Vegeta and Trunks SSjin2 Forms

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Manga Version...

Is it possible that Vegeta unlocked an extended version of SSjin2 against Beerus is a similar form that Trunks used against Goku during their fight? After all, Vegeta's SSjin2 was too strong for SSjin Black to handle while Base Black is stronger than SSjin3 Goku according to Trunks.

 

[Flame]

I think they're two different forms. It was stated that Trunks increased his power nearly as much as Super Saiyan 3. So that means, it's still an inferior boost to Super Saiyan 3. Meanwhile, Vegeta who is more or less Goku's equal, his Super Saiyan 2 was even stronger than Super Saiyan 3. I tend to believe it's the form he used against Beerus when he hit Bulma. It's also possible that he didn't have access to this form, until the battle against Black. Since Vegeta's rage against Black was because he killed Future Bulma, a similar goal is in mind.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Since Vegeta's rage against Black was because he killed Future Bulma, a similar goal is in mind.

He didn't find that out until after PSSB Goku's fight with Merged Zamasu though.

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I'd say either rage boost against Beerus unlocking more power for his SS2 form in specific or Trunks teaching his father how to unlock SS2's full power are the only options that really make much sense.

 

[CroMagnumDVH]

Manga Version...

Is it possible that Vegeta unlocked an extended version of SSjin2 against Beerus is a similar form that Trunks used against Goku during their fight? After all, Vegeta's SSjin2 was too strong for SSjin Black to handle while Base Black is stronger than SSjin3 Goku according to Trunks.

Nah, not even implied at all. If anything, Goku can be implied to have held back against Trunks, or simply an inconsistency since using the logic of Ssj2 Vegeta > Base Black > Ssj3 Goku, Ssj2 Vegeta could get scaled above SsjG Goku which is facepalming to say the least. Vegeta hasn't achieved a new form. No one noted that, and the comments were about Vegeta increasing his power rather than form.

 

[CroMagnumDVH]

He didn't find that out until after PSSB Goku's fight with Merged Zamasu though.

He found out about it before:

Spoiler

If anything, Toyotaro forgot. So it falls down to whether you believe the former or the latter

 

[Captain Cadaver]

In cases of retcon, the later instance is usually the one to be taken into account, given nobody in the series follows Trunks stating #19 and #20 were the Artificial Humans from his timeline once he refutes it.

 

[CroMagnumDVH]

In cases of retcon, the later instance is usually the one to be taken into account, given nobody in the series follows Trunks stating #19 and #20 were the Artificial Humans from his timeline once he refutes it.

By that logic Piccolo would be stronger than Gotenks. Yes, it falls down to whether you take the former or the latter, but there must be a basis to which one you're choosing. A solid one from the same case, and not red herring

 

[Captain Cadaver]

By that logic Piccolo would be stronger than Gotenks.

Based on? Unless you're talking about his U6 Arc self and onwards, there's nothing to suggest that to be the case.

Yes, it falls down to whether you take the former or the latter, but there must be a basis to which one you're choosing. A solid one from the same case, and not red herring

And the later instance if given enough prominence for Vegeta to have a rage boost, whereas the earlier instance is quickly brushed aside.

 

[CroMagnumDVH]

Based on? Unless you're talking about his U6 Arc self and onwards, there's nothing to suggest that to be the case.

No, the Buu Saga. The Buutenks case implies Piccolo > Base Gotenks if you accept the latter

And the later instance if given enough prominence for Vegeta to have a rage boost, whereas the earlier instance is quickly brushed aside.

I don't disagree with you, nor trying to tell you that I agree. I have another take on the matter regarding the "rage boost".

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Based on? Unless you're talking about his U6 Arc self and onwards, there's nothing to suggest that to be the case.

No, the Buu Saga. The Buutenks case implies Piccolo > Base Gotenks if you accept the latter

Or Piccolo > Base Kids?

 

[CroMagnumDVH]

Based on? Unless you're talking about his U6 Arc self and onwards, there's nothing to suggest that to be the case.

No, the Buu Saga. The Buutenks case implies Piccolo > Base Gotenks if you accept the latter

Or Piccolo > Base Kids?

The latter implies Piccolo > Base Gotenks, but I don't take this as a point at all since Pre ROSAT Ssj Goten is above Piccolo in my book. This point proves that Pre ROSAT Ssj Gotenks > Post ROSAT Base Gotenks

 

[Void]

I don't see how it implies Piccolo > Base Gotenks at all. The kids defused when Boo changed, Goku tells us as much when he said the kids reverted back and Piccolo is coming out on top. Boo has Goten and Trunks inside him in separate pods. All it implies is Piccolo > Base kids.

 

[CroMagnumDVH]

I don't see how it implies Piccolo > Base Gotenks at all. The kids defused when Boo changed, Goku tells us as much when he said the kids reverted back and Piccolo is coming out on top. Boo has Goten and Trunks inside him in separate pods. All it implies is Piccolo > Base kids.

Basically, Trunks said that Ssj3's weakness is that it makes them revert to normal. Against Super Buu, the "normal" was referring to Base Gotenks. So the latter is basically saying that Gotenks reverts back to base form rather than splitting

Obviously this is an inconsistency, and ironically El Manga Legendario is the only guide I found which strictly says Gotenks split to 2 people. So I take El Manga Legendario's words really hard since it has so many clarified information that Daizenshuu and other guides don't

Translation:

"The fusion of Gotenks ceases to take effect inside Bu, whose power diminished. Only the presence of Piccolo is shown. By absorbing a fighter from Gohan's level, Bu reaches a power without time limit. Without the fusion between Goku and Vegeta, he would have been invincible."

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

I don't see how it implies Piccolo > Base Gotenks at all. The kids defused when Boo changed, Goku tells us as much when he said the kids reverted back and Piccolo is coming out on top. Boo has Goten and Trunks inside him in separate pods. All it implies is Piccolo > Base kids.

Basically, Trunks said that Ssj3's weakness is that it makes them revert to normal. Against Super Buu, the "normal" was referring to Base Gotenks. So the latter is basically saying that Gotenks reverts back to base form rather than splitting

Obviously this is an inconsistency, and ironically El Manga Legendario is the only guide I found which strictly says Gotenks split to 2 people. So I take El Manga Legendario's words really hard since it has so many clarified information that Daizenshuu and other guides don't

Translation:

"The fusion of Gotenks ceases to take effect inside Bu, whose power diminished. Only the presence of Piccolo is shown. By absorbing a fighter from Gohan's level, Bu reaches a power without time limit. Without the fusion between Goku and Vegeta, he would have been invincible."

Chapter: 502 (DBZ 308), P10.4-5
Goku: “Hahha—ah! Piccolo’s coming out strong now! Looks like the Fused squirts have returned to normal! You ran out of time! Tooo—oo bad! Your power’s fallen a whole lot. Cheh…I’m a little disappointed. This way, Gohan will be able to beat you even on his own…”
Note: presumably be saying that "the Fused squirts have returned to normal", Goku means that Gotenks has split back up into Goten and Trunks, not merely that Gotenks' reverted from Super Saiyan 3 to regular Gotenks. At the very least, Goten and Trunks are separate by the time Goku and Vegeta find them inside of Boo.

Seems to me that it implies Gotenks defuses than Gotenks SS3 form is done.

 

[CroMagnumDVH]

Chapter: 502 (DBZ 308), P10.4-5
Goku: “Hahha—ah! Piccolo’s coming out strong now! Looks like the Fused squirts have returned to normal! You ran out of time! Tooo—oo bad! Your power’s fallen a whole lot. Cheh…I’m a little disappointed. This way, Gohan will be able to beat you even on his own…”
Note: presumably be saying that "the Fused squirts have returned to normal", Goku means that Gotenks has split back up into Goten and Trunks, not merely that Gotenks' reverted from Super Saiyan 3 to regular Gotenks. At the very least, Goten and Trunks are separate by the time Goku and Vegeta find them inside of Boo.

Seems to me that it implies Gotenks defuses than Gotenks SS3 form is done.

No. Goku in here says that the "Fused squirts" (refering strictly to fusion) returned back to normal. The latter refers to "normal" as base Gotenks:

Chapter: 499 (DBZ 305), P4.4
Context: Boo says Goten and Trunks are scared to fight him
Trunks: “Looks like you don’t understand a thing! If we hadn’t returned to normal back then, we definitely would have won that fight!”