Vegeta SSJ -- post RoSaT

[ahill1]

It's weird when you look at it. Ppl infer from Trunks' surprise at Vegeta already going SSJg2 that he was on par with initial Semi Cell or perhaps even above as SSJ1... yet 16 is the only one to notice an increase from Vegeta while he's in SSJ. Piccolo looked at Vegeta SSJ and merely said for Vegeta to show what lies beyond, not even giving much attention to the SSJ1... and once Vegeta started transforming, it's then that he shits bricks, same with Tenshinhan, putting all the emphasis on the grade state.

Yet when you look at the numbers, Vegeta's SSJ1 progress was way bigger (going from below 18 to competing with someone who demolished 16 in one blow). SSJg2 would be like the cherry on top... yet it doesn't match the reactions.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Yeah I never understood that either. Vegeta has gotten like 10x stronger, but it’s the 1.5x buff up he does that everyone freaks out about.

 

[SSJ2]

Because Piccolo already sensed his Base power so could extrapolate how strong his Super Saiyan form would be. There was no reason for him to be surprised. Grade 2 was uncharted territory and it was thought to be impossible for Super Saiyan to be ascended, that's why Piccolo was putting more emphasis on it.

 

[ahill1]

Because Piccolo already sensed his Base power so could extrapolate how strong his Super Saiyan form would be. There was no reason for him to be surprised. Grade 2 was uncharted territory and it was thought to be impossible for Super Saiyan to be ascended, that's why Piccolo was putting more emphasis on it.

Piccolo was clearly surprised when he saw Vegeta saying he was going to take care of Cell... so I doubt he calculated his SSJ power based on his base power.

 

[Yoshi]

Off topic, but I have SSJG2 at a x2 boost. People tend to give Grade 2 a small boost in general. I used to have Initial Semi Perfect Cell equal to SSJ Vegeta, but in order to make the implications work, you have to improvise. Going by Trunks' reaction to Vegeta going Grade 2 already, I have Semi Perfect Cell equal to SSJ Trunks now, who is only slightly weaker than SSJ Vegeta, because Trunks seems to think that Vegeta can already defeat Cell in his current state, and Cell wasn't at full power, so he was still confident.

 

[SSJ2]

Piccolo was clearly surprised when he saw Vegeta saying he was going to take care of Cell... so I doubt he calculated his SSJ power based on his base power.

When they first left the RoSaT? I'm referring to later on when Vegeta flew away from Kami's Palace. He was flying in Base and transformed into Super Saiyan on the way to Cell, so Piccolo was already familiar with his battle power.

 

[Papasmurf]

Off topic, but I have SSJG2 at a x2 boost. People tend to give Grade 2 a small boost in general. I used to have Initial Semi Perfect Cell equal to SSJ Vegeta, but in order to make the implications work, you have to improvise. Going by Trunks' reaction to Vegeta going Grade 2 already, I have Semi Perfect Cell equal to SSJ Trunks now, who is only slightly weaker than SSJ Vegeta, because Trunks seems to think that Vegeta can already defeat Cell in his current state, and Cell wasn't at full power, so he was still confident.

Grade 2 wouldn't have been tossed in the mud for Grade 4 if it were like using Kaio-ken on top of SSJ. This was before SSJ mastery (Goku was only somewhat above Semi Cell in Grade 3 at the time), so the "grade multipliers decrease with SSJ mastery" argument doesn't work either.

 

[ahill1]

When they first left the RoSaT? I'm referring to later on when Vegeta flew away from Kami's Palace. He was flying in Base and transformed into Super Saiyan on the way to Cell, so Piccolo was already familiar with his battle power.

He was flying in base, but I fail to see why he'd use more power than he was already using when Piccolo from the Raditz saga could already travel long distances when flying. Plus, even if he saw how strong base Vegeta was there, I'd imagine he'd have noted it then. "Damn, now I see how much Vegeta has improved in base, his SSJ is huge now"... rather the emphasis seemed entirely put on grade 2 and when we look at the spacing gaps, the gains Vegeta got while just in SSJ dwarfs that of the grade 2 boost unless this latter was a 10x+ boost. I think AT just didn't pay much attention to this all.


@Kenshi

It doesn't make sense no matter which way you look at it. 1.3x is still a very large boost, so Goku ditching the state in favor of better stamina and control sounds contrived all the same. Goku used Kaioken x3 knowing all the risks it begets and the boost it had on top of the standard Kaioken is 1.5x.

 

[Ultimate Cell]

I have Grade 2 1.5x SS while Grade 3 is 2x Grade 2 so if SS is 50x then grade 2 is 75x SS while grade 3 is 150x SS.

 

[SSJ2]

@ahill is obese because it would be bad writing for Piccolo to cream himself over SSJ Vegeta’s gains, and then act as if the new form is insignificant. Vegeta already established at Kami’s Palace that he was going to destroy Cell. Toriyama then established SSJ Vegeta’s power through both 16 and Trunks, so it would’ve been redundant for Piccolo to have also commented on it. Grade 2 was the difference maker in the fight, and seeing as it was the new form it deserved the attention it got. Also considering SSJ Vegeta never powered up after transforming in flight, it’s fair to say that he was at full power when he was flying in Base before that. Regardless, Piccolo still sensed SSJ Vegeta’s ki before he got to Cell, therefore there was no reason for him to be shocked about his power later on.

 

[Papasmurf]

Lol @ Curtis typing that ahill is obese account rather than ahill's actual username

 

[ahill1]

@ahill is obese because it would be bad writing for Piccolo to cream himself over SSJ Vegeta’s gains, and then act as if the new form is insignificant. Vegeta already established at Kami’s Palace that he was going to destroy Cell. Toriyama then established SSJ Vegeta’s power through both 16 and Trunks, so it would’ve been redundant for Piccolo to have also commented on it. Grade 2 was the difference maker in the fight, and seeing as it was the new form it deserved the attention it got. Also considering SSJ Vegeta never powered up after transforming in flight, it’s fair to say that he was at full power when he was flying in Base before that. Regardless, Piccolo still sensed SSJ Vegeta’s ki before he got to Cell, therefore there was no reason for him to be shocked about his power later on.

It wouldn't be bad writing. It'd be something normal to have in face of that huge power up. No one commented on that except 16. They could have easily cut back to Piccolo saying "what outrageous power". Or having him say that when Vegeta was trash talking Cell before transforming. A power up that blows grade 2 out of the water was just not given the proper respect.

 

[Hector]

It's weird when you look at it. Ppl infer from Trunks' surprise at Vegeta already going SSJg2 that he was on par with initial Semi Cell or perhaps even above as SSJ1... yet 16 is the only one to notice an increase from Vegeta while he's in SSJ. Piccolo looked at Vegeta SSJ and merely said for Vegeta to show what lies beyond, not even giving much attention to the SSJ1... and once Vegeta started transforming, it's then that he shits bricks, same with Tenshinhan, putting all the emphasis on the grade state.

Yet when you look at the numbers, Vegeta's SSJ1 progress was way bigger (going from below 18 to competing with someone who demolished 16 in one blow). SSJg2 would be like the cherry on top... yet it doesn't match the reactions.

Perhaps Sixteen was sensing Vegeta's SSJG2 power, just like Krillin sensed Trunks' SSJG3 power before Trunks transformed.

 

[ahill1]

Trunks' comment is the thing tho.