Updates

[withheldforprivacy]

Explain

http://www.dbzeta.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=11181&p=268501&hilit=ssj2+gohan+three+powers#p268501

 

[p123]

Logically, Gohan should be a Super Saiyan 2. There's not too many issues with it either, it works better imo. You have to change the story a bit, but it seems better imo.

 

[ahill1]

What about base > Piccolo?

 

[p123]

No that shit is stupid. Piccolo should still be somewhere around 50% Super Saiyan like we was before. That thing has to be talking about full power. You have to disregard some of the power quotes, but realistically, in a perfect world, rewriting the Buu Saga with proper quote would require Gohan to be a Super Saiyan 2.

Just how easily can we fix this?

I think fixing two or three Kaioshin quotes, maybe one Gohan quote, a Vegeta quote or two, yep, it's adding up quick. Goku's quote has to be changed too.
Damn...

 

[ahill1]

No that shit is stupid. Piccolo should still be somewhere around 50% Super Saiyan like we was before. That thing has to be talking about full power. You have to disregard some of the power quotes, but realistically, in a perfect world, rewriting the Buu Saga with proper quote would require Gohan to be a Super Saiyan 2.

Just how easily can we fix this?

I think fixing two or three Kaioshin quotes, maybe one Gohan quote, a Vegeta quote or two, yep, it's adding up quick. Goku's quote has to be changed too.
Damn...

Maybe we can have the base Saiyajins as above 50% Goku as well.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

No that shit is stupid. Piccolo should still be somewhere around 50% Super Saiyan like we was before. That thing has to be talking about full power. You have to disregard some of the power quotes, but realistically, in a perfect world, rewriting the Buu Saga with proper quote would require Gohan to be a Super Saiyan 2.

Just how easily can we fix this?

I think fixing two or three Kaioshin quotes, maybe one Gohan quote, a Vegeta quote or two, yep, it's adding up quick. Goku's quote has to be changed too.
Damn...

Except nothing implies Piccolo is anywhere near 50% Goku man, he himself admits so. That doesn't debunk the Boo Arc implications either. If Piccolo is somehow implied to be 50% Goku but < Base Saiyans, be it, retcon or not.

Most of the SSJ Gohan supporters think SSJ2 Gohan got retconed, so Kaioshin is only refering to base or SSJ, or nothing happened at all. The way everyone acts at the Spaceship seems to imply so, and the only time Shin mentions paralyzing Gohan he even says Gohan wasn't full power.

 

[ahill1]

For SSJ to make sense:

--> Have Gohan displaying merely the SSJ1 at the Tournament;

--> Change Goku's comparison of Dabura to Cell to something like "He is about as strong as the Cell I have fought", and then later change the "He is way stronger than I thought" to "He is way tougher than I thought", like VIZ does.

For SSJ2 to make sense:

--> Have Gohan's aura when fighting Dabura filled with sparks;

--> Cut out the scene in which Gohan and Kaioshin are apparently surprised with Goku and Vegeta fighting at a level beyond the SSJ, as well as ignoring Goku's surprise towards Vegeta having SSJ2.


The latter wich isn't even necessary, tbh. If Gohan's aura was depicted with constant sparks, I doubt anyone would still argue he was a SSJ1. It'd solve basically all the issues pertaining to this debate.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

You also have to cut Gohan saying he was going to use his "True power" against Boo, which implies he wasn't full power on Dabra. And you also have to cut the implications of SSJ Vegeta > Dabra (Though half of them go away if Goku knows Vegeta had SSJ2). Damn, the SSJ2 side requires so much changes. I aways though Gohan being SSJ2 was a huge reaching.

Btw, i'd like to share something new i found a few weeks ago. It's about Base Gotenks Pre:
Chapter: 467 (DBZ 273), P1.2-3
Trunks: “N-no! We’ll fight too! You’ll be killed on your own, papa! We’ll definitely be able to defeat him if we 3 do it together!”
Vegeta: “It’s no use…No matter how many of us go at him…Not if we fight in the ordinary way…”
Trunks flat out says Vegeta is powerless against Boo but Gotenks (Who has Trunks personality on him) thinks he can beat Boo. Of course, Trunks saw it, but you know how the Daizenshuuists are when it's not like Dora the explorer with everything being thrown at you.

 

[ahill1]

It might be merely cockiness from receiving a huge power up like Kibitoshin, until Elder Kaioshin and Piccolo showed them the reality.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

People still use Kibitoshin's confidence as a measure stick to say he's SSJ2 tier but Elder Kaioshin's to say he's not above that though. Same with Gotenks.

 

[ahill1]

Why would he be that confident though if he were below SSJ3 Goku? He also knew SSJ3 Goku was no match for Bootenks, who was the opponent he was willing to face.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Yeah, that further solidifies my point. The fact that he even thought he could be helpful implies he's hella strong. Same applies for Gotenks.

 

[ahill1]

So you think he is stronger than SSJ3 Goku?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Perhaps. He did stay behind to not fight, after all. While it's possible Vegeta just wanted to stay because he likes fighting or something else, he would definitely stay if he was stronger than Goku and could solo Boo, or at least team up on him.

 

[ahill1]

He is an ant to Bootenks, so his confidence is unreasonable no matter how you look at it.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Why you said he's SSJ3 level then?

 

[p123]

Kid Buu would mollywhop Kibitoshin. I saw your opinion on another thread and honestly, it's the dumbest shit I ever heard. That ruins the whole story.

There's a lot of moving parts with the Super Saiyan 2 issue. Also, it reduces the drama around Gohan's rage, if Gohan's true power is only Super Saiyan 2. Gohan is seen as someone special. I think he's supposed to get a rage boost. I think that's the only way you can justify some of this stuff.

Damn...


Enraged Teen Gohan (Potentially) > SSJ2 Goku/Majin Vegeta > Enraged Kid Gohan > SSJ2 Vegeta > SSJ2 Gohan ~ Dabura


Perhaps that is the way to go.