The most influential anime/manga makers ranked

[Papasmurf]

LOL Fist of the North Star's prototype one shot that came out before DB was action oriented

Didn't say all of them came after DB. Reading comprehension.

i didn't say fist is the reason toriyama made goku grow up smh , fist is the reason toriyama made him all macho and buff. reading comprehension

AT never stated this lol cap

and all that astro boy influence wouldn't have gotten it past pilaf

"it was scheduled to be animated" if not for fist they would have changed plans.

Fist wasn't directly the reason for the decision to keep DB in the magazine, it was mainly the fact that Toriyama's next series after Dr. Slump was scheduled to be animated as I said. And both Dragon Boy and Dragon Ball took strong Jackie Chan inspirations. HnK was the standard for battle shonen on Jump at the time, but was no more the source for DB's success YYH's was off DB since the main reason for DB's success was the combination of Dr. Slump's prior success and the success of the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai arc. Without Dr. Slump DB would've been canned by chapter 15. HnK was merely the cherry on top for DB shifting fully to an action-oriented series.

 

[ScottyFamalam]

Didn't say all of them came after DB. Reading comprehension.

you implied that the reason dragon boy wasn't fighting oriented was because it was a one shot which is silly because oneshots can be fighting oriented as we saw with fist's prototype

there were plenty fighting oriented oneshots before DB stop this cap

AT never stated this lol cap

he didn't have to. fist pioneered the buff macho types so without fist paving the way goku would have never become like that

may as well be arguing super sonic isn't a direct reference to super saiyans because sega technically never said he was, oh but he was lol

Fist wasn't directly the reason for the decision to keep DB in the magazine, it was mainly the fact that Toriyama's next series after Dr. Slump was scheduled to be animated as I said.

it would have still been canceled at some point if not for the rise in popularity

also toriyama said that he originally intended for DB to just last a year. gonna need a source on this "DB was already scheduled to be animated" claim

 

[Papasmurf]

you implied that the reason dragon boy wasn't fighting oriented was because it was a one shot which is silly because oneshots can be fighting oriented as we saw with fist's prototype

there were plenty fighting oriented oneshots before DB stop this cap

Fist's prototype wasn't even written with Buronson's participation retard. So of course it was action-oriented rather than story-oriented. Do your research

Fist of the North Star - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

he didn't have to. fist pioneered the buff macho types so without fist paving the way goku would have never become like that

Still never stated, boyo. Sources motherfucker, can you provide them?

may as well be arguing super sonic isn't a direct reference to super saiyans because sega technically never said he was, oh but he was lol


it would have still been canceled at some point if not for the rise in popularity

The Origin of the Tenkaichi Budokai | The Dao of Dragon Ball

//youtu.be/x2exacC3KwY Have you ever wondered where the idea of the Tenkaichi Budokai came from? Did Akira Toriyama think of it himself, or did he “borrow” it from somewhere else? This art

thedaoofdragonball.com

The success of DB directly came from the first Tenkaichi Budokai arc, which was far more strongly influenced by Drunken Master than Fist of the North Star. And the whole reason it wasn't cancelled in 10 issues like other bottom-ranking series in popularity was because of Dr. Slump's success guaranteeing in contract that Toriyama's next comic would be animated. Toriyama used Hokuto no Ken as a reference, the inspiration was entirely Drunken Master and other Jackie Chan flicks. The whole reason DB and Dragon Boy started in the first place was because Torishima noted that Toriyama preferred to watch Jackie Chan movies while working rather than listening to music like other artists. Aside from showing Toriyama that action manga were 'in', Hokuto no Ken provided no direct inspiration to DB. And AT's sense of panelling was already noticed to be top tier by Torishima before he even created Dr. Slump. (Coincidentally he hated One Piece because Oda's panelling sense was all over the place)

also toriyama said that he originally intended for DB to just last a year. gonna need a source on this "DB was already scheduled to be animated" claim

Dr. Slump was a series Toriyama wanted to end within 6 months of its inception due to him having to redraw the entire chapter if the editor didn't like the jokes. He wasn't allowed to end it unless he came up with a series that is even more entertaining, and after numerous failed one-shots he created during Slump's run he created DB's prototype Dragon Boy in response to Torishima's comment that he could use Jackie Chan movies as an inspiration. Consequently it was slated to be animated very quickly. You can read more about it here

The History Of The ‘Dragon Ball’ Series — CultureSlate

The Dragon Ball franchise has been immensely popular since it first graced the pages of Weekly Shonen Jump in 1984. Created by Akira Toriyama, this fighting manga turned media franchise has captured the imagination of people around the world, but how did this "Mystical Adventure" beg

www.cultureslate.com

and here

[덕업상권](6) 드래곤볼

<덕업상권> Ep06. 드래곤볼 -“소년만화의 전설은 아니고 레전드”출처 http://fabuloustopwallpapers.blogspot.kr/2015_04_01_archive.html * 덕질 권장 프로젝트 <덕업상권>은 매주 월요일에 업로드 됩니다. 애플 아이튠즈와 안드로이드 팟...

vertical.kbs.co.kr

(use google translate for the latter as it's not in English)

Dragon Ball even inherited the same timeslot directly from Dr. Slump, with Slump ending just before DB's three original anime began (and were followed by New Dr. Slump afterwards):

Akira Toriyama - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Dragon Ball surviving its initial low popularity in Jump's hectic climate was due to Dr. Slump's success and Fuji TV wanting Toriyama's work to occupy Slump's timeslot, not due to Fist of the North Star. Toriyama at best took lessons from FotNS in formulating action scenes to mould the series' popularity, but FotNS is hardly the reason why Toriyama's manga occupied the same timeslot on Fuji TV for 18 years with their adaptations.

 

[ScottyFamalam]

Fist's prototype wasn't even written with Buronson's participation retard

LOL that's irrelevant. it's an example of an action oneshot before DB, you're pretending that hardly any existed before DB which is cap

Sources motherfucker, can you provide them?

where is your source that DB's anime was planned early on as part of a contract? right nowhere

Toriyama used Hokuto no Ken as a reference
Aside from showing Toriyama that action manga were 'in',

In other words, if it wasn't for Fist, then DB wouldn't have become an action manga. that's uh, kind of a big deal. and it's not just that fist showed db that action manga were in; toriyama was basically told to make DB like fist, but less preachy.

Which means it influenced DB. That's not to say Toriyama wasn't also influenced by Jackie Chan and Burce Lee movies, but Fist shaped it more as the manga was specifically modeled after Fist following the Pilaf arc.

You can read more about it here

Some fan written Culture Slate article (that actually says nothing about Jump being contracted to keep Dragon Ball in the magazine for the sake of the anime) isn't a source LOL

I don't even see why you linked some random Korean article, either. If what you said is true, then surely you'd be able to pull up something from Kanzenshuu (the most comprehensive DB website with almost every interview and press release about the franchise), or something in English or Japanese?

But anyway, even if DB was contracted to get an anime regardless of its popularity, if it didn't follow fist's example then it still would have gotten canceled early on and the anime wouldn't have lasted long. next

 

[ScottyFamalam]

You don't even need to see a source to know that DBZ looks very similar to this shit lmao

With Torishima's comments over the years, it shouldn't even be a debate

 

[DBZAOTA482]

You kinda proved my point with DB shifting gears due to Fist Of The North Stars popularity and genre.

Not really when it was already planned. FoNS doing well simply convinced Toriyama to go into that direction faster. Without FoNS, Dragon Ball would probably still go into the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai and make history.

Without Dragon Ball, there'd be no Naruto or One Piece plus anime would never take off in popularity like it has outside Japan. Bleach was its generations version of Yu Yu Hakusho, since it had a darker and more "mature" tone than Naruto or OP (it was always on Adult swim in the states while Naruto and OP were initially on Cartoon Network)... in fact, it was initially rejected for being too similar to YYH and Toriyama gave him a letter of encouragement to redo it.

 

[Father]

DB post-21st Budokai wouldn’t have evolved into the more gritty style without fist lol.
AT and his editor being convinced is all the
evidence I need to prove your point wrong.

I think Scotty’s post pretty much debunked
your claims too, I’ll have to read up on ATs
influences for DB to be sure, and thankfully I can do that in Japanese.

 

[ScottyFamalam]

Not really when it was already planned.

stop the cap lol

Intended Endings Guide | Possible Ending #1: The Dragon Balls - Kanzenshuu

Kanzenshuu explores the popular fan rumors about the possibility of Akira Toriyama intending to end the Dragon Ball series with its very first story arc

www.kanzenshuu.com

Toriyama: Bulma was Tripitaka, Oolong was Zhu Bajie, and Yamcha was Sha Wujing. I initially thought that I’d end it after they finished collecting the Dragon Balls.

Toriyama: I hadn’t thought it up at all. I figured it would probably end in about a year, and I had only really prepared storyboards for three chapters.

Toriyama: Dragon Ball, which I planned on lasting one year when I started, has now been in serialization so long that it’s surpassed Dr. Slump! I feel both happy and scared…

Toriyama: Up until the Tenka’ichi Budōkai began, the series hadn’t been all that popular. At the time, Torishima-san told me “your protagonist is rather plain. That’s why it’s not popular”. Personally, since I was doing a fighting story for this series, I had intentionally made the protagonist’s clothing excessively plain. So this annoyed me, but then I figured it out. “Well, let’s increase its popularity” I thought. When I had designed Goku’s character, the words that best represented him were “I want to become strong”. So I thought I’d bring that to the front. Even during “Dr. Slump“, mini-events and tournament-like things such as the Penguin Village Grand Prix had been amazingly popular. So I’d simply make the story into a tournament format. From there the Tenka’ichi Budōkai was born. I temporarily withdrew the other characters besides Goku, brought back Kame-Sen’nin, and added Kuririn as a new character. From there it got popular before I knew it.

The series was originally end at Pilaf and the Budokai was only thought up later. Toriyama has always said that he intended for the series to just be a road adventure in the beginning.

I actually looked it up and this is the interview you're taking out of context, see bolded:

Dragon Ball “Super History Book” – Akira Toriyama Interview - Kanzenshuu

English translation of the Akira Toriyama interview from the 2016 Dragon Ball 30th Anniversary 'Super History Book' in Japan

www.kanzenshuu.com

After that, due to the Tenka’ichi Budōkai the focus of the series shifted towards battles.

What happened was, it just kept getting less and less popular. Torishima-san was really on my case about it, saying “nobody likes it!” and mean stuff like that. (laughs) From the start I had thought in the back of my mind that since it was a shōnen manga it would be better received if I drew battles, but because I’m perverse I kept sticking with Journey to the West.9 But he really did keep nagging me.

So you shifted towards battles.

Well, I got tired of him going on and on about the popularity polls all the time. (laughs) Though I was reluctant to do it, the series’ popularity did indeed start to pick up around the Tenka’ichi Budōkai… And despite my reluctance, it still felt pretty good. (laughs)

Then after that, you returned to the adventure format with the Red Ribbon Army.

I tried to fight it. (laughs) I had Arale-chan make an appearance and made things comical, and it felt like a struggle. But in the end, I couldn’t even satisfy myself, so I decided to bite the bullet and make it all about the fighting. Once that decision was out of the way, I felt a lot better.

He didn't say that he always intended for the series to transition to fighting. He had a feeling that the series would become more popular if he made it about fighting, but he specifically refused to do that because he preferred to make it like Journey to the West. He only decided to make the series about fighting because his editor kept pestering him to do so.

 

[ScottyFamalam]

This is how a manga that was consistently bottom-ranking in popularity for its first two volumes was animated in only a year.

Another thing, this isn't even true lmao: https://www.jajanken.net/en/sakuhins/QvL0By28NV

Although ratings were declining and would have eventually hit rock bottom if not for the Budokai arc, they were about average up to that point. 16 titles were being serialized in the magazine and Dragon Ball's ranking generally fell somewhere in the middle. There were only four times in the whole serialization that the series' ranking was even in the double digits.