THE LAST ONE_2025

[GSM123]

Saiyan Saga

Spoiler

Raditz Arrives

Farmer: 5

Raditz: 1,250

Goku
~ Weighted: 334
~ Unweighted: 416
~ Kamehameha: 924

Piccolo
~ Weighted: 322
~ Unweighted: 408
~ Makankosappo: 1,330

Gohan
~ Calm: 1
~ Nervous: 710
~ Enraged: 1,307

Training

Kami: 320
Mr Popo: 270

Master Roshi: 139
Kuririn: 206

Yamcha: 177
Tenshinhan: 250
Chaozu: 150
Yajirobe: 155

Piccolo (Weighted): 329

Gohan
~ Calm: 1
~ Dormant power: 200
~ Full dormant power: 1,500
~ Oozaru: 2,000

Emma Daio: 2,000
Kaio: 3,000

Nappa and Vegeta arrive

Saibamen: 1,200

Yamcha: 1,350

Kuririn: 1,500

Chaozu: 800

Tenshinhan
~ Base: 1,600
~ Kikoho: 2,400

Piccolo: 2,100

Gohan
~ Base: 1,250
~ Enraged: 2,500
~ Masenko: 2,800

Nappa
~ Initial effort: 3,200
~ Powered up: 6,400
~ Full power: 8,000

Goku
~ Base: 8,000
~ Kaioken x2: 16,000
~ Kaioken x3: 24,000
~ Kaioken x4: 32,000
~ Fatigued: 4,000

Vegeta
~ Base: 18,000
~ Garlic Gun: 24,000
~ Post beam struggle: 9,000
~ Post Ki Ball: 6,000
~ Oozaru: 60,000
~ Post Oozaru: 3,000
~ Post Genki Dama: 1,500

Yajirobe: 1,000

Gohan (Post Nappa)
~ Base: 1,500
~ Enraged: 3,000
~ Injured: 300
~ Oozaru: 1,500

Freeza Saga

Spoiler

Arrival on Namek

Kuririn: 1,550

Gohan
~ Base: 1,650
~ Enraged: 3,200

Namekians: 1,000 to 3,000 each

Freeza's Soldiers: 1,000 to 2,000 each

Kui: 18,000

Dodoria: 20,000

Zarbon
~ Base: 21,000
~ Monster form: 30,000

Vegeta
~ Base: 24,000
~ Zenkai: 30,000

Ginyu Force

Kuririn: 11,500
Gohan: 12,500

Vegeta
~ Base: 30,000
~ Final Crash: 40,000

Guldo: 5,000
Recoome, Jheese & Burta: 40,000 each

Goku
~ Vs Ginyus: 60,000
~ Full power: 90,000
~ Kaioken x2: 180,000

Captain Ginyu
~ Suppressed: 60,000
~ Full power: 120,000
~ Goku's body: 23,000

Kuririn (Post Senzu): 23,000
Gohan (Zenkai): 25,000

Vegeta (Zenkai): 60,000+

Battle against Freeza

Nail: 42,000

Dende
~ Base: 10
~ Potential unlocked: 300

Kuririn: 250,000

Gohan
~ Base: 300,000
~ Enraged: 900,000
~ Zenkai: 1,000,000
~ Enraged again: 2,000,000
~ Masenko: 2,250,000

Piccolo
~ Weighted: 270,000
~ Unweighted: 330,000
~ Weighted, fused with Nail: 1,350,000
~ Unweighted, fused with Nail: 1,650,000

Vegeta
~ Base: 480,000
~ Zenkai: 4,800,000
~ Planet Buster: 7,200,000

Goku
~ Warming up: 8,000,000
~ Full power: 10,000,000
~ Kaioken x10: 100,000,000
~ Kaioken x20: 200,000,000
~ SSJ: 500,000,000

Freeza
~ 1st form: 530,000
~ 2nd form: 1,060,000
~ Powered up: 1,325,000
~ Full power: 1,590,000
~ 3rd form: 2,385,000
~ True form: 5,300,000
~ Speed up/Warming up: 8,000,000
~ No hands: 10,800,000
~ 50%: 240,000,000
~ 70%: 336,000,000
~ 100%: 480,000,000

Cell Saga

Spoiler

The Future

Future Gohan (2 arms)
~ Base: 12,000,000
~ SSJ: 600,000,000

Future Android 17
~ Less than 50%: 675,000,000
~ 100%: 2,250,000,000

Future Android 18
~ Less than 50%: 630,000,000
~ 100%: 2,100,000,000

Future Gohan (1 arm)
~ Base: 15,000,000
~ SSJ: 750,000,000
~ TV Special: 2,250,000,000

Goku returns

Mecha Freeza
~ Suppressed: 300,000,000
~ Unseen full power: 530,000,000

King Cold: 300,000,000

Future Trunks
~ Base: 16,500,000
~ SSJ: 825,000,000

Goku
~ Base: 20,000,000
~ SSJ: 1,000,000,000

Vegeta: 10,000,000
Piccolo: 9,600,000
Gohan: 1,000,000

Garlic Jr.: 10,000,000
Spice Boys: 500,000 ~ 2,000,000

Androids Saga

Goku
~ Base: 40,000,000
~ SSJ: 2,000,000,000
~ Sick: 1,350,000,000

Vegeta
~ Base: 42,000,000
~ SSJ: 2,100,000,000

Future Trunks
~ Base: 36,000,000
~ SSJ: 1,800,000,000

Piccolo
~ Suppressed: 30,000,000
~ Full power: 1,500,000,000

Gohan: 20,000,000

Kuririn: 10,000,000
Tenshinhan: 5,000,000
Yamcha: 2,500,000

Android 19
~ Base: 900,000,000
~ Post absorptions: 1,200,000,000

Android 20
~ Base: 1,000,000,000
~ Post absorptions: 1,250,000,000

Android 18: 2,800,000,000
Android 17: 3,000,000,000

Cell appears

Piccolo (Fused with Kami)
~ Weighted: 2,700,000,000
~ Unweighted: 3,000,000,000
~ Light Grenade: 9,000,000,000

Android 16: 18,000,000,000

Tenshinhan (Shin Kikoho): 25,000,000,000

Vegeta
~ Base: 750,000,000
~ SSJ: 37,500,000,000
~ Grade 2: 75,000,000,000
~ Final Flash: 300,000,000,000

Future Trunks
~ Base: 720,000,000
~ SSJ: 36,000,000,000
~ Grade 2: 72,000,000,000
~ Grade 3: 360,000,000,000

Cell
~ Imperfect form: 2,400,000,000
~ Imperfect Kamehameha: 5,400,000,000
~ Post absorptions: 18,000,000,000
~ Semi Perfect form: 36,000,000,000
~ Full power: 45,000,000,000
~ Perfect form: 67,500,000,000
~ Warmed up: 150,000,000,000
~ Buffed up: 375,000,000,000

Goku (Rosat)
~ Base: 90,000,000
~ SSJ: 4,500,000,000
~ Grade 2: 9,000,000,000
~ Grade 3: 45,000,000,000

Gohan
~ Base: 90,000,000
~ SSJ: 4,500,000,000

SSJ Goku (Post Rosat, 50%): 225,000,000,000

Cell Games

Mr Satan: 6.66

Piccolo: 6,000,000,000

Vegeta & Future Trunks
~ Base: 6,000,000,000 each
~ SSJ: 300,000,000,000 each

Goku
~ Base: 9,000,000,000
~ SSJ (Warming up): 150,000,000,000
~ FPSSJ: 450,000,000,000
~ Kamehameha: 1,800,000,000,000
~ Fatigued: 4,500,000,000

Gohan
~ Base: 13,500,000,000
~ SSJ: 600,000,000,000
~ Slight anger: 675,000,000,000
~ SSJ2 (Enraged): 2,700,000,000,000
~ Standing Kamehameha: 5,400,000,000,000
~ Weakened: 1,200,000,000,000
~ One handed Kamehameha: 4,800,000,000,000
~ Father-Son Kamehameha: 10,800,000,000,000

Cell Jrs: 300,000,000,000

Cell
~ Warming up: 150,000,000,000
~ Powered up vs Goku: 500,000,000,000
~ Speed up vs Gohan: 625,000,000,000
~ Full power: 1,000,000,000,000
~ Perfect Kamehameha: 4,000,000,000,000
~ Weakened: 300,000,000,000
~ Giant: 1,500,000,000,000
~ Super Perfect form: 2,000,000,000,000
~ Solar Kamehameha: 8,000,000,000,000

Olibu: 8,000,000,000
Paikuhan: 500,000,000,000

Boo Saga

Spoiler

Goten
~ Base: 3,000,000,000
~ SSJ: 150,000,000,000

Trunks
~ Base: 3,200,000,000
~ SSJ: 160,000,000,000

Android 18: 2,800,000,000

Piccolo: 6,000,000,000
Kaioshin: 9,000,000,000
Kibito: 4,500,000,000

Pui Pui: 1,000,000,000
Yakon: 13,500,000,000
Dabura: 500,000,000,000

Gohan
~ Base: 10,000,000,000
~ SSJ: 500,000,000,000
~ SSJ2: 2,000,000,000,000

Vegeta
~ Base: 12,000,000,000
~ SSJ: 600,000,000,000
~ SSJ2: 2,400,000,000,000
~ Potential unlocked: 3,000,000,000,000

Goku
~ Base: 15,000,000,000
~ SSJ: 750,000,000,000
~ SSJ2: 3,000,000,000,000
~ SSJ3: 15,000,000,000,000

Fat Boo: 12,000,000,000,000

Gotenks
~ Bsae: 300,000,000,000
~ SSJ: 15,000,000,000,000

Gohan (Post Z Sword)
~ Base: 45,000,000,000
~ Unseen SSJ: 2,250,000,000,000
~ Unseen SSJ2: 9,000,000,000,000

Good Boo: 4,000,000,000,000
Pure Evil Boo: 8,000,000,000,000

Fusion

Goten/Trunks (Post Rosat)
~ Base: 6,000,000,000 each
~ SSJ: 300,000,000,000 each

Gotenks
~ Base: 600,000,000,000
~ SSJ: 30,000,000,000,000
~ SSJ2: 120,000,000,000,000
~ SSJ3: 600,000,000,000,000

Ultimate Gohan: 900,000,000,000,000

Super Boo
~ Base: 600,000,000,000,000
~ Gotenks absorbed: 1,200,000,000,000,000
~ Gohan absorbed: 1,500,000,000,000,000

Vegetto
~ Base: 60,000,000,000,000
~ SSJ: 3,000,000,000,000,000

The Final Battle

Kid Boo
~ Base: 15,000,000,000,000
~ South Kaioshin absorbed: 750,000,000,000,000

South Kaioshin: 15,000,000,000,000
Dai Kaioshin: 4,000,000,000,000

Goku
~ Base: 15,000,000,000
~ SSJ: 750,000,000,000
~ SSJ2: 3,000,000,000,000
~ SSJ3: 15,000,000,000,000

Vegeta
~ Base: 15,000,000,000
~ SSJ: 750,000,000,000
~ SSJ2: 3,000,000,000,000

Mr Boo: 4,000,000,000,000

 

[Power Level Guy]

I want to see Kami and Popo in that Raditz Saga boy and Shenron

Yamcha’s Kamehameha at Nappa Saga.

 

[GSM123]

I want to see Kami and Popo in that Raditz Saga boy and Shenron

They're impossible to gauge with BoZ, specially Shenron.

Yamcha’s Kamehameha at Nappa Saga.

Not important enough for me to bother.

I'm thinking about lowering Kuririn and Gohan in the Freeza fight just a tiny bit. I don't like how they're so close to Piccolo. Do you think 230k and 250k (10x their Ginyu fight levels) works?

 

[Power Level Guy]

They're impossible to gauge with BoZ, specially Shenron.

So they can only be inaccurately displayed is what you are saying?

I'm thinking about lowering Kuririn and Gohan in the Freeza fight just a tiny bit. I don't like how they're so close to Piccolo. Do you think 230k and 250k (10x their Ginyu fight levels) works?

Krillin 250
Piccolo 275
Gohan 300
Piccolo 350

Is goated.

 

[GSM123]

So they can only be inaccurately displayed is what you are saying?

No, I’m saying I don’t know where to place them. Maybe Popo at 270 and Kami at 300?

Krillin 250
Piccolo 275
Gohan 300
Piccolo 350

Is goated.

Yeah I think I might as well just stick with that, Gohan being 300 and then 900 when enraged/healed is neat. I like Nailccolo at 1,500,000 and was sticking with a 5x multiplier, but meh.

Come to think of it, isn’t 350 too high? Remember, suppressed 1st form Freeza >>> Piccolo.


I think I’ll add Part 1 today instead of Cell and Boo, at least up to the stuff we’ve done. I was having second thoughts on wind chop, but I’m back on board with everything we discussed.

 

[Power Level Guy]

No, I’m saying I don’t know where to place them. Maybe Popo at 270 and Kami at 300?

Tien rivals Popo who rivals Kami? Remember even 6 months later Popo had Tien on the ropes?

 

[Animelover5487]

Tien rivals Popo who rivals Kami? Remember even 6 months later Popo had Tien on the ropes?

The early Z scouter numbers are just too tight to fit the appropriate gaps. Popo and Kami have to be wayyyy weaker than Goku/Piccolo while still stronger than the humans.

 

[GSM123]

@Power Level Guy I saw you talking on Neo about how the author changes his mind and we have no business trying to fix his sloppy writing. Isn't this literally the case here?

Btw, 6 months later they were already finished training with Popo and Kami.

 

[Power Level Guy]

@Power Level Guy I saw you talking on Neo about how the author changes his mind and we have no business trying to fix his sloppy writing. Isn't this literally the case here?

That’s an excellent point and really pokes a hole in my argument now doesn’t it? I feel this scenario is a special one and I have to figure out the best way to explain it.

But basically the tremendous rewriting that would have to be done narratively is just so lore breaking I feel like this is the best way. Also, I think he doesn’t understand the ramifications of the numbers and so on. But for me, I try to utilize the least harm approach and the “later is greater” mentality. This is clearly a novel situation though.

We are forced with an impossible decision, do we accept the numbers and rewrite half the manga to fit those numbers? Or do we rewrite the numbers to accommodate the other half of the story? There’s no way to numerically save OG DB with those BoZ numbers. It creates tremendous numerical impossibilities.

Whereas for me, a rewriting of how Piccolo is treated at the CGs to better suit the Buu Saga seems like the best decision.

Also, making Gohan just a Super Saiyan at the Budokai would have been a great way to retcon the narrative to better suit the Majin Vegeta narrative.

I develop a lot of common sense rules, but there are always exceptions to the rules. I don’t believe rare exceptions to rules should disqualify the rules and if you break the rules for those rare exceptions they should really be worth it.

I happen to think scaling OG DB in its fullness is a higher priority than the absolute destruction the BoZ numbers create to that part of the series.

It’s all a matter of personal choice, but that’s the most intellectually honest answer I can give while acknowledging your tremendously valid point.

For me, it’s a matter of “What is our best option here?” And applying that to the entirety of the series, with a maximum priority on harmony between the two parts of the series.

Btw, 6 months later they were already finished training with Popo and Kami.

Well for a time there it still happened and Popo seemed to have the edge on Tien. Do you remember the panel?

 

[Power Level Guy]

The early Z scouter numbers are just too tight to fit the appropriate gaps. Popo and Kami have to be wayyyy weaker than Goku/Piccolo while still stronger than the humans.

Yeah, it’s an impossible situation. But those who wish to maintain the BoZ numbers, can’t we at least find the best case scenario for how they can handle OG DB? Sure, it won’t work, but honestly it’s probably best to treat OG DB like a fever dream that you don’t have specifics to if you intend to do a Z list. There’s just too much you have to rewrite, which is why I choose to rewrite the BoZ numbers. It’s the least harmful of the choices available by a long shot.

 

[SIAD]

Well for a time there it still happened and Popo seemed to have the edge on Tien. Do you remember the panel?

Are you referring to the episode where they face off against the Illusion Saiyans?

That wasn't Tien Shinhan, it was Yamcha.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Are you referring to the episode where they face off against the Illusion Saiyans?

No, in the manga there is a panel while they are training for the Saiyans and you can see Tien seems to be exhausted while Popo is not. Could you look for it and post it? It's during the time skip segment when everyone is training for the Saiyans to come right before they actually come. And it's right before Kami sends them to go train on their own.

 

[GSM123]

No, in the manga there is a panel while they are training for the Saiyans and you can see Tien seems to be exhausted while Popo is not. Could you look for it and post it? It's during the time skip segment when everyone is training for the Saiyans to come right before they actually come. And it's right before Kami sends them to go train on their own.

I know that panel. I think Kuririn was the one fighting Popo? But I’m sure Tien was standing alone and far from Popo.

As for the numbers, my logic here is that I just copied and pasted the BoZ numbers as given in the series. That’s why I didn’t include Kami, Popo, or even Yajirobe and Chaozu. This is just what’s in the manga and I avoided making any estimations to be sure.

I always liked the idea that part 1 is a different numerical system. Sure, it’s the same show, but only one had numerical power levels. As CatouttaHell said in his list, this is more of a experimental thing. Like what if scouters were always a thing?

 

[Power Level Guy]

I know that panel. I think Kuririn was the one fighting Popo? But I’m sure Tien was standing alone and far from Popo.

Tien is absolutely exhausted. Mr. Popo just got done making light work of him and now he's given Krillin the business now too.

I always liked the idea that part 1 is a different numerical system. Sure, it’s the same show, but only one had numerical power levels. As CatouttaHell said in his list, this is more of a experimental thing. Like what if scouters were always a thing?

If Freeza came to earth with his scouters and got readings on all the DB characters they should still fit into the same universe.

There's no dimensional rift going on here lol. It's literally the same universe, AT just has no idea how to express his narrative numerically in a way that accounts for everything. Which is to be expected from an author who writes off the cuff.

 

[SIAD]

Tien is absolutely exhausted. Mr. Popo just got done making light work of him and now he's given Krillin the business now too.


If Freeza came to earth with his scouters and got readings on all the DB characters they should still fit into the same universe.

There's no dimensional rift going on here lol. It's literally the same universe, AT just has no idea how to express his narrative numerically in a way that accounts for everything. Which is to be expected from an author who writes off the cuff.

The reason why Tenshinhan was exhausted is highly speculative; it could even be that he's tired from the training Kamisama is giving him.

Seeing the distance Tenshinhan had from Mr. Popo and Krillin, it seems they were doing different training sessions. If Tenshinhan had been exhausted from fighting Mr. Popo, Tenshinhan surely wouldn't have the energy to stay so far away, nor do I think Tenshinhan would spend much time that tired. I think Tenshinhan was tired from the training he was doing at the time, not from any previous training.

 

[Power Level Guy]

The author has an agenda when he creates these panels. What is the author trying to convey to you here?

Tell me how the author portrays Tien, Krillin, and Popo here. What is your best guess?

 

[SIAD]

The author has an agenda when he creates these panels. What is the author trying to convey to you here?

Tell me how the author portrays Tien, Krillin, and Popo here. What is your best guess?

The truth is, I can't assume anything. Tenshinhan seems to be staring at Kamisama.

Anyway, I have Mr. Popo >= / > Tenshinhan (BoZ). And Mr. Popo is much more skilled than Tenshinhan.

I think Tenshinhan has made a lot of progress in those five years, but less than 10x.

 

[Power Level Guy]

The truth is, I can't assume anything. Tenshinhan seems to be staring at Kamisama.

I don't need you to assume, I need you to accurately depict what the scene is showing.

Describe Tien. What he's doing, his mental state, and so on.

 

[SIAD]

I don't need you to assume, I need you to accurately depict what the scene is showing.

Describe Tien. What he's doing, his mental state, and so on.

He's training hard and is tired. His training isn't specified, though.

 

[Power Level Guy]

He's training hard and is tired. His training isn't specified, though.

So go further brother.

Who was he training with?