Vegeta's quote on the fake androids power

[Future Warrior]

Chapter 343 (DBZ 149), P7.4
Vegeta: “I’ve realized by watching your faint movements up to now…That you guys don’t seem as terrible as the rumors made out.”

A lot of people see this as proof that #19/#20 aren't on the level or not much stronger than the SSJ's from 3 years prior, but I think there's more than one interpretation to be made from that quote.

Let's see... Trunks says that a terrifying pair will arrive in 3 years with unimaginable power that ends up massacring all of the Z warriors. He also says they are above him.

I think what Vegeta had in mind of the androids power was that given all that's been said about them, he thought the duo would put up quite the fight against them regardless how much they trained. So of course he'd believe they didn't live up to the hype if the best that they can muster against him was a clean punch that only managed to draw a little blood from his lip, especially with how eager he was to wanting to fight them himself to the point of threatening Bulma if she went with her plan during the mecha freeza arc. This is also exemplified by his skepticism towards #18 and #17's power, showing he developed a bias towards androids in general after fighting the previous two for wasting his time.

As for Piccolo, I see his statement as him looking at the situation from a wider perspective in that they simply trained too much for these androids based on the fact that they aren't getting killed by them. Vegeta on the other hand being the arrogant douchbag decided to talk shit based on the feat they pulled off against him. His expectations are more narrow and probably isn't taking account into the fact that they simply became too strong for these androids. I think Vegeta treating Trunks as the main benchmark for these androids is kind of a stretch imo.

All in all, the rumors weren't simply that the androids were above Trunks, but that they would also kill all the Z warriors in due time. Nothing about Vegeta's statement prevents the fake androids from being considerably stronger than the displayed power of Goku and Trunks in the mecha arc.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

That's one good analysis, FW. I agree with almost everything, if not everything you said.

How strong you think 19 and 20 were compared to Mecha Arc Goku and Trunks?

 

[Future Warrior]

I think Initial 19 and 20 being the equivalent of mecha arc SSJ Trunks and Goku fits in quite conveniently, and both being above even that after absorbing some energy.

 

[p123]

Exactly what I've been trying to get across to everyone. Everyone thinks if 19/20 are anywhere decently above Trunks, then the rumors not being true wouldn't make sense. This couldn't be further from the truth.

They are sold as unstoppable androids that they can't beat. Surely coming in with piss poor power in comparison would alter their view.

The biggest takeaway is that the androids couldn't possibly be the real ones if the Z Team hadn't become strong enough for it to be a suggestion...

Sick Goku ~ Post Absorption Androids > Yardrat Goku ~ Pre Absorption Androids

That's the easiest way to put it.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

In my opinion they are half of Freeza level at best.

 

[p123]

Your opinion is wrong. 19 does pretty damn well against Sick Goku, who is above Yardrat Goku. Freeza couldn't even dream being this effective against Sick Goku. He'd be one shot killed if plot armor was removed.

 

[ahill1]

That's a fair analysis, FW. I respect it, but I don't think Vegeta would think the androids would put up a fight against them regardless of how much they trained or improved. Vegeta knew that the Z warriors who were killed by the androids in the future were ones without the necessary training to face the situation since they obviously wouldn't know about the upcoming threat, so in Vegeta's mind them being driven up to become strong enough to face those androids could surely make the difference regarding how easy they could beat the androids. Trunks merely implies that the androids' power would be too much for the unprepared Z warriors, but in face of the Z warriors with adequate training and preparation, that would still be an unkown. If #19 were way stronger than Trunks SSJ from three years ago but still no match for Vegeta, then (at least if I were Vegeta) the obvious conclusion to be taken from what we (the Z warriors) were told is that the training simply made the difference, since, as already stated, they were too strong and possessing unimaginable power from Trunks and the unprepared Z warriors' perspective. It can be different with the Z warriors now.

I take Vegeta confirming they aren't the real threat upon taking a punch to the face to mean basically that #19's strength complements his speed shown when he is moving. Since Vegeta hadn't been fighting against him and was merely judging him by his movements -- and then consequently his speed -- a showcase of strength would still be needed in order for Vegeta to see if the weight behind his punches matches his speed imo.

Piccolo even states that Vegeta has surpassed Goku and that he might be able to defeat them like he says, which to me implies the Z warriors weren't necessarily expecting a fight no matter what... they just knew the androids were considerably stronger than Trunks and the not-ready Z fighters, so if they ended up being considerably above Trunks (but still no match for the new improved warriors), then the conclusion that would naturally come to their minds wouldn't be that what they were told doesn't match their showcased strength -- because Trunks was merely comparing their strength from his perspective -- but that they simply got too strong. I think Piccolo's statement might basically mean that 20 is stronger than Trunks but not by an enough amout that he'd be sure he'd be as strong as predicted. Either that, or he might have looking upon things under a wider perspective like you said, since the language he used would imply he was talking about both androids and not simply one. But in that case, I would see Vegeta as the one with the opinion that would come naturally in the minds of whoever heard Trunks' description, and Piccolo's "did we grow too strong" was merely him putting into the table another explanation that could justify them being weaker than expected, in which case Piccolo expected that he himself beating up an android that could swiftly take out Trunks shouldn't happen this easily, hence maybe he has grown stronger than he has even realized. Dunno.

 

[p123]

Goku doesn't think he can win, he's just looking to go out with a fight, he wants to see how he could do. Nothing in the story suggests anyone on the Z Team feels they are going to easily beat the Androids. They are prepared for war.

Taking out Trunks from 3 years ago is not a feat.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

In my opinion they are half of Freeza level at best.

If you're willing to rewrite the plot as well so that it makes more sense, yes. I agree 19/20 should be nowhere near Freeza.

 

[ahill1]

Goku doesn't think he can win, he's just looking to go out with a fight, he wants to see how he could do. Nothing in the story suggests anyone on the Z Team feels they are going to easily beat the Androids. They are prepared for war.

Taking out Trunks from 3 years ago is not a feat.

I didn't say the Z warriors (mainly the ones with the strength... not Yamcha, Kuririn or Tenshinhan) were expecting to win. Reread my post and you will see I said that is still an unknown. Trunks outted the words "they are TOO strong...", which ought to mean they are just too strong for Trunks. If the Z warriors (like Piccolo) has surpassed Trunks, then they have a reason to be confident, since they filled the minimum requirement -- surpassing the one defeated --... but they still have a reason to feel uncomfortable (Piccolo's case) or not sure until they faced the threat (Goku's case), since Trunks wasn't clear on how much he was outclassed. The androids could be 1.3x above him or 3x above him. So, if Piccolo is 1.4x above Trunks he might feel confident on his own power, but still with an uneasy feeling, since they (the androids) might be 3x above Trunks... it's all an unknown.

But if they turned out to be considerably above Trunks and still no match for the new and strong Z warriors, I wouldn't expect them to say that what Trunks told doesn't match their strength... it does, since all Trunks basically said and implied was that the androids are above himself and Goku from three years ago. It'd just mean that the Z warriors now have the power to deal with a threat that was unmanageable for Trunks and Goku.

 

[p123]

Well, that's what I'm trying to get in your head. We do know how outclassed Trunks was. He was so outclassed that Yardrat Goku training for 3 years only gives him a little bit of hope. This seems like a concept you are unable to grasp...