Teen Gohan = Kid Gohan Theory

[Power Level Guy]

Let's assume that the only reason Gohan is weaker is because he cannot access his full power unless via rage.

Let's assume Teen Gohan = Kid Gohan, except his top end SSJ2 power.

If he's a SSJ2 against Dabura, this might be possible.

This would force the rage boost to be quite significant and would make Vegeta and Goku quite strong.

Is there anything concrete that would stop this? Vegeta's comments are still applicable here I believe.

And Gohan believes he has the advantage initially going in against a super improved Vegeta and Goku...

 

[Papasmurf]

I don't like this theory honestly, we've seen others weaken from getting older or rusting, and Vegeta seemed pretty sure that Gohan had been slacking just from seeing him at Capsule Corp. once.

 

[Power Level Guy]

I don't like this theory honestly, we've seen others weaken from getting older or rusting, and Vegeta seemed pretty sure that Gohan had been slacking just from seeing him at Capsule Corp. once.

Gohan slacking would definitely mean he hasn't gained any power. But being weakened? Perhaps he didn't?

How come Gohan has such confidence that he can still beat Vegeta and Goku despite no training? He talks about maintaining his edge...

 

[Papasmurf]

Gohan slacking would definitely mean he hasn't gained any power. But being weakened? Perhaps he didn't?

How come Gohan has such confidence that he can still beat Vegeta and Goku despite no training? He talks about maintaining his edge...

He openly admitted he was rusty before he started to re-train. If he didn't weaken at all over the 7 years then the month of training would bring him above his kid self, that's why I don't like this theory.

 

[Power Level Guy]

He openly admitted he was rusty before he started to re-train. If he didn't weaken at all over the 7 years then the month of training would bring him above his kid self, that's why I don't like this theory.

Maybe his training brought him back up to par?

 

[Papasmurf]

Maybe his training brought him back up to par?

Training with a Super Saiyan should make him stronger dawg, Trunks even said Goten had gotten a lot stronger in a short time when they fought in the tourney.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Training with a Super Saiyan should make him stronger dawg, Trunks even said Goten had gotten a lot stronger in a short time when they fought in the tourney.

Ok, so Gohan was weakened, his training with Goten brought him back up to speed. How about that?

 

[Papasmurf]

I guess that works but it's still hard to wrap my mind around Vegeta having to stress twice in the same arc that Gohan was rusty and weaker than his prime. Even Goku was dumbfounded and said he'd really slacked off. Since Gohan is a fighting genius and would regain fighting instincts pretty fast, I think it's quite indicative of him physically weakening. This fits with Gohan constantly losing his former power from slacking in Super too (I only invoke Super when it fits with the original manga).

 

[Power Level Guy]

I guess that works but it's still hard to wrap my mind around Vegeta having to stress twice in the same arc that Gohan was rusty and weaker than his prime. Even Goku was dumbfounded and said he'd really slacked off. Since Gohan is a fighting genius and would regain fighting instincts pretty fast, I think it's quite indicative of him physically weakening. This fits with Gohan constantly losing his former power from slacking in Super too (I only invoke Super when it fits with the original manga).

Yeah, I have always went that route too.

But that other argument does actually exist. So long as the only times he's stated to be weaker is while he's in SSJ2, supposing he is SSJ2 against Dabura, then it can actually work.

How do you deal with...

Teen Gohan > Expected Vegeta/Goku?

Where is Gohan's confidence coming from?

 

[Papasmurf]

Well Gohan never said he would actually win, he said if he's entering the tournament he'd rather fight to win.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Well Gohan never said he would actually win, he said if he's entering the tournament he'd rather fight to win.

He says he would like to keep his edge as well IIRC. He intends on winning initially. Like the whole thing.

If he doesn't mind taking 2nd or 3rd place, there's no reason for him to train. He's training to win.

 

[Papasmurf]

He just said "If I'm entering, I would like to win... For that, my body has gotten too soft. I need to take a break from school to train." He never said he would win for sure. I also think Gohan never expected SSJ2 Goku and SSJ2 Vegeta judging from his shock at them fighting at that level.

 

[Power Level Guy]

He just said "If I'm entering, I would like to win... For that, my body has gotten too soft. I need to take a break from school to train." He never said he would win for sure. I also think Gohan never expected SSJ2 Goku and SSJ2 Vegeta judging from his shock at them fighting at that level.

Well that could explain his confidence then. In SSJ2.

Where are you at with the SSJ/SSJ2 stuff for Gohan?

 

[Papasmurf]

I just like to go with the artwork because the writing around Babidi's ship is a giant mess and either option makes just as or just as little sense. Toriyama said his intention with his manga was just to entertain boys who read his comic (which he made pretty simple, honestly) and I don't think he would purposefully omit the SSJ2 aura if he wanted to send the message that Gohan was SSJ2.

In the anime though Gohan seems to have gone SSJ2 just before demanding that Dabura show him his true power.

 

[Power Level Guy]

and I don't think he would purposefully omit the SSJ2 aura if he wanted to send the message that Gohan was SSJ2.

What's the problem if we insert that in?

It really does feel like it fits better.

 

[Papasmurf]

What's the problem if we insert that in?

It really does feel like it fits better.

I think both sides have their logical flaws due to SSJ Majin Vegeta being treated as a bigger threat than Dabura.

 

[Power Level Guy]

I think both sides have their logical flaws due to SSJ Majin Vegeta being treated as a bigger threat than Dabura.

Yeah, that's what convinced me last time. One only has to look at how SSJ Majin Vegeta is treated and it becomes clear that he is without a doubt the strongest.

Goku doesn't think Vegeta has SSJ2 and then surprise, surprise Vegeta has it too.

If Vegeta is a SSJ2 the whole time instead of SSJ and Gohan has SSJ2 aura, then everything should work, right?

 

[Papasmurf]

Right, but we need to twist the story for that to happen, especially with Majin Vegeta.

 

[Hector]

Let's assume that the only reason Gohan is weaker is because he cannot access his full power unless via rage.

Let's assume Teen Gohan = Kid Gohan, except his top end SSJ2 power.

If he's a SSJ2 against Dabura, this might be possible.

This would force the rage boost to be quite significant and would make Vegeta and Goku quite strong.

Is there anything concrete that would stop this? Vegeta's comments are still applicable here I believe.

And Gohan believes he has the advantage initially going in against a super improved Vegeta and Goku...

I think there is no clear distinction between SSJ1 and SSJ2. SSJ2 is not exactly a transformation; it's more like a powered-up state of SSJ1. There are various intermediate levels of power depending on how much power the user can draw out of the power-up. In my books, at Buu Saga Vegeta increased only his SSJ2 power when he received the majin charm and Gohan's only difference from his Cell Games self is his access to the SSJ2 power. Here are my gaps.

Gohan (Cell Games)
-SSJ: 90
-SSJ2: 225

Gohan (Buu Saga)
-SSJ: 90
-SSJ2 (Budokai) - 180
-SSJ2 (Dabura) - 150
-SSJ2 (full power/rage) - 225

Goku (Buu Saga)
-SSJ: 100
-SSJ2: 250

Vegeta (Buu Saga)
-SSJ: 100
-SSJ2 (pre majin): 200
-SSJ2 (post majin): 250

Trunks
-SSJ: 85

Goten
-SSJ: 80

 

[Power Level Guy]

I think there is no clear distinction between SSJ1 and SSJ2. SSJ2 is not exactly a transformation; it's more like a powered-up state of SSJ1. There are various intermediate levels of power depending on how much power the user can draw out of the power-up. In my books, at Buu Saga Vegeta increased only his SSJ2 power when he received the majin charm and Gohan's only difference from his Cell Games self is his access to the SSJ2 power. Here are my gaps.

Maybe that’s why he doesn’t have lightning. Perhaps AT hasn’t established that at the time yet. That would make sense I think.