Was Freeza's 2nd form meant to be final?

[Future Warrior]

You think Toriyama meant for Freeza's 2nd form to be his absolute last transformation? His 1st form looks just like a child version of his 2nd form, which makes sense when you realize that he uses it to suppress his power. From that point on the forms started looking vastly different from one another. Makes you wonder when Toriyama decided to have him transform a few more times.

Toriyama also made King Cold look identical to 2nd form, which is interesting to say the least.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Most likely. It wouldn't be hard to imagine Toriyama having come up with just the 2nd form, then realised the hole he'd dug himself in if Piccolo were to get his moment against Freeza whilst still needing Goku to arrive for the battle in order to fit with what he'd set up from the early events of the arc, meaning either Freeza had to reveal his transformation was far stronger than had been shown or that he had multiple forms. The latter route also meant he'd have more variation in what he drew, as well as be able to excuse his love for simplicity with Freeza's true form.

His 2nd form still works somewhat in retrospect when it could be considered from an in-universe perspective to be his tribute to his father or simply a similarity that manifested when creating the suppressed form.

 

[Future Warrior]

I think it's interesting how Freeza's suppressed states are far larger than his true form. I guess a larger figure was far easier to properly maintain that power until he could lower it to the point where he could shrink himself in his 1st form.

His 2nd form still works somewhat in retrospect when it could be considered from an in-universe perspective to be his tribute to his father or simply a similarity that manifested when creating the suppressed form.

Do you think it's possible that Toriyama had already come up with the idea of King Cold a lot earlier than we think, and came up with the design before Freeza revealed to have more transformations?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

At first, definitely. I don’t get the impression Freeza had more than one form most of the time on Namek by the way Zarbon tells Vegeta he can transform. His third form was made up right there so he could beat Piccolo, and apparently that was too hard for Toriyama to draw.

I think the relation to Cold was probably an afterthought on Toriyama’s part, and at best a reference to his initial idea of Freeza’s true form. In universe it’s probably something related to genetics since I doubt Freeza would actively bother to pay tribute to his father.

 

[SSJ2]

It seems odd that his father of the same race would have a different true form than himself. Where is the logic there? Unless King Cold was hiding 2 monstrous transformations (which would contradict Freeza being the strongest of the family), I'd have to think his 2nd Form was initially meant to be his final.

 

[Papasmurf]

It seems odd that his father of the same race would have a different true form than himself. Where is the logic there? Unless King Cold was hiding 2 monstrous transformations (which would contradict Freeza being the strongest of the family), I'd have to think his 2nd Form was initially meant to be his final.

King Cold was introduced like a year after 2nd form Freeza (and his later forms) though...

 

[SSJ2]

Perhaps the word initially was misused. Obviously the manga tells us that Freeza's forth form is his true form, but when we find out that his father has a completely different appearance, that doesn't make much sense. Why is Freeza unique to his race in having a different true form?

 

[Papasmurf]

By the time King Cold was even mentioned Freeza had already unveiled his fourth form, so I just think it's design laziness. Just like how all the new forms in Super are just palette swaps on Photoshop. 2

 

[withheldforprivacy]

In all three villains (Freeza, Cell, Buu), AT followed the same logic...
-The first form does not look so threatening ('Don't judge by appearance' cliche).
-The second form looks like a generic horror movie monster. (In Buu's case, I'll treat Super Buu as the second form, since Grey Buu was so short lived.)
-In a need to make Goku the hero again (Piccolo couldn't beat 2nd Form Freeza, Vegeta couldn't beat 2nd Form Cell, Gohan couldn't beat 2nd Form Buu), he sloppily gives them one or more additional forms, the final form always being a return to the same cliche as the first form.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Do you think it's possible that Toriyama had already come up with the idea of King Cold a lot earlier than we think, and came up with the design before Freeza revealed to have more transformations?

It's a possibility, though I'd see it as far more likely that he drew inspiration from 2nd form Freeza when designing Cold, seeing as the start of the Cell Arc was the context for when he confirmed he'd often improvise the next stage of the story.

It seems odd that his father of the same race would have a different true form than himself. Where is the logic there? Unless King Cold was hiding 2 monstrous transformations (which would contradict Freeza being the strongest of the family), I'd have to think his 2nd Form was initially meant to be his final.

It's most likely in-universe that Freeza modelled the appearance of his 2nd form on his father rather than it being the appearance of their 2nd form amongst the entire race. Super also somewhat supports this with Frost never showing the form.

 

[Future Warrior]

If I had to guess, I think Toriyama just thought Freeza's 2nd form would be a good design choice for someone as large as King Cold while simultaneously being enough to visually identify him as being the same race as him. No reason to think Freeza's race can't come in a variety of proportions and sizes, like how Toyotaro depicted the Yardrats in the DBS Manga.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Worth pointing out Toriyama likes to make big characters weak as well, so it makes sense he’d use Freeza’s largest form as a model for Cold.

I agree with FW that they can probably come in different appearences. Drawing from other sources, Coola isn’t exactly a carbon copy of Freeza, Chilled looks more like 1st form Freeza than anything, Kuriza and Frost do look like Freeza’s true form…

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

An interview of Toriyama about Freeza transformations.

Q: "From the midpoint onward, it became routine for the enemies to transform."

AT: "It all started with Freeza. I didn’t start out with any plans to have him transform of course, but midway through I thought it might be cool to make it look like a bluff and then have him transform for real. Probably at that point I also thought of giving him a sleek design in the end. I’m in the habit of giving characters progressively more complex and tough-looking forms, then finally making them really sleek. After all, it’s awful drawing them once they get all complex. (laughs) Complex guys are terrible when you have to draw them for weeks on end… Cell was a ton of work, with those darn spots of his." (laughs)

Q: "It was really shocking when Freeza revealed he could transform three times."

AT: "I hadn’t planned on that either. (laughs) I was like “That’s kind of a lot; I should’ve just had him say ‘two times’ instead.” (laughs)

Q: "So is that why Freeza’s third form, the most complex of all, transforms again so quickly…?"

AT: "… Yeah. I figured I should have him make his exit as soon as possible." (laughs)

https://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/dragon-ball-super-history-book-akira-toriyama-interview/