UI Goku (ToP) + Jiren (Beyond Limits) vs Gogeta SSJ (Super Broly Movie)?

[SIAD]

UI Goku (ToP) + Jiren (Beyond Limits) vs Gogeta SSJ (Super Broly Movie)?

 

[Papasmurf]

I think you mean SSJB Gogeta? Because SSJ Gogeta gets rapestomped, he's on the same level as SSJ Broly

 

[GSM123]

I think you mean SSJB Gogeta? Because SSJ Gogeta gets rapestomped, he's on the same level as SSJ Broly

SSJ Broly > UI Goku though, but probably not by enough that he or Gogeta can take on both Goku and Jiren.

 

[Papasmurf]

SSJ Broly > UI Goku though, but probably not by enough that he or Gogeta can take on both Goku and Jiren.

??? UI Goku is near Hakaishin tier, it takes SSJFP Broly yo barely surpass Beerus in just raw strength

 

[GSM123]

??? UI Goku is near Hakaishin tier, it takes SSJFP Broly yo barely surpass Beerus in just raw strength

The novelization adds some lines from the narrator or Freeza about how no one could beat SSJ1 Broly. Logically gods like Zeno and Whis are excluded, but I don’t see why Goku and Jiren would be.

It was without a doubt, no being that could've won against this Broly existed. After the beating he had received, this much was clear to him. To Frieza, he represented a potential powerful weapon.

 

[Papasmurf]

The novelization adds some lines from the narrator or Freeza about how no one could beat SSJ1 Broly. Logically gods like Zeno and Whis are excluded, but I don’t see why Goku and Jiren would be.

Could just be referring to everyone in U7, which makes far more sense when two SSJBs could put up some minimal resistance against SSJ Broly while even UI Sign Galu would get raped by Beyond Limits Jiren.

 

[SIAD]

Could just be referring to everyone in U7, which makes far more sense when two SSJBs could put up some minimal resistance against SSJ Broly while even UI Sign Galu would get raped by Beyond Limits Jiren.

It should also include UI Goku, as there was a slim chance of getting that status. While in that statement it is mentioned that no one could have defeated Broly SSJ. I think Broly SSJ got too strong after using Golden Freeza as a punching bag for over an hour.

 

[GSM123]

Could just be referring to everyone in U7, which makes far more sense when two SSJBs could put up some minimal resistance against SSJ Broly while even UI Sign Galu would get raped by Beyond Limits Jiren.

I doubt it because the narrator specifically says nobody this strong exists period. In comparison, Moro and Granolah are specifically compared to beings in their universe (“Strength surpassing the very gods” and “strongest warrior in the universe”), while Broly is just compared to pretty much everyone.

Goku and Vegeta hardly did anything to Broly. They land a solid hit together, but afterwards their combined beams just gets run over by Broly.

 

[SIAD]

I doubt it because the narrator specifically says nobody this strong exists period. In comparison, Moro and Granolah are specifically compared to beings in their universe (“Strength surpassing the very gods” and “strongest warrior in the universe”), while Broly is just compared to pretty much everyone.

Goku and Vegeta hardly did anything to Broly. They land a solid hit together, but afterwards their combined beams just gets run over by Broly.

Yes, it is that Broly SSJ does a power-up in between.

I really like to think of Broly SSJ increasing his power considerably while crushing Golden Freeza.

 

[Papasmurf]

I doubt it because the narrator specifically says nobody this strong exists period. In comparison, Moro and Granolah are specifically compared to beings in their universe (“Strength surpassing the very gods” and “strongest warrior in the universe”), while Broly is just compared to pretty much everyone.

Goku and Vegeta hardly did anything to Broly. They land a solid hit together, but afterwards their combined beams just gets run over by Broly.

Except that the jump in power from SSJ1 to SSJ FP was large enough that Gogeta had to resort to shortening his Fusion time significantly with Blue rather than SSJ2/3 or God, and even with that Gogeta is far inferior to Whis. If Broly in SSJ1 is already in Hakaishin tier, then that would make the power jump from those forms practically worthless.

Galu and Vegeta still weren't immediately blitzed and one-shotted, and managed to outmaneuver Broly enough to put Freeza in his way and then flee. Hardly what I'd call a difference between Blue tier and Hakaishin tier.

 

[SIAD]

I think there is a huge difference between the more powerful Hakaishins over the less powerful Hakaishins.

 

[Papasmurf]

I think there is a huge difference between the more powerful Hakaishins over the less powerful Hakaishins.

I have trouble believing the difference is anywhere near 2x. I've still yet to see anything that disproves the 10-15 ratio between Beerus and Whis tbh.

Difference between SSJ and unmastered SSJB is already over 10x, and appears to be around that in the Broly movie as well based on the Ikari form managing to outperform God but not Blue. No way in hell there's that ridiculously vast a difference between Hakaishins.

 

[SIAD]

I have trouble believing the difference is anywhere near 2x. I've still yet to see anything that disproves the 10-15 ratio between Beerus and Whis tbh.

Difference between SSJ and unmastered SSJB is already over 10x, and appears to be around that in the Broly movie as well based on the Ikari form managing to outperform God but not Blue. No way in hell there's that ridiculously vast a difference between Hakaishins.

So how do you do it?

Jiren (FP) beats Belmod. UI Goku easily beats Jiren (FP). A tremendously more powerful UI Goku, is very inferior to MY Vegeta, the latter is inferior to Granolah, the latter is inferior to Gas (when he gets used to it) and the latter is and will continue to be inferior to Beerus.

 

[Papasmurf]

So how do you do it?

Jiren (FP) beats Belmod. UI Goku easily beats Jiren (FP). A tremendously more powerful UI Goku, is very inferior to MY Vegeta, the latter is inferior to Granolah, the latter is inferior to Gas (when he gets used to it) and the latter is and will continue to be inferior to Beerus.

FP Jiren still managed to outlast UI Galu so the gap isn't particularly vast, unlike when UI Galu absolutely stomped OG73 Moro. Beerus' power is honestly getting retconned in every arc, but I would wager the power they compared him to when making comparisons to people like FT arc Vegetto or Broly is his power without Ultra Ego activated, plus he also said "there's no ceiling to my power" which might mean his power increases continually for the same reasons that Vegeta's does every time he's hit. Would honestly be a better explanation than anything Toyotaro could come up with lol

 

[GSM123]

A tremendously more powerful UI Goku, is very inferior to MY Vegeta

YOUR Vegeta?

FP Jiren still managed to outlast UI Galu so the gap isn't particularly vast, unlike when UI Galu absolutely stomped OG73 Moro. Beerus' power is honestly getting retconned in every arc, but I would wager the power they compared him to when making comparisons to people like FT arc Vegetto or Broly is his power without Ultra Ego activated, plus he also said "there's no ceiling to my power" which might mean his power increases continually for the same reasons that Vegeta's does every time he's hit. Would honestly be a better explanation than anything Toyotaro could come up with lol

Isn’t Ultra Ego something Vegeta came up himself? It’s based on Beerus teachint, but the growing power bs is a Saiyan trait.

 

[SIAD]

FP Jiren still managed to outlast UI Galu so the gap isn't particularly vast, unlike when UI Galu absolutely stomped OG73 Moro. Beerus' power is honestly getting retconned in every arc, but I would wager the power they compared him to when making comparisons to people like FT arc Vegetto or Broly is his power without Ultra Ego activated, plus he also said "there's no ceiling to my power" which might mean his power increases continually for the same reasons that Vegeta's does every time he's hit. Would honestly be a better explanation than anything Toyotaro could come up with lol

So you think Hakaishins have a Base state and a Mega Instinct (MI) state?

And what about the confrontation between Vegetto SSJBE vs Beerus? Vegeta SSJBE had surpassed Broly LSSJ. Beerus was using the UI state?

 

[SIAD]

YOUR Vegeta?




Isn’t Ultra Ego something Vegeta came up himself? It’s based on Beerus teachint, but the growing power bs is a Saiyan trait.

MI = Mega Instinct

 

[Papasmurf]

YOUR Vegeta?




Isn’t Ultra Ego something Vegeta came up himself? It’s based on Beerus teachint, but the growing power bs is a Saiyan trait.

I don't think it is tbh. It was already established that Goku and Vegeta both lost the ability to grow in power every time they're defeated long before the FT arc, the growth in power appears to be from the mindset of enjoying rampant, wanton destruction which Vegeta hasn't even perfected yet due to his softer heart.

 

[GSM123]

@Kenshi interesting. When did Beerus say his power had no ceiling?

 

[GSM123]

Found it