TOP Ultimate Gohan vs RoF Golden Freeza

[Natasha Romanoff]

Who wins? Freeza has no stamina issues, neither can blow up the planet.

 

[Animelover5487]

Gohan stomps. Goku and Vegeta went through Whis training, trained in the ROSAT for 3 years, got several Zenkais from his fights with Black and Zamasu in, Vegeta went into the ROSAT a second time and the Goku vs Hit fight shows that he surpassed his Kaioken x10 level from their last fight.

RoF Golden Freeza is an ant compared to anybody even remotely close to Blue level by the ToP.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

Gohan stomps. Goku and Vegeta went through Whis training, trained in the ROSAT for 3 years, got several Zenkais from his fights with Black and Zamasu in, Vegeta went into the ROSAT a second time and the Goku vs Hit fight shows that he surpassed his Kaioken x10 level from their last fight.

RoF Golden Freeza is an ant compared to anybody even remotely close to Blue level by the ToP.

What do you think about Goku's statement that only him or Vegeta could stop Freeza if he causes trouble (before knowing that Freeza got stronger)?

Also, I don't think Gohan's performance against Goku can mean something, when in the TOP, he showed to be no match for Base Toppo while having the assistance of 17.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

ToP Gohan told Freeza to behave or he’d kick his ass. Obviously Gohan isn’t beating ToP Freeza, but RoF Freeza gets obliterated here.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

ToP Gohan told Freeza to behave or he’d kick his ass. Obviously Gohan isn’t beating ToP Freeza, but RoF Freeza gets obliterated here.

I have to say that I used to think it in that way, but from an alternative perspective, Golden Freeza being able to damage Base Toppo that badly from behind makes me believe that Ultimate Gohan never stood any chance against Golden Freeza.

Goku told Vegeta that if Freeza causes trouble, either one of them could stop him, before he even knew that he got stronger, and after fighting Gohan by himself.

Spoiler

Of course, according to Vegeta's speech, Gohan also got stronger, but if anything; he made unquantifiable gains. Only thing we know is that he kept being weaker than Base Toppo.

 

[Goku9001]

In the anime, this is no contest. Ultimate Gohan was shown to at least be on par with Blue Goku prior to the Tournament of Power and Goku powered up from training in the RoSaT for 3 years, powered up after the U6 Tournament, powered up multiple times against Goku Black, and underwent a massive power-up against Merged Zamasu. This Goku, at least surpassed KKx10 Blue Goku when he fought Hit, given that Goku stalemated a stronger Hit who was actually trying to kill him.

Even in the manga, it's not really debatable. Ultimate Gohan managed to fight against SSJ Kefla whose power was a concern for Perfected Blue Goku and ToP Golden Frieza.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I have to say that I used to think it in that way, but from an alternative perspective, Golden Freeza being able to damage Base Toppo that badly from behind makes me believe that Ultimate Gohan never stood any chance against Golden Freeza.

Goku told Vegeta that if Freeza causes trouble, either one of them could stop him, before he even knew that he got stronger, and after fighting Gohan by himself.

Of course, according to Vegeta's speech, Gohan also got stronger, but if anything; he made unquantifiable gains. Only thing we know is that he kept being weaker than Base Toppo.

Freeza hurting Toppo was definitely a feat, Gohan's Kamehameha couldn't even scratch Toppo. I doubt Freeza would've done any better than Gohan if Toppo weren't so busy with 17 though, even Goku needed Kaio-Ken to keep up with Toppo.

Goku isn't saying only he and Vegeta can stop Freeza.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

Freeza hurting Toppo was definitely a feat, Gohan's Kamehameha couldn't even scratch Toppo. I doubt Freeza would've done any better than Gohan if Toppo weren't so busy with 17 though, even Goku needed Kaio-Ken to keep up with Toppo.

Goku isn't saying only he and Vegeta can stop Freeza.

Actually, you're right, my bad...

Episode: 93
Time: 05:51-05:06
Context: Goku tells what happens if Freeza betrays them
Goku: "It's fine. If Freeza betrays us, me or Vegeta'll defeat him."

What makes you think that Freeza is that inferior to Toppo...? His Kaioken level doesn't seem to be consistent with his feats, either... On top of that, Freeza can also end up being stronger than Goku considering that he never lost his Golden form while receiving the impact whereas Goku went back to his base form from Blue.

Spoiler

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

@Goku9001

Ultimate Gohan vs Ssj Blue Goku was basically an exchange of 2-3 blows, don't really know what conclussion can it be made by something like this...

Even though, I don't disagree that Goku surpassed his prior Kaioken x10 level just in his Blue form, he was still weaker than Hit given that he could've actually killed him once the fight ended, on top of that, Goku acknowledges that Hit is always one step ahead of him... As well as Champa thinks that an assassin couldn't enjoy fighting, but Vados told him that he is not fighting like an assassin, but more like an martial artist, so Hit was going easy on him...

Even then, none of those increases (some that did in fact happen, while others one not), would benefit Gohan on this.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Actually, you're right, my bad...

Episode: 93
Time: 05:51-05:06
Context: Goku tells what happens if Freeza betrays them
Goku: "It's fine. If Freeza betrays us, me or Vegeta'll defeat him."

What makes you think that Freeza is that inferior to Toppo...? His Kaioken level doesn't seem to be consistent with his feats, either... On top of that, Freeza can also end up being stronger than Goku considering that he never lost his Golden form while receiving the impact whereas Goku went back to his base form from Blue.

Goku mentioning himself and Vegeta specifically does sound curious, but he's still not excluding anyone. Gohan's statement to Freeza later still makes me think Freeza has to at least keep his guard up around him.

It looked pretty consistent. Goku and Toppo fight evenly for a bit, but then Toppo reveals he was suppressed and powers up, to which Goku responds saying he'll go beyond his limits and goes Kaio-Ken.

I think that speaks more about Freeza's durability since that very "fight" resulted in Beerus and Whis saying Goku and Freeza were equals. If Freeza is stronger it's by an insignificant amount.

 

[Animelover5487]

Actually, you're right, my bad...

Episode: 93
Time: 05:51-05:06
Context: Goku tells what happens if Freeza betrays them
Goku: "It's fine. If Freeza betrays us, me or Vegeta'll defeat him."

I think that is like the Freeza stating that he never thought there was anybody stronger than Ginyu after fighting Goku statement. Just really a generalization.

I do agree that Gohan and 17 are definitely weaker than the ToP Blue tiers but not by so much. Rose Black was stated to be the strongest character aside from the gods and Goku surpassed that him by the end of the arc as shown when his KHH overpowered Merged Zamasu's full powered blast and then kicked his face with a standard Kaioken.

ToP Blue tiers are easily 15-25x Rof Freeza, and I can't see Gohan being that weak.

 

[Goku9001]

@Goku9001

Ultimate Gohan vs Ssj Blue Goku was basically an exchange of 2-3 blows, don't really know what conclussion can it be made by something like this...

Even though, I don't disagree that Goku surpassed his prior Kaioken x10 level just in his Blue form, he was still weaker than Hit given that he could've actually killed him once the fight ended, on top of that, Goku acknowledges that Hit is always one step ahead of him... As well as Champa thinks that an assassin couldn't enjoy fighting, but Vados told him that he is not fighting like an assassin, but more like an martial artist, so Hit was going easy on him...

Even then, none of those increases (some that did in fact happen, while others one not), would benefit Gohan on this.

Nothing in that scene places Gohan as weaker than Blue Goku. If the message was that Gohan could not keep up with Goku, then Goku wouldn't have needed to power up. Instead, the narrative is clear with Ultimate Gohan pushing Goku to use power greater than SSJ2, and then being pushed again to use power greater than Blue.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

Nothing in that scene places Gohan as weaker than Blue Goku. If the message was that Gohan could not keep up with Goku, then Goku wouldn't have needed to power up. Instead, the narrative is clear with Ultimate Gohan pushing Goku to use power greater than SSJ2, and then being pushed again to use power greater than Blue.

Gohan literally begged Goku to go Blue:

Spoiler

Hmmm no, the scene doesn't show anything of how they compare to each other as it was something too ephimeral to be accurately judged.

Even judging things by perspective (because nothing clear is shown on this), then we have the supportment that Base Toppo seemed outclassed by SSj Blue Goku in relation to how Gohan performed, even though, Base Toppo > Ultimate Gohan.

 

[Goku9001]

Gohan literally begged Goku to go Blue:

Spoiler

View attachment 1718

Hmmm no, the scene doesn't show anything of how they compare to each other as it was something too ephimeral to be accurately judged.

Even judging things by perspective (because nothing clear is shown on this), then we have the supportment that Base Toppo seemed outclassed by SSj Blue Goku in relation to how Gohan performed, even though, Base Toppo > Ultimate Gohan.

The entire point of the scene is that Goku underestimated Gohan and didn't know what he was capable of doing. Gohan's statement of "Fight me at full strength" is indicative of Gohan not wanting Goku to hold back on him and he does that by briefly overwhelming Goku.

I know you like playing devil's advocate here but nothing in that scene places Gohan to be leagues below Blue Goku. You have no proof of that. You're just being a stubborn contrarian by suggesting "it doesn't have to mean this!" without providing any evidence for it. The straightforward interpretation was that Gohan was on that level since Goku was doing what Gohan had asked him to do and was pushing him beyond Blue. That's literally all there is to it.

Prior to the Tournament of Power, Goku actually needed Kaioken x10 Blue to fight Toppo.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

The entire point of the scene is that Goku underestimated Gohan and didn't know what he was capable of doing. Gohan's statement of "Fight me at full strength" is indicative of Gohan not wanting Goku to hold back on him and he does that by briefly overwhelming Goku.

I know you like playing devil's advocate here but nothing in that scene places Gohan to be leagues below Blue Goku. You have no proof of that. You're just being a stubborn contrarian by suggesting "it doesn't have to mean this!" without providing any evidence for it. The straightforward interpretation was that Gohan was on that level since Goku was doing what Gohan had asked him to do and was pushing him beyond Blue. That's literally all there is to it.

Prior to the Tournament of Power, Goku actually needed Kaioken x10 Blue to fight Toppo.

You would have actually a point if Gohan could've forced Goku to go Blue similar to how 17 did it with him, but Goku just did it because Gohan told him to do, not for any other particular reason.

Hmmm, no, nothing places Gohan leagues below Goku, but nothing places them as being equals neither to be close in power. Judging things by something that lasted mere seconds or happened in an instant, is absurd, so is your comment. Nothing clear is shown on this.

So, what? Goku going overkill against someone in Super isn't something new. Goku uses Blue to kill a heavily weakened 4th form Freeza, when maybe even base form should have been sufficient; Goku went Kaioken x10 Blue against Hit, even though, his regular Kaioken was enough to speedblitz him.

 

[Omhig]

Gohan was trading blows with SSB Goku he shitstomps that golden rat.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

Gohan was trading blows with SSB Goku he shitstomps that golden rat.

So, the results of a fight is determined by what happened on a scene that lasted mere seconds...?

 

[Omhig]

So, the results of a fight is determined by what happened on a scene that lasted mere seconds...?

If it's with a way stronger Goku then I'd say so.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

If it's with a way stronger Goku then I'd say so.

Okay, I guess Ssj Blue Goku from 122 can stomp anyone who is below Jiren's level, just because he was trading blows with him:

Spoiler

 

[Animelover5487]

Okay, I guess Ssj Blue Goku from 122 can stomp anyone who is below Jiren's level, just because he was trading blows with him:

Spoiler

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Tbf, in that circumstance Vegeta pointed out that Jiren wasn't using as much power as when he fought UI Goku in their first fight.