Toriyama treat Tenshinhan consistently?

[Captain Cadaver]

Back when facing Jackie Chun, Tenshinhan said he can copy a technique after seeing it once. We then see some truth to it when he copies the Mafuba, yet it's an ability that's quickly forgotten after this. What-if Toriyama didn't forget about this and Ten was indeed able to copy any technique (race specific skills such as SSJ not counting, of course)?

 

[Papasmurf]

I doubt he could copy the Makankosappo seeing as that attack took Piccolo years to create, much less perfect. He might be able to use the Sokidan or Kienzan (like his M9 self) though, but thats it

 

[Captain Cadaver]

I doubt he could copy the Makankosappo seeing as that attack took Piccolo years to create, much less perfect. He might be able to use the Sokidan or Kienzan (like his M9 self) though, but thats it

Hax God Roshi took 50 years to perfect the Kamehameha, but that didn't stop Tenshithands from working his magic

For the sake of the scenario though, we'll assume Ten can learn even the most high-level techniques as quickly as he did the Mafuba, so about a day or several.

 

[Papasmurf]

Roshi had to invent the attack though. Inventing's a whole different ball game than just copying.

He might possibly be able to copy the Super Kamehameha, considering he knows the basic variant and he saw it in the 23rd.

 

[VampireWicked]

I don't think Akira Toriyama forgot about it either, I think Tien & others could copy techniques after seeing them once but it was dropped due to it being a lack of character uniqueness & or overpoweredness, as well as defeats the point of training.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

I don't think Akira Toriyama forgot about it either, I think Tien & others could copy techniques after seeing them once but it was dropped due to it being a lack of character uniqueness & or overpoweredness,

If it was something overlooked due to it causing a lack of uniqueness, then that idea was executed poorly. Tenshinhan ended up being handled in such a way that the Kikoho tends to be the only technique he's given to use in the manga with how everyone else copied the Taiyoken and his other character-specific techniques (Shishin no Ken and Shiyou-ken) get completely overlooked in Z and only got a brief usage in the Super anime.
Furthermore, the majority of Goku's techniques were ones he took through observing or learning from others anyway, so there's really no difference, making it doubtful that was Toriyama's reasoning.

as well as defeats the point of training.

As do a lot of the power up methods as the series went on (Zenkais, rage boosts, potential unleashing, etc.), though that didn't stop Toriyama from milking those concepts.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Tori should've let the humans learn the Kaioken technique since it would be really helpful for them against the Androids and also at least it would keep them relevant to the base Saiyans at least.

 

[VampireWicked]

I don't think Akira Toriyama forgot about it either, I think Tien & others could copy techniques after seeing them once but it was dropped due to it being a lack of character uniqueness & or overpoweredness,

If it was something overlooked due to it causing a lack of uniqueness, then that idea was executed poorly. Tenshinhan ended up being handled in such a way that the Kikoho tends to be the only technique he's given to use in the manga with how everyone else copied the Taiyoken and his other character-specific techniques (Shishin no Ken and Shiyou-ken) get completely overlooked in Z and only got a brief usage in the Super anime.
Furthermore, the majority of Goku's techniques were ones he took through observing or learning from others anyway, so there's really no difference, making it doubtful that was Toriyama's reasoning.

That type of reasoning doesn't seem doubtful at all when the majority of Goku's techniques ARE learned from observation & he is the primary one that applies them all.
If too man other characters has that level of learning through simple observation then no one is all that different from the next, special attacks aren't so special when everyone has it or can do it.

Why spit out multiple recurring characters in a fighting genre using the same techniques repeatedly across the board with only personality, PowerLevel, race separating them.

I think Toriyama realized this & simply toned down that ability in keeping Tien more of his own character with his own signature techniques.
Yes I think Tien could be developed more but maybe it's character appeal.

As do a lot of the power up methods as the series went on (Zenkais, rage boosts, potential unleashing, etc.), though that didn't stop Toriyama from milking those concepts.

Yes but Zenkai, Rage Boosts, are unique to a specific race namely Saiyans.
Potential unleashing is just a matter of utilization of one's own abilities.
They can be applied widely across the board but still can keep characters seemly less like the next fighter with cloned techniques.

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

Tien copies SSJG, and becomes the strongest character in the show.

 

[Pyro]

He'd be like Majin Boo then in that regard. Not very helpful overall.

 

[SSJ2]

He'd be like Majin Boo then in that regard. Not very helpful overall.

You’ve been a Tenshinhan hater for 10 years. Your bias is showing.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

If too man other characters has that level of learning through simple observation then no one is all that different from the next, special attacks aren't so special when everyone has it or can do it.

Not really. Most of the special attacks as the series goes forward don't really have that much difference in what the skills do (eg. Vegeta's special techniques all amount to being big Ki blasts of different colours) and having mimicry isn't the same as mastery. It adds more of a jack of all trades option, with Ten having many skills to fall back on yet only a few he has fully mastered.

Not only that, but let's take the Shin Kikoho. From what we can infer with Ten talking about how he'd give the fundamentals of Kaio's training his own spin, it can be argued that the Shin Kikoho is Ten applying some of the principles of Kaioken to the Kikoho. That said, copying techniques doesn't mean a character would become a complete clone when it comes to combat if they can utilise what they've learnt to develop their own variations or combinations of certain skills. Hell, we even saw with Cell that having an arsenal of other people's techniques could still be utilised in a creative way.

Also, this would be running on the generalisation that special techniques alone define a character's fighting style, which is far from true. In hand-to-hand combat, there's a clear difference to how someone like Ten carries himself and makes his strikes compared to someone such as, say, Goku or Vegeta.

Why spit out multiple recurring characters in a fighting genre using the same techniques repeatedly across the board with only personality, PowerLevel, race separating them.

A more important question would be why spit out multiple recurring characters and make most of them irrelevant through their differences in battle power and race being defining factors.

I think Toriyama realized this & simply toned down that ability in keeping Tien more of his own character with his own signature techniques.
Yes I think Tien could be developed more but maybe it's character appeal.

And he did so in the worst possible way by making him the guy who does a Kikoho and then becomes fodder.
Also, this is all meta reasoning that doesn't tackle the more important factor of there being no explanation in-universe. All it'd take would be for Toriyama to have Tenshinhan state something along the lines of "Not even I can copy a technique so refined!" and leave that as a benchmark for Ten's ability, but simply ignoring this for something like balance or Ten's fading character relevancy is just lazy writing. The only time you could sort of argue

Yes but Zenkai, Rage Boosts, are unique to a specific race namely Saiyans.
Potential unleashing is just a matter of utilization of one's own abilities.
They can be applied widely across the board but still can keep characters seemly less like the next fighter with cloned techniques.

Still doesn't change the fact that they're plot devices that defeat the point of training, more so than copying someone's techniques that can still lead to them needing to be refined or improved.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

That would make a difference only if he watched the Freeza Saga events from the afterlife and could somehow copy Ginyu's/Guldo's special abilities. In any other case, he'd have remained as useless as now.

 

[VampireWicked]

Not really. Most of the special attacks as the series goes forward don't really have that much difference in what the skills do (eg. Vegeta's special techniques all amount to being big Ki blasts of different colours) and having mimicry isn't the same as mastery. It adds more of a jack of all trades option, with Ten having many skills to fall back on yet only a few he has fully mastered.

No specials don't have much difference between them but they signify they belong to a specific character.
What signifies Saitama as one punch man if every character can defeat an enemy in 1 hit.

Yes multiple characters in DragonBall use the same attacks but it's also what other techniques they have that separates them fom everyone else.

2. Mimicry isn't the same as Mastery I agree it gives a jack of all trades element but it phones in techniques. It's laziness.

Not only that, but let's take the Shin Kikoho. From what we can infer with Ten talking about how he'd give the fundamentals of Kaio's training his own spin, it can be argued that the Shin Kikoho is Ten applying some of the principles of Kaioken to the Kikoho. That said, copying techniques doesn't mean a character would become a complete clone when it comes to combat if they can utilise what they've learnt to develop their own variations or combinations of certain skills. Hell, we even saw with Cell that having an arsenal of other people's techniques could still be utilised in a creative way.

Introducing a new spin or different principles on a mimicked attack is a great way of establishing & applying the ability of learning through observation.
When it's new spins/different principles are added, otherwise there isn't much reason for it.

Also, this would be running on the generalisation that special techniques alone define a character's fighting style, which is far from true. In hand-to-hand combat, there's a clear difference to how someone like Ten carries himself and makes his strikes compared to someone such as, say, Goku or Vegeta.

IT doesn't suggest that at all, it suggest there's more to the character then reusing regurgitated attacks & they weren't just lazily written.
That special or uniqueness adds a layer of interest, not just a different character using the same techniques.

Tien using his own techniques or applying his own spin makes him interesting.
It's seeing how he uses those attacks, watching him develop his own style & attacks.

A more important question would be why spit out multiple recurring characters and make most of them irrelevant through their differences in battle power and race being defining factors.

It's not differences in battle power, race, personality that's the problem.
Having multiple diverse characters all using the same techniques causes a majority to become irrelevant.
If there was a team of 12 what sense does it make to have all of them be Goku.
They aren't Power Rangers or Voltron.

And he did so in the worst possible way by making him the guy who does a Kikoho and then becomes fodder.
Also, this is all meta reasoning that doesn't tackle the more important factor of there being no explanation in-universe. All it'd take would be for Toriyama to have Tenshinhan state something along the lines of "Not even I can copy a technique so refined!" and leave that as a benchmark for Ten's ability, but simply ignoring this for something like balance or Ten's fading character relevancy is just lazy writing. The only time you could sort of argue

But then that would be a commonly abused excuse.
Maybe it's as i said, appeal.
Maybe Toriyama doesn't care enough about Tien anymore.

Still doesn't change the fact that they're plot devices that defeat the point of training, more so than copying someone's techniques that can still lead to them needing to be refined or improved.

Everything can be refined but they're still more interesting then another character using the Kamehameha.


I get what you're saying that's why I think the best thing for characters like Tien would be to split up the series as to develop the lesser characters in their own arcs.

Mixed up pairs, break them up into smaller groups & plop them down into world breaking Arcs.
Let Tien & Yamcha go up against enemies of Namek Frieza Level or whatever.
Etc.