SSJG (Zenkai) > Goku SSJG (Full Power) > Goku SSJG (Powering Up) > Goku SSJG (Initial) > Milf

Vados: 160
Whiss: 150
Beerus: 100
Champa: 90
Golden Frieza: 80
Vegeta SSJG SS: 72
Goku SSJG SS 70
Goku SSJG (Zenkai): 60
Goku SSJG (Full Power): 48
Goku SSJG (Powering Up): 32
Goku SSJG (Initial): 24

Hopefully you enjoyed my analysis! There will be more to come as more translations to come out!! & holy shit that took forever to right

 

[Six Trails]

 

[Uchiha]

Ultimate Gohan (Db Super) > Mister Boo

Based on what? Gohan is pathetic in Super

 

[kriss-]

Gohan was only pathetic by the time Frieza arrived, it was then that Gohan lost his ability to tap into his Mystic form. Before-hand, he was still able to; even when Beerus showed up.

After Mister Boo & Gotenks Base Post lost their fight against Beerus, Gohan steps in, and is clearly in his Mystic form. Piccolo nearly shits himself at the sight of Gohan losing that particular fight. Gohan is likely still the top dog among the Z-Fighters on Earth.

He would have to be a damned fool to power up in his Mystic form and jump into a fight where he would get single shotted. Vegeta only jumped in due to pride and honor, not power.

 

[Uchiha]

Err Vegeta is clearly stronger than Gohan too

I don't see how Gohan would lose power that fast either

 

[kriss-]

Err Vegeta is clearly stronger than Gohan too

I don't see how Gohan would lose power that fast either

During the fight with Beerus, Vegeta is the weakest among the Saiyans. Beerus had to make physical contact to defeat the likes of Mister Boo, Gotenks Base & Mystic Gohan. Whereas with Vegeta Ssj & the remaining Z-Fighters, he never even had to budge a muscle.

Vegeta is even weaker than Gotenks here.

Additionally, Gohan lost a tremendous amount of power from the period between the Cell Game & The Majin Boo Saga. That difference should be able the same in this scenario.

 

[Zoom]

Do you have a theory on how Vegeta got so powerful in his raged state against Beerus?

 

[kriss-]

Not that I can think of. If appears he just pulled it out of his ass. But if I was to try and think something up, I'd have to say Vegeta had it in him the entire time -a pretty broad statement, but it isn't without sufficient evidence. Dragonball Super seems to be showing Vegeta much more respect than the Manga or Anime ever did. Firstly, Vegeta is able to surpass Goku's Super Saiyan 3 transformation, secondly, Vegeta was able to break his barriers afterwards and become even more powerful. Thirdly, he was taken as a pupil by Whiss and achieved God tier power by his own hard work and determination, something Goku wasn't capable of doing. Lastly, during the scuffle with Golden Frieza, Vegeta is able to see things that Goku cannot. Perhaps he had the capability of becoming a God all along and his enraged power is his means of tapping into that potential. However, it would take proper training from an actual God to learn to control it.

 

[Six Trails]

& holy shit that took forever to right

 

[Zippy]

That is "write"