Vegeta's [vs Jheese] power

[Male]

Jeice uses crusher ball to defeat Vegeta as Goku actually cared to dodge it. lol

 

[Boo Brand Milk]

Though I have no proof or any argument to back it up, I always thought this Vegeta zenkaied to 60,000. Napgeta is a whole other animal.

 

[Papasmurf]

@Papasmurf - do you think Vegeta [vs Jheese] could already access his ~500k power level?

If he felt like it, sure, since he wasn't scared of first form Freeza at all a minute after waking up and I really doubt he got some revelation from the gods that his power randomly rose just from Freeza being in his presence.

The comment he says to Freeza is the same one he gives Jheese, too - I'm getting close to the Super Saiyan.

 

[sei'taer]

I've always put him stronger than ginyu there, but not too strong, that nap obviously has an effect.

 

[ahill1]

If he felt like it, sure, since he wasn't scared of first form Freeza at all a minute after waking up and I really doubt he got some revelation from the gods that his power randomly rose just from Freeza being in his presence.

The comment he says to Freeza is the same one he gives Jheese, too - I'm getting close to the Super Saiyan.

He seemed pretty scared, really.
http://mangafox.me/manga/dragon_ball/v25/c099/6.html
http://mangafox.me/manga/dragon_ball/v25/c100/7.html
Vegeta even said that becoming immortal was his only chance of defeating Freeza
http://mangafox.me/manga/dragon_ball/v25/c099/12.html
Later, after Vegeta vs Freeza scuffle, Kuririn said it's like Vegeta broke through another ceiling of power, which implies Vegeta [vs Freeza] >> Vegeta [vs Jheese].
http://mangafox.me/manga/dragon_ball/v25/c101/14.html

 

[Papasmurf]

He was scared when Freeza first powered up, but when Freeza made that comment about eliminating them all Vegeta immediately recanted his concerns, so I just think it's Vegeta's character that makes him nervous against Freeza - similar to his post-zenkai self against 4th form Freeza where he was intimidated despite thinking he was a Super Saiyan.

 

[ahill1]

Okay, but how about Vegeta saying his immortality was the only way to beat Freeza and Kuririn statement about Vegeta having broke another power ceiling?

 

[Goku9001]

Vegeta was perfectly analyzing all Goku's movements against the Ginyu Force and easily perceived his fluctuations in Ki, so Vegeta being at least ~60k seems logical.

 

[Papasmurf]

Okay, but how about Vegeta saying his immortality was the only way to beat Freeza and Kuririn statement about Vegeta having broke another power ceiling?

3 minutes later he was saying if he and the others teamed up they can beat Freeza even though he didn't know Gohan could raise his power to a million with rage or that Freezas transformation had such a boost, so I think he was just trying to sell the idea of him being immortal being their only way out. Plus, he always lied about not laying a hand on Kuririn and the others if he became immortal even though he thought to himself that after Freeza he'd kill them next.

As for the power ceiling thing, Vegeta simply suppressing his power against Jheese explains it imo. Plus, Vegeta had no opportunity to power up after waking up from the nap (that immortality statement is even made after napping) yet was instantly sure they could take Freeza when push came to shove, so I think he had those reserves for a while. Maybe he didn't realize it until he fought Jheese though.

 

[ahill1]

3 minutes later he was saying if he and the others teamed up they can beat Freeza even though he didn't know Gohan could raise his power to a million with rage or that Freezas transformation had such a boost, so I think he was just trying to sell the idea of him being immortal being their only way out. Plus, he always lied about not laying a hand on Kuririn and the others if he became immortal even though he thought to himself that after Freeza he'd kill them next.

Before facing Jheese, Vegeta pretty much treated Goku's and Ginyu's powers as above his, so saying he just realized he had powers rivaling 530k in questions of seconds when facing Jheese it's as odd as the other possibilitie imo.

 

[Papasmurf]

Well he did tell Jheese that he himself had only just realized that he's surpassed Saiyan limits and getting close to the Super Saiyan, so it seems like whether he got stronger from the nap or not (don't believe that personally), he didn't realize how much power his zenkai gave him until then. Plus, he knows Goku can just amplify his power at will with Kaioken.

 

[OmegaZ]

http://h.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/25-101.0/compressed/odragon_ball_z_v009-103.jpg
http://h.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/25-101.0/compressed/odragon_ball_z_v009-104.jpg

Based on how Vegeta was doing against Freeza, I think Vegeta's full power was somewhere around 300k to 400k at the time.

 

[ahill1]

That theory of Papasmurf is really an interesting one. I always thought Vegeta wasn't suppressed against Jheese, he was just using what he could at that time (a power level around 50k). The theory that he could already hit the 500k wall vs Jheese is a good one.

 

[Papasmurf]

Yeah, Vegeta had yet to tap into his full power when Freeza just arrived, he only did it in the struggle against him and didn't note some massive power boost he got from napping, so him suppressing against Jheese makes sense (at least moreso than him getting over 8x stronger from a nap).

 

[SSJ2]

I generally go with ~50,000 at the beginning of the fight, but when he tells Jheese to check the scouter, he hits 250,000.

 

[ahill1]

I think at the beginning of the fight 42k-44k seems to work better, considering he was visibly striggling against Jheese.

 

[Goku9001]

I think at the beginning of the fight 42k-44k seems to work better, considering he was visibly striggling against Jheese.

How does that make sense when Vegeta could easily perceive all of Goku's actions and give an in-depth analysis on everything ranging from the attack Goku used on Recoome (which Jeese and Burter's analysis of it was incorrect) to the fluctuation of Goku's Ki at every single moment?

Vegeta was easily above any of the Ginyu Force bar Ginyu upon receiving the Sensu bean and Goku acknowledged it as well.

 

[ahill1]

How does that make sense when Vegeta could easily perceive all of Goku's actions and give an in-depth analysis on everything ranging from the attack Goku used on Recoome (which Jeese and Burter's analysis of it was incorrect) to the fluctuation of Goku's Ki at every single moment?

Vegeta was easily above any of the Ginyu Force bar Ginyu upon receiving the Sensu bean and Goku acknowledged it as well.

I didn't say Vegeta wasn't above the Ginyu Force after recovering. Only saying he wasn't that above, considering Jheese defended his kick, later gave Vegeta trouble to defend his knee and spared with him for a while, even managing to land a punch on his face. Doesn't look like a fight with a 80/100 gap IMO.

 

[Goku9001]

I didn't say Vegeta wasn't above the Ginyu Force after recovering. Only saying he wasn't that above, considering Jheese defended his kick, later gave Vegeta trouble to defend his knee and spared with him for a while, even managing to land a punch on his face. Doesn't look like a fight with a 80/100 gap IMO.

The entire sequence implied that Vegeta's battle power was significantly higher than his with Vegeta even indicating that Jeese was scared of his battle-power because he knew he was outclassed and Jeese confirmed it by reacting to Vegeta's scouter reading in a similar fashion to how Dodoria reacted to Vegeta's scouter reading. The fight itself seemed relatively similar to Dodoria vs. Vegeta where Dodoria was completely frightened of Vegeta due to his superiority and we're shown here that this was the case.

 

[ahill1]

Well he did tell Jheese that he himself had only just realized that he's surpassed Saiyan limits and getting close to the Super Saiyan, so it seems like whether he got stronger from the nap or not (don't believe that personally), he didn't realize how much power his zenkai gave him until then. Plus, he knows Goku can just amplify his power at will with Kaioken.

Well now that I'm reading the quotes again, in the original line Vegeta didn't exactly say "I've realized it just now", he only said "the truth is that I've realized it too", so nothing of being some sort of realization only at that moment. Here's the quote:


Chapter: 289 (DBZ 95), P6.1-2
Context: after Jheese freaks out over Vegeta's new battle power
Vegeta: “That’s right…I’ve surpassed Saiyan limits, and my strength is still increasing more and more…The truth is that I’ve realized it too…That this extension of my power isn’t merely what you’d call giftedness…In other words…I’m steadily drawing near…to becoming a Super Saiyan!”


"I've surpassed Saiyan limits, and my strength is still increasing more and more..." - it really doesn't seem like he was referring to his past Zenkais, since besides having surpassed the Saiyan limits, he is still growing strong, implying something that's still happening.

Also, look at this:


http://mangafox.me/manga/dragon_ball/v25/c096/13.html

Vegeta: "I'll deal with you at my leisure once Freeza is finished! By then, after all, I'll be a Super Saiyan!"

The "I'll be a SS" definitely implies he is banking on the idea of still becoming stronger, unless he expects to gain a massive auto evolution recovering from a near death experience in the middle of Freeza's fight.